News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by Trias11 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @03:39PM (#21456423)
Pocket change. Cost of doing business.

They made way more money by misleading customers and will continue to do so with penalties that small.

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by Animats on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @04:41PM (#21457021)
Yes. AT&T now offers "AT&T Unlimited Starter", "AT&T Unlimited Extra", and "AT&T Unlimited & More Premium".

"Available when Stream Saver is turned off. Learn more at att.com/streamsaver. After 15 GB hotspot speed limited to maximum of 128Kbps. Customers may temporarily experience slower speeds during busy times. On AT&T Unlimited & More Premium, if you exceed 22 GB of data on a line in one billing cycle, your speed may be slowed until the end of that billing cycle when the network is congested. All AT&T Unlimited Starter and AT&T Unlimited Extra customers have a limit of 1.5 Mbps (SD quality) when video streaming, and may experience temporarily reduced speeds when the network is congested."

The FTC didn't even make them stop using the term "Unlimited".

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by shpx on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @05:22PM (#21457410)
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by mysterydip on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @06:15PM (#21457876)
Yes, but content is typically bursty: Visiting a website, sharing a photo or video, etc.

Waiting for a single 3MB photo to show up (or send) would take 4 minutes.

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by bashy on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @06:00PM (#21457726)
Do they mean kilobits or kilobytes?
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by user5994461 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @06:54PM (#21458254)
This has to be bytes, you wouldn't be able to open a website in entire minutes if it were bits.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by opencl on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @07:36PM (#21458565)
Oh they do mean bits, it is indeed completely unusable after you hit the limit and get throttled.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by monocasa on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @07:34PM (#21458555)
It's bits; they're limiting you to 2G. And yeah, it's basically useless.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by victoro0 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @07:37PM (#21458572)
Internet speeds are usually measured in bits though, and include the protocols overhead, not just the final bytes transferred in HTTP.

Right now my download speed is 10.62Mbps and upload speed is 13.38Mpbs. That is some heavy throttling indeed.

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by mlthoughts2018 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @08:28PM (#21458866)
“Unlimited & More” just makes me laugh so cynically.

It reminds me of a time I saw an Olive Garden food truck offering unlimited soup, salad and breadsticks.

Do the people in line understand conservation of mass? What must be happening inside that truck to support “unlimited” food.

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by Johnny555 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @08:47PM (#21458953)
It reminds me of a time I saw an Olive Garden food truck offering unlimited soup, salad and breadsticks.... Do the people in line understand conservation of mass? What must be happening inside that truck to support “unlimited” food.

I think in this case, the offer is well understood. "Unlimited" means as much as you can consume during one seating, without limit. If you can eat 5 orders of pasta by yourself, they should serve you 5 orders, they shouldn't serve 3, then make you wait 30 minutes between orders after that. If you only get 2 orders of pasta before they run out, then you should expect a refund since that's not "unlimited". No one thinks that the single food truck can feed the entire world, but I do expect it to feed me as much as I can eat.

When a cellular company advertises "unlimited data", that's similarly understood to mean as much data as you can consume in one billing period, without limit or throttling. It doesn't mean that I should be able to run my server farm over it and transfer petabytes of data every month, but if I'm a heavy Netflix user and want to transfer 100GB or more of data, I should be able to, if you can't support that use, then don't sell an "unlimited" plan.

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by mlthoughts2018 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @08:59PM (#21458999)
I more mean if any big corp is offering “unlimited,” it’s a good indication of some version of a ripoff / unfair terms of use.

The added humor in the food truck case is that you can visually see both the extent of the physical supply and the queue of consumers rendering that physical supply incapable of supporting the “unlimited” offer all in one single field of view, leaving you to surmise the only possibility has to do with outrageous food engineering to reduce resource usage and leading to questionable end product (thus undermining the “unlimited” offer’s intended effect to draw customers).

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by Johnny555 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @09:06PM (#21459029)
I more mean if any big corp is offering “unlimited,” it’s a good indication of some version of a ripoff / unfair terms of use.

Consumers should stop accepting that as the status quo.

My ISP (Sonic.net) offers "unlimited internet", and they deliver, they have no bandwidth or download caps at all.

https://www.sonic.com/transparency#ii-b

Throttling: Sonic does not engage in any practice that degrades or impairs access to lawful internet traffic based on content, application, service, user, or use of a non-harmful device.

