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Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by mehrdada on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:33PM (#21775424)
The carriers have the same data for dumbphones as well as smartphones, and I bet Verizon and AT&T are much more cooperative than Google and Apple with blanket requests.

If you care about that stuff, you should abandon carrying a phone--switching away from a smartphone is probably useless if not counterproductive.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:53PM (#21775643)
> The carriers have the same data for dumbphones as well as smartphones

This is true. But I'm not a privacy absolutist. I'm willing to sacrifice privacy for some things, and having a phone is one of those things.

But that I'm willing to put up with that from one company in no way means that I'm willing to put up with that from other companies.

> switching away from a smartphone is probably useless if not counterproductive.

I don't see how -- can you explain? Reducing data leakage seems useful even if I'm not completely eliminating it, and I don't see how it's actively counterproductive at all.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by mehrdada on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:00PM (#21775718)
> I don't see how -- can you explain?

There is a large amount of $$$ that goes into security of iOS and iPhone (sometimes orthogonal to privacy, sometimes not) that does not go into a dumbphone. The iPhone is also much more scrutinized and researched into than a random dumbphone, so it is plausible that you get much more exposure to exploits, etc., using a dumbphone that does not get updates etc.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by chipperyman573 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:02PM (#21775741)
On the other hand, China is known to have and use ios zero days (souce: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/09/massive_iphon...). It's likely other countries have these as well.

It seems unlikely they put the same efforts into finding a zero day for a nokia. There might be a super easy to find zero-day though, like you're saying.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by BoorishBears on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:36PM (#21776146)
If it's anything like the old days, they don't need to horde a 0 day.

There were always obscure pieces of software that would pull your forgotten pin right off the device with the right secret code, in which case you have full access to the device.

I'd also expect them to be vulnerable to much simpler attacks like just reading flash chips directly

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by sangnoir on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:55PM (#21776972)
> On the other hand, China is known to have and use ios zero days

What's your threat-model? If your adversary is a nation-state on par with China, you're probably toast unless you have a well-resourced entity supporting you (think large corporate or another nation-state)

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by xenospn on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:17PM (#21775941)
I would argue that it’s much more likely they’d try to get a person of interest to use a compromised “burner” phone, actually.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by scarface74 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @08:45PM (#21778438)
I’m much less worry about China having my information than the local justice system.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:46PM (#21777433)
But the majority of that security is required due to the vulnerabilities that come with the smart part of smartphones. A dumb phone has a much smaller attack surface. If I use the phone solely for texting and the occasional tethering and phone call, my exposure is automatically seriously reduced.

The dumb phone has no access to the pocket computer, after all.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by raxxorrax on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:32AM (#21780029)
Unlikely. Dumbphones aren't interesting targets and configurations are vastly more heterogeneous. Finding exploits can be a huge amount of work.

edit: In a laboratory environment, it is probably easier to break into a dumbphone vs breaking into an iPhone, yes.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by mindslight on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:12PM (#21776529)
A "smart" phone lets you use software with better protocols than the government approved (designed) cell network. For example, turn off your cell radio but still using a messaging app (eg Matrix/XMPP) over open wifi (rotating macaddrs of course), instead of having to connect to cell towers to receive text messages.

I can't tell you which results in better opsec today for say carrying out government-disapproved commerce. But I can tell you that the privacy benefits of having a bona fide computer that you control in your pocket will continue to grow, while the cell network is stuck being forever subservient to government/commercial surveillance.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by roywiggins on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:41PM (#21776840)
I can't run Signal on a dumbphone, and protecting my data seems more important than my metadata.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:50PM (#21777472)
I wouldn't be using the dumbphone for that sort of thing. I'd be using the pocket computer.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by roywiggins on Thursday December 12, 2019 @08:04PM (#21778219)
That's reasonable. A bit cumbersome, but not too bad. It's a shame the Windows client for Signal is an Electron app, which may or may not run well on a small machine.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by boring_twenties on Friday December 13, 2019 @12:54AM (#21779420)
Imagine being concerned about privacy to the point of building your own pocket computer to carry instead of a smartphone, and then installing Windows on it. I can't even stop laughing at this
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by mkhpalm on Friday December 13, 2019 @01:39AM (#21779598)
> and I bet Verizon and AT&T are much more cooperative than Google and Apple with blanket requests.

