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Re:Something Changed at Tesla by _Microft on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @05:34PM (#21652833)
The design is a statement, it's even a declaration of war.

I think they are targeting people who do not care for environmental issues and who still think that electric vehicles are something for beaus and weaklings. If these people can't be convinced to transition to EVs for ecological reasons, just give them another reason. It doesn't matter why they drive EVs, just that they do. (Well, and to give other car companies a kick in the butt in this market segment).

It is a design you can't ignore, it looks metal af and no matter what your pickup currently looks like, it will appear wimpy next to it.

Also observe that it no longer sports a Tesla logo. The teaser image [0] that Musk posted before still had one. There is none on the inside either, as far as I could tell, so maybe they are moving the Cybertruck away from the Tesla brand. The presentation was on SpaceX' premises as well, if I remember correctly. (Compare that to Zuckerberg who thinks that Facebook isn't credited enough for the success of its daughter platforms WhatsApp and Instagram and is moving them closer to the (imo) toxic brand of Facebook).

[0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1106714774694297601

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by jv22222 on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:16AM (#21654770)
Just thinking out loud:

I wonder if people are underestimating how much the design was driven by the fact it was fun to make something that looked like it was from Blade Runner.

Maybe the whole thing started out as “Let’s make something shit cool like a blade runner cop car” and then the idea that it would bring down production costs, look different, etc, developed after they designed something that they really liked.

Elon seems to be quite motivated by having fun, one of the things I like about him.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by mushufasa on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:37AM (#21654848)
I feel like the design process went like:

Elon: wow, stainless steel is an underrated material, it solved my starship rocket design problems. and it's cheap!

January 2019 (https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a25953663/elo...)

Elon: what if I used stainless steel for cars?

Elon: well there was the delorean, and blade runner...

Elon: you've got 6 months team.

(note there was no need for a dialogue partner)

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by tobib on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @05:53PM (#21652971)
> I think they are targeting people who do not care for environmental issues and who still think that electric vehicles are something for beaus and weaklings. If they can't be convinced to transition to EVs for ecological reasons, give them another reason because it doesn't matter why they drive EVs, just that they do

This actually opened my eyes, I haven't thought about it that way

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by firethief on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:12PM (#21653116)
Exactly. Nothing has changed at Tesla: their plan has never been to release model after model that cannibalize their business in the the electric-car-driver milieu; they aim to eat the classic demographics, one by one. For this niche, they broke out of their box and embraced a different aesthetic. Striving for that meant there was a lot they couldn't reuse--even the strength of their brand--but it's the most important niche by a longshot. It gets its own box.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by Waterluvian on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:38PM (#21653276)
If this is indeed their thinking then cybertruck is a terrible name in my opinion. It's far too nerdy for the anti-environmentalism manly man who cares about wimpiness.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by jopsen on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:30AM (#21654825)
Cybertruck isn't nerdy, cyber-anything always sounds wrong to me.

Do nerds call the web cyperspace?

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by generatorguy on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:43AM (#21654880)
When anybody calls anything cyber-whatever it used to be a red flag that they were probably clueless. Unfortunately cyber security has become a de facto term in industrial control networks.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by eitland on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:53AM (#21654926)
Only seen it used in a useful way when discussing legal matters.

That said, at least around here military seems to have adopted it which might give the name a boost with parts of the truck buying demographic?

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by needToCrust on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @09:56PM (#21654268)
“... no matter what your pickup currently looks like, it will appear wimpy next to it.”

I have to disagree. That is your opinion not a fact. I think it looks like someone who just started out at whittling tried to make a Delorean and used the result as the design for the “truck”. Personally, I think the tesla “truck” looks wimpy. I’m really disappointed by it.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by UnFleshedOne on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:57PM (#21659100)
I agree, any existing truck of comparable size (aside from actual working trucks with wheels bigger that whole F350), looks wimpy next to tesla's truck. Like an office cowboy with $500 tastefully torn jeans and designer fleece shirt next to a coal miner at the end of his shift.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by needToCrust on Thursday November 28, 2019 @04:25PM (#21660291)
That’s good for you? But it doesn’t matter. The comment I was replying to implied that its/your view was a fact.