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by mlthoughts2018 on Thursday November 07, 2019 @10:25AM (#21473980)
Your situation seems so exceedingly rare that it is inapplicable for the vast majority.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by SN76477 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @04:40PM (#21457002)
Pocket change is right. How about some real fines?
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by OnlineGladiator on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @04:49PM (#21457095)
How much do you think they should be fined?
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by porpoisemonkey on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @05:32PM (#21457487)
I'd like to see them make their customers whole by forcing them to refund the monthly payment for every month that a customer with an "unlimited" plan was capped or throttled.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by SquishyPanda23 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @05:14PM (#21457341)
Some multiple larger than one of the estimated amount of money they made by lying.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by SN76477 on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @12:01AM (#21459841)
return the money that was taken unfairly from the customer would be a start.

And then a sizable fine over that, let’s say an additional 100%

These companies need to feel pain for unethical practices. Not a slap on the wrist.

Next where does that money for the fine go? It shouldn’t just disappear into the ether.

Using the money from the fine perhaps a third party committee should be formed that regularly audits this known exploitive behavior. Maybe 50M could get that off of the ground and moving.

That could be 36 months of auditing from a third party.

All of this of course isn’t how things work. It’s just what I think is ideal.

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by Braggadocious on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @05:30PM (#21457465)
A refund for anyone affected and asks for one. At $100/mo, 60 million dollars translates to 25,000 pay periods. AT&T has 25 million subscribers. I think its fair to say they got away with lying here.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by OnlineGladiator on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @07:16PM (#21458428)
> At $100/mo, 60 million dollars translates to 25,000 pay periods. AT&T has 25 million subscribers.

I am failing to see how these numbers add up. What is the explicit formula you are using?

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by monocasa on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @07:37PM (#21458574)
24 months at $100/month leads you to 25k subscribers at $60M.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by OnlineGladiator on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @07:48PM (#21458642)
Thank you. I was doing mental math and I think I was lazily confusing 24 with 25 and noticed my zeros were off and after a few tries decided to just ask.

The 24 months explains it. I figured a pay period was a month because I think of it as how often I have to pay.

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by brokensegue on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @07:38PM (#21458581)
they think a pay period is 24 months (it may be). 60 million / (24mo * $100/mo) = 25,000
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by dragonwriter on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @05:23PM (#21457423)
Triple the amount of money reasonably attributable to the misrepresentation.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by OnlineGladiator on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @05:25PM (#21457433)
So I agree with this idea, but how do you calculate the amount? I'm not asking for a rule, I'm asking someone to calculate me a number for how big AT&T's fine should be.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by dragonwriter on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @07:50PM (#21458654)
You'd have to have the rule going in and have the parties present evidence on the amount attributable in the appropriate phase of the trial. Intuitively, the actual number awarded seems far below the minimum plausible if the treble-gains rule proposed were used, but I'll freely admit I don't have hard data to set what the likely actual damages should be under that rule.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by StanislavPetrov on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @09:40AM (#21462999)
Take the gross revenue collected by AT&T for all of the "unlimited" plans that were sold and multiply that by 2.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by deogeo on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @06:35PM (#21458078)
That's not the formula used when copyright violations are involved...
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by SN76477 on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @12:02AM (#21459844)
LOL
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by tw04 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @07:30PM (#21458535)
6 months of revenue would probably get the message across without bankrupting them.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by SN76477 on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @12:03AM (#21459847)
I like this idea of it being a percentage of gross.

Make it hurt.

Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by pmoriarty on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @05:26PM (#21457443)
They should just double the fine after every violation.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by flyGuyOnTheSly on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @04:59PM (#21457189)
A punitive amount.
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by diminoten on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @04:24PM (#21456861)
Yeah but like, is it really also not "pocket change" to just actually give "unlimited" service? Or what about the effectiveness of the "unlimited" lie, was that worth spending an extra $60MM on the marketing?
Re:AT&T to pay $60M over U.S. allegations it lied in 'unlimi... by nathankunicki on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @04:32PM (#21456931)
Of course it is, the wholesale cost of data is peanuts comparatively. However there is _more_ money to be made by marking it up and charging $X per GB above an arbitrary cap.