I'm always confused by statements like this. What makes you think Google and Apple are any different in willingness than Verizon and AT&T? Or what makes anybody think any of them even have a choice turning over data on their users?

What do people think other people do when some law enforcement agencies show up on their doorsteps with warrants?

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by mehrdada on Friday December 13, 2019 @02:56AM (#21779878)
Because their business models and strategic positioning are different? If you are already packaging and selling a database during the course of your day to day business as carriers and credit card companies do, are part of an oligopoly leaving customers no choice, you don’t lose much by disclosing everything indiscriminately to law enforcement. If you peddle privacy in your ads and have a worldwide audience as opposed to US-only, you may have some interest in actually bothering to check a warrant for basic validity at very least, for example (even if it is just for show and marketing; this argument does not presume any sort of moral superiority, although I do personally believe that companies are not all created equal on that dimension either).

Also, empirically, I trust Apple and Google to keep data more secure from hackers than AT&T.

(I was also careful to use “blanket” requests as opposed to warrant in my original post)

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by rriepe on Friday December 13, 2019 @02:52AM (#21779872)
Tech companies are inherently better at public relations because they're closer to the consumer. Plenty of people think tech companies are just somehow different when it comes to corporate morality.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by keiferski on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:41PM (#21775508)
An old iPod touch/tablet with WiFi might be a sufficient replacement.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:54PM (#21775657)
I'm not a fan of the Apple ecosystem, so that doesn't work for me specifically. But I am going to carry a pocket computer that doesn't have cellphone capabilities to replace what I use a smartphone for. And it will be running ordinary Linux, not Android.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by christefano on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:49PM (#21776284)
I’m curious, as well, what Linux flavor you’re planning to use. I’ve been considering loading Maru¹ on to an old Nexus 5X, and I wonder if that’s what you have planned, too.

There’s just something about running LineageOS on an old Galaxy Tab 2 (still Android, although apparently the hardware support is phenomenal) that has me trawling eBay for cheap tablets.

¹ https://maruos.com/

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:39PM (#21777362)
Well, I'm undecided. Since I'm beginning the process of shifting my machines from Linux to BSD, my inclination is to use BSD if I can. If there's a showstopper there, then I'll go with Debian.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by abawany on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:00PM (#21776406)
Same for a Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 for me. Works very well though I believe LineageOS has abandoned updates for the device. Battery replacements take minutes to do as well.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by dredmorbius on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:10PM (#21776506)
Purism and Pine are looking interesting.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by purgatio on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:20PM (#21775981)
That is intriguing. 95% of my phone utilization could be replaced by a disconnected pocket computer that syncs wikipedia / email / news every morning.

Come to think of it, would an iphone with the cellular network disabled do?

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by macNchz on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:15PM (#21777148)
Indeed a smartphone with no sim card is ideal for what's being discussed here, because even without a cell plan it can call 911.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by jascii on Thursday December 12, 2019 @06:42PM (#21777767)
Keep in mind though that even without a SIM location data will still be accessible/stored by the network providers through the devices IMEI number.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by jkaplowitz on Thursday December 12, 2019 @09:11PM (#21778580)
Maybe a good fix for this edge-case scenario would be an optional feature to normally refrain from connecting to the networks (i.e. airplane mode) but to override that and connect straightaway when an emergency call is placed?
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by jki275 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @09:56PM (#21778768)
I believe if you’ve turned off the phone radio (airplane mode), that should not be the case.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by jascii on Friday December 13, 2019 @10:43AM (#21782507)
This would be true assuming the phone has not previously been compromised. Not a safe assumption considering baseband backdoors have been found in the wild and are suspected to be fairly wide spread. https://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/wiki/Samsung...
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by HeWhoLurksLate on Friday December 13, 2019 @10:59AM (#21782681)
Airplane mode
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:49PM (#21777453)
This is true -- and if you're happy with Android or iOS, then that's probably the best recommendation. But I don't use iOS, and a big part of the appeal of this for me is to be able to stop using Android.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by Diederich on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:57PM (#21775691)
Cool; can you share which one you're thinking about using? Thanks.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:40PM (#21777365)
I'm building my own.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by boring_twenties on Friday December 13, 2019 @12:49AM (#21779395)
Don't leave us hanging like that, bro. Are you going to start with a generic ARM dev board, or what?
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Friday December 13, 2019 @12:14PM (#21783390)
The prototype I have breadboarded up uses an ARM dev board (I'm keeping close to the chip that R-Pis use, so I can leverage that existing code), but the end product will be a PCB of my own design.