By replying with my point of view I’m proving that is not a fact.

By replying with your point of view... I actually don’t know why you replied. Why did you?

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by UnFleshedOne on Thursday November 28, 2019 @04:47PM (#21660395)
I tried to arrive at a stricter definition of whimpiness by throwing another analogy into the mix.

Of course matter of taste is entirely subjective, but that shouldn't stop us from making fun of it when warranted. Or even when not, such unimportant distinctions shouldn't be taken seriously.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by eitland on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:56AM (#21654941)
Here's another user who thinks it looks awesome.

Most people I've heard however thinks it looks weird.

Importantly however none of those others I talked to ever owned a pickup truck or even talked about wanting one... :-)

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by needToCrust on Thursday November 28, 2019 @08:53AM (#21657327)
I’m not sure how your anecdote is important.

You could have no friends, and only talk to the crazy guy that hangs out by the liquor store.

You could work at a senior center so most the people you talk to aren’t allowed to drive, but hate new fangled technology.

Or...

You could have a horrible sample size of anecdotal evidence (which is horrible evidence itself) to draw any reasonable conclusion.

:-)

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by gddvhy on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:22PM (#21654360)
And thus PR strategy may work. To give this truck's toughness credibility, they need to "leak" a few videos how this electric truck easily outperforms military Hummers in Utah mountains. In addition to that, they can shoot this truck with ak47 and say that thanks to its steel frame, none of the bullets went thru, while the supposedly tough Hummers and died pickups look like a cardboard target now. After this, the cybertrucks toughness will be undisputable.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by steve19 on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:28AM (#21654815)
It can resist low powered 9mm bullets. It won't even come close to resisting a rifle round. So minimally more protection than any other vehicle.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by clouddrover on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:46AM (#21654897)
Maybe. BMW's new armored car is rated at Vehicle Resistance 6, which means it can withstand fire from an AK-47 among other things (such as lightly thrown metal balls):

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/armored-car-bulletproof-ca...

Mercedes does an armored car rated at VR10:

https://www.motor1.com/news/61225/mercedes-maybach-s600-guar...

So let's see what the Cybertruck's VR rating is in a couple of years.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by imtringued on Thursday November 28, 2019 @07:04AM (#21656598)
When I'm thinking of armored vehicles I'm thinking of at least 7mm steel to protect against machine guns and even that is paper thin! I got taken down too many times in War Thunder...
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by chrisdirkis on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:34AM (#21654841)
What would framing it as a "leak" do for Tesla, vs just doing those videos/tests as a branded marketing stunt? I'm not sure what the obfuscation gets Tesla. Like, oh no, we didn't intend you guys to see our truck being awesome?
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by eitland on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:48AM (#21654904)
In case they had to change something at a late stage.

If the videos were official they'd catch more negative press for it.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by paganel on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @05:53PM (#21652974)
> it's even a declaration of war.

Yeah, it is a declaration of war against pedestrians. Thankfully this thing will never catch on here in Europe and I'll continue being safe while crossing the street.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by throwaway07Ju19 on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:01PM (#21653035)
IIRC there is a regulation in the US that ensures the front of a car is designed so that a pedestrian is thrown over the car instead of under it. It is one reason so many new cars look alike.

Does a truck have any such requirements for pedestrian safety ? Is the highest part of the Cyber truck's front end any lower than a F-150 for example ? That could make for a safer design.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by nordsieck on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @07:37PM (#21653681)
> Is the highest part of the Cyber truck's front end any lower than a F-150 for example ?