Once I've completed the project, it's very likely that I'll write it up on one of my websites. I'll submit the link to HN at that time so everyone can see what I've done.

The short and sweet, it's an ARM-based micro, with WiFi, Bluetooth, a couple of USB ports and an HDMI output (to use with a HUD that I have). It will have an old-school color 4-inch LCD with resistive touch for its screen (not ideal, but the best I can do right now. I'll work on upgrading that to an OLED w/capactive touch in version 2). It will also have 8 physical buttons, because I like physical buttons. It will be in a 3D printed case. The total size will be roughly the same as an average thin smartphone, but will be a mm or two thicker.

It will link up with my watch, which will be the primary way I interact with it on a daily basis. My goal is that 90% of the time I won't need to actually handle the device itself.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by boring_twenties on Friday December 13, 2019 @01:54PM (#21784273)
Sounds awesome, looking forward to your future post!

Are you using an existing smartwatch or building something yourself there too?

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Friday December 13, 2019 @04:26PM (#21785677)
Right now, I'm using a Pebble, but I think that watch doesn't have too many years left in it, so I've been looking at building a new one. That's a future project, though.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by boring_twenties on Saturday December 14, 2019 @06:41PM (#21793200)
Inspiring, I hope to read future details of your progress!
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by SirLotsaLocks on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:18PM (#21775958)
out of curiosity, which pocket computer are you going with? I have been interested in this idea as well.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by thebean11 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:11PM (#21777116)
Is it though? Pretty hard to live without mobile data, let alone texting and calling outside of a WiFi hotspot
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:42PM (#21777390)
It depends on your needs. Right now, I use very nearly zero mobile data with my smartphone -- 99.9% of the time, if I need internet access then I'm within range of a WiFi AP I can use. Texting and phone calls, as well as mobile data, can be done with a feature phone that allows tethering.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by fwip on Thursday December 12, 2019 @09:57PM (#21778776)
Won't the cops just track you by your feature phone location?
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by JohnFen on Friday December 13, 2019 @12:17PM (#21783423)
If they want to, sure. But that's not a threat vector that I'm really worried about -- and should that be a concern for some reason, I can always yank the battery.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by OrgNet on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:16PM (#21777160)
if you turn WiFi and bluetooth OFF, you might be ok... otherwise your location can still be tracked.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by twistiti on Thursday December 12, 2019 @06:27PM (#21777675)
Modern smartphones keep recording WiFi access points even when you toggle WiFi off.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by boring_twenties on Friday December 13, 2019 @12:51AM (#21779403)
That's a setting that can be disabled in Android (assuming they're not straight up lying of course), it even asks you about it during initial device setup, separately from enabling location services in general.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by znhll on Thursday December 12, 2019 @07:20PM (#21777984)
I still waiting for a non-Android phone with a physical radio cut-off switch, and removable battery... not holding my breath though :(
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by drewbug on Thursday December 12, 2019 @07:57PM (#21778192)
Librem 5?
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by Spooky23 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:11PM (#21777111)
Seriously. Carriers have been selling tower data since the late 90s.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by everdrive on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:02PM (#21776425)
If you mean GSM information it's not quite the same. You can also easily power most non-smartphones off, meaning they won't communicate with the tower.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by mehrdada on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:07PM (#21776475)
You can theoretically turn off your iPhone easily as well. Unless your dumbphone has a removable battery it would be just as difficult to trust it's actually off than a modern phone. But sure, removable battery would be an advantage on that dimension, I agree.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by grmn on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:13PM (#21776536)
It's a hassle but you can carry the turned-off phone in a small metal box. Feels bad but should work.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by reaperducer on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:22PM (#21776623)
There was a story on HN a while ago about municipal workers putting their phones in potato chip bags so they couldn't be tracked. Apparently it worked.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by est31 on Friday December 13, 2019 @01:21AM (#21779520)
They do have location data but their resolution is much more coarse than Google's, especially in areas with a low cell tower density (rural areas)
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by pinkfoot on Friday December 13, 2019 @01:28AM (#21779553)
Rural location accuracy on GSM and UMTS networks is < 500m for 80% of attempts.

Source: it was one of my less-unsuccessful projects :)

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by giancarlostoro on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:37PM (#21775454)
Or own a "burner" type of phone with minimal data about yourself.

Alternatively what RMS does is he shuts off his phone and only turns it on when he needs to use it.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by bilbo0s on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:50PM (#21775615)
Burner phones have a lot more info about you than people think.

Or at least I know that in one court case there was a nice big 8x10 of the defendant purchasing a burner phone. Apparently a lot of Point of Sale systems, especially where they sell burner phones, are wired to take a nice portrait of you when you purchase. I didn't know that at the time, and apparently, neither did the defendant.

That, combined with the location of his phone matching the location of his license plate around town did him in.

So if you try the burner phone thing, someone else has to buy it, and you should never take it with you to places where there are likely to be security cameras. And you also might want to refrain from driving with it in your vehicle.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by jmpman on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:56PM (#21775681)
Not sure if I want to live my life like I’m planning a bank robbery at any minute. Seems more effective to petition your representative to restrict use of this data.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by shoes_for_thee on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:48PM (#21776895)
the fucked up part is that the government is apparently living their life as if you're planning a bank robbery any minute.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by ColanR on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:11PM (#21775859)
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much difference between that and just trying to enjoy a modicum of privacy.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by a1369209993 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:44PM (#21776861)
Well the assumption when proposing a plan is that we want the plan to actually accomplish something. If we don't care about effectiveness, then "ignore the problem and hope it goes away" is clearly the best option.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by heavyset_go on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:51PM (#21776294)
If you're being targeted by the government, this is something you should be aware of. Using today's convenient tech can get you locked up or killed.

However, if state persecution isn't part of your threat model, a burner is one layer of indirection that might make tracking and identification difficult for surveillance companies.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by ghostpepper on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:44PM (#21775553)
If Edward Snowden is to be believed then you can only be sure your phone is truly off when the battery is out.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by bdamm on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:52PM (#21775633)
Yes, sadly phones with removable batteries seem to be antiques now.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by abawany on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:02PM (#21776423)
There are still plenty of slightly-used phones with removable batteries that work quite well. Galaxy Note 3 and 4 (possibly 5?) for a start. I recently got a Moto E5 brand new and it too has a removable battery.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by a1369209993 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:40PM (#21776825)
Not even then; many electronic devices (PCs, for example!) have coin-cell backup batterys or large capacitors to keep RTCs and the like running during a battery replacement (or mains power outage).
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by im3w1l on Friday December 13, 2019 @01:41AM (#21779607)
Since radio and gps use a lot of battery, I wonder if a coincell could really power them.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by a1369209993 on Friday December 13, 2019 @08:34PM (#21787195)
You don't actually need to transmit the data off a backup battery, just store it and ship it out once a proper power supply is reattached. (You lose the data if someone destroys their phone, but that's a much narrower range of scenarios than "turn it off, but for real".) I don't recall GPS recievers being particularly power-intensive, but there's plenty of other sensors to log, most notably the microphone.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by im3w1l on Saturday December 14, 2019 @02:51AM (#21788362)
You don't use your phone for navigation a lot do you? It drains the battery very quickly.

I mentioned radio, because wifi / cell tower triangulation can be used to infer location.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by landcoctos on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:43PM (#21775541)
If you take this "burner" to your home or place of work it would be trivial to identify the owner.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by giancarlostoro on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:06PM (#21775792)
People with burners would have strict rules like keeping the battery disconnect except for when they actually need said phone.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by zelly on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:55PM (#21777518)
RMS doesn't even have a phone. He asks other people to use their phones if he has to make a call.

He also only browses the internet by emailing himself text/HTML from a remote server.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by vms20591 on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:22AM (#21779975)
It would be naive to think that Google, Apple, Twitter, Facebook would be less cooperative. Remember, these are profit making entities. You don't pay them enough to defend you to death (also, thinking you could pay so, would be a fool's errand). So, when its business or you, then you are going under the bus.