They look like they're the same height, although it's a bit difficult to compare. The top of the F150's grill does look a bit more curved; not sure how much of a difference that makes.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1198751258384818176

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by _Microft on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @05:58PM (#21653014)
I agree. The edges look awfully dangerous for anything that's not another Cybertruck. I'm sure they are planning to build and sell them as often as possible but I wouldn't underestimate the butt-kicking idea that I mentioned. I think at least part of the goal is to make other companies produce electric pickups too.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by maratd on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:16PM (#21653143)
How is a Ford F150 safer for a pedestrian?
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by paganel on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:24PM (#21653191)
Because they're absent from most of Europe, because of their huge cylinder-volume the tax-related costs are pretty big in many European countries (there's only 2 F150s that I know of in the 2-million European capital I live in). This being an EV car will probably have close to no taxes attached to it so chances are some EV-enthusiasts will buy this instead of a Model 3 or Model S.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by donaltroddyn on Thursday November 28, 2019 @05:05AM (#21655980)
I live in Europe (Ireland) and F150s, Rangers, and other pickups are very common as work vehicles here. There's also a lot of 4x4s like Land Cruisers and Defenders with bull bars, which are presumably less safe for pedestrians.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by kortilla on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:34PM (#21653252)
Is that really a problem? Most of the pedestrian fear of trucks in europe is likely just fear of the unknown.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by smt88 on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:50AM (#21654910)
It's really a problem.

Fear of large cars is justified in Europe and anywhere else because they kill more pedestrians[1].

1. https://www.curbed.com/2018/9/27/17909270/pedestrian-deaths-...

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by paganel on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:48PM (#21653342)
I've had cars slightly touch me while I was crossing the street, but because they were generally small cars they were only touching my feet. Not at all a pleasant feeling but survivable. A truck, well, it would go straight for the belly/chest, a lot more vulnerable area.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by wil421 on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @11:21PM (#21654557)
There’s a much bigger problem if cars are touching you while you are walking than a big flat front end.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by aklemm on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @05:58PM (#21653015)
Hearing a lot made of this pedestrian problem. Are trucks more likely to hit pedestrians? I was not aware of big vehicles being more dangerous. Personally, I don’t want to get hit by any motorized metal no matter the size.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by smt88 on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:51AM (#21654915)
Big vehicles are more dangerous, obviously. They have more mass, so they hit people with more force.

https://www.curbed.com/2018/9/27/17909270/pedestrian-deaths-...

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by jorvi on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:06PM (#21653079)
Not necessarily, but hitting your body and especially your head on a sharp edge is much more dangerous than a flat or curved surface. Compare hitting your head on the edge (or even corner!) of a table vs. hitting it on the bottom of the table.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by nordsieck on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @05:57PM (#21653013)
> Yeah, it is a declaration of war against pedestrians. Thankfully this thing will never catch on here in Europe and I'll continue being safe while crossing the street.

Speed is what kills, not a slightly harder body.

Even the lightest car has enough mass that it's going to really hurt pedestrians if it hits one at speed.

And if any car - even this one - hits someone at 5 mph, it's not going to do that much damage.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by dragonwriter on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:09PM (#21653098)
> And if any car - even this one - hits someone at 5 mph, it's not going to do that much damage.

About 2% of auto or light truck vs. pedestrian collisions under 10mph produce severe injuries, and at all speeds light trucks are more dangerous than autos, so I think you are overgeneralizing here.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by kortilla on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @06:32PM (#21653247)
5mph != <10mph