We can protest all we want and these entities would be ready with their PR script, about how they value their users, blah, blah, blah. Because, they know, at the end of the day, users are going to come back to them, use their platform to protest.

Unless there is a mass exodus towards p2p & decentralized network, these entities aren't going to budge, not an inch!

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by StanislavPetrov on Thursday December 12, 2019 @05:00PM (#21777021)
The carriers have your location data on a dumbphone - only the carriers (certainly not Google) - and that's all the data they have. In addition, I can take the battery out of my dumb phone any time and all their ability to track my location goes away. My dumb phone doesn't have apps and doesn't have wi-fi, which means my data isn't being harvested by every company with an app and every passing wi-fi hotspot. Certainly you'd do better not to carry a phone at all but its just wrong to claim that "the same data" is available (and being broadcast) by your dumb phone.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by trianglem on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:31AM (#21780026)
It’s much harder to tie a burner to a person than a smartphone with a plan and internet usage records.
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by MertsA on Friday December 13, 2019 @04:35AM (#21780298)
On the contrary, if you're looking at a particular individual and devoting attention to it then it's generally pretty easy to identify someone based on a detailed record of their location.

Case and point, if you've enabled location history for your Google account you can take a look at your own history and see for yourself just how easy it would be to identify someone given the power to subpoena surveillance footage, vehicle registration records, driver's licenses, etc. For my own data for the month of November right off the bat I walked to a nearby McDonald's and paid with a debit card. Even if they didn't have surveillance footage from all of the cameras in the restaurant they still have financial records of the small number of orders that were placed soon after I walked into the restaurant, that combined with the driver's license addresses and vehicle registration records in close proximity to my house would almost immediately identify me. Even just looking at where someone lives is enough to narrow it down to a tiny list of candidates and for >90% of citizens they are going to be on some record as having that address. In short, tax returns generally indicate where you live, as well as specifically state if any dependents that you claim also live with you. Then there's utilities which are just about impossible to avoid, then there's property records which don't need any subpoena as it's literally public records posted on a searchable website for most (all?) of the country. Voter registration data would also tie an individual to an address. USPS, UPS, and Fedex would be another easy way to come up with candidates, the list goes on and on but unless you're homeless you're going to be on a list somewhere. The next day after the McDonalds I drove to WalMart, where I again made purchases with a debit card and walked around in plain view of a plethora of surveillance cameras and again, just from the time of arrival and the time of departure you can narrow down the list of candidates to a relatively small list and I highly doubt any of my immediate neighbors also went to WalMart at the same time as me and left that WalMart at the same time as me. Also even if WalMart did not cooperate with any subpoena or if I paid in cash, it's not uncommon for private companies to drive around with a license plate reader through parking lots cataloging which license plates are present at a location for the purposes of selling that data to repossession companies looking for cars. I drove to that WalMart in a car registered in my name. After that there's a very obvious pattern indicating where I work and when. The company I work for files payroll taxes, none of my coworkers live anywhere near me, assuming it's just less precise positional estimates that a phone company would have for E911 purposes maybe they'd need to also look at the surrounding businesses as well but still, end of the day I think it's highly unlikely that my neighbors right by my house happen to also work right beside my employer. Right after that I travelled to one of our branch offices which would very strongly imply that I work at my specific employer and not the one in the adjacent unit. After that there's more visiting restaurants and gas stations and paying via a debit card as well as visiting my parents house. That's all in the span of a single week. Even with just a coarse history of the location of my phone it's absolutely trivial to identify me specifically. In fact, just off of the property records alone and some public records to determine employment history and family relationships I'd bet it'd be relatively easy enough to identify me by name even ignoring all of the different areas where police could simply subpoena payment records or surveillance footage.

Location data, even coarse location data, is definitely enough to identify almost everyone if you're in a position to correlate that with additional records. Unless you have your burner phone turned off almost all of the time, it really doesn't matter if the phone provider doesn't have your name, there's so many other sources.

Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by randyrand on Thursday December 12, 2019 @08:06PM (#21778231)
Not nearly as high accurate as GPS
Re:Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ... by scarface74 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @08:44PM (#21778425)
Dumb phones have had reliable and accurate GPS since at least 2004-2005.