> and at all speeds light trucks are more dangerous than autos,

Citation needed.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by paganel on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @05:59PM (#21653022)
There's a huge difference between hitting a pedestrian with a small hatchback at city speeds (which, in my congested city, means between 15 and 25 kph) and hitting it with a vehicle like this.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by leetcrew on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:01PM (#21654294)
why? the difference in mass between a small hatchback and a human is still an order of magnitude larger than the difference between the same car and a cybertruck. they are both so much heavier than the pedestrian that they should transfer about the same energy into the poor fellow.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by paganel on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:00AM (#21654703)
Because when a hatchback hits you chances are that you’d get thrown on its hood or windscreen, while when a truck hits you chances are you’d be thrown behind its weels. The first scenario gives you bigger chances of survival as a pedestrian. It’s not a question about mass, it’s about the shape of the car. Of course, this whole scenario applies to speeds generally met in cities/towns (maximum 30-40 kph).
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by imtringued on Thursday November 28, 2019 @07:12AM (#21656657)
There is a big difference between someone rolling over the hood of your sedan and hitting them with a huge "wall" of a pickup truck.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by oxplot on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @08:26PM (#21653899)
Tesla has always had somethings for those who do not care about environmental issues: looks (Tesla cars don't look like vacuum cleaners of the past), performance (fastest 0-100 of any sedan), technology (remote control, some self driving, OTA updates). In fact, the only way to appeal to general public is through these things. Environmental issues are just too hard to grasp in every day life, especially since their supposed effect are long into the future.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by SideburnsOfDoom on Thursday November 28, 2019 @03:54AM (#21655662)
> since their supposed effect are long into the future.

And in the near future. And in the present. and in the recent past.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by mamcx on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @07:12PM (#21653518)
> It is a design you can't ignore, it looks metal af and no matter what your pickup currently looks like, it will appear wimpy next to it.

With my brother we also speculate that this is the PERFECT car to personalize: Must be a blast to custom paint it.

Also:

If you have one, you will be (probably) the ONLY with it in the block. This alone will be a factor for some..

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by mycall on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @08:52PM (#21654023)
> If you have one, you will be (probably) the ONLY with it in the block.

Humvee market

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by ncmncm on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:15AM (#21654763)
True, the nice flat surfaces will be great for graffiti. Don't park it outside.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by flycaliguy on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @11:40PM (#21654622)
I think this vehicle is for the police eventually. This market is just the transition point.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by vector_rotcev on Thursday November 28, 2019 @06:12AM (#21656288)
Search for 'dubai cybertruck' and you'll already find reports of police forces ordering them. A long range, high-acceleration + high-speed utility vehicle that's marketed as very robust/bulletproof? Definitely.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by senectus1 on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @08:26PM (#21653902)
I suspect that it should be cheaper to make as well... very few curves make for easy to make panels. Not a lot of investment needed to manufacture these things.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by londons_explore on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @09:21PM (#21654135)
When curves are made on a computer, and CNC cut into a steel press that can make a door in 8 seconds, they turn out very cheap. In fact, curves are much stronger than flat panels for the same weight/cost, which is a big reason for exterior curves in some cars which are also structural.

From that perspective, I think the flat angular design used is for style only, and has no engineering basis.

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by ChickeNES on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:38AM (#21654854)
I don't understand why people keep speculating about this when it's already been covered by the press and Elon himself:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pi...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1198700591465156608

Re:Something Changed at Tesla by imtringued on Thursday November 28, 2019 @07:16AM (#21656679)
The design of the body panels still requires a hydraulic press to form the parts. The only money that can be saved is with cheaper dies but that only matters for low production volumes. Breaking a stamping press sounds like incompetence to me. They have near infinite scalability. Just build a bigger one.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by defterGoose on Thursday November 28, 2019 @12:14AM (#21654759)
Yep. The lack of curves will also make it near impossible to blend any dent/paint repair that it might need down the road.
Re:Something Changed at Tesla by goatinaboat on Thursday November 28, 2019 @03:59AM (#21655675)
I think they are targeting people who do not care for environmental issues and who still think that electric vehicles are something for beaus and weaklings

How is that different from people who want to loudly signal their environmental virtue while ignoring externalities such as the electric power probably coming from coal, the extraction and manufacturing processes for batteries, etc? This is a competitor to an electric humvee - an unnecessarily large vehicle is wasted energy no matter where that energy originated