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Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by osrec on Saturday September 28, 2019 @08:23PM (#21104061)
While this discussion boils down to the efficiency of the underlying regex engines for PHP and Rust, it does highlight (to me) why PHP is so popular: in the hands of average programmers, PHP is quick to write and fast (enough) to execute.

I personally believe it's ubiquity is well-deserved, and I actually like it as a language despite all its quirks (which exist in almost every language I've come across)!

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by biggestdecision on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:04PM (#21104258)
PHP isn't popular because it's easy, it's popular because for a long while it was the only viable language for developing web applications.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by wvenable on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:15PM (#21104311)
Indeed. I think most developers don't understand how amazing PHP was compared to the competition and just how fast it acquired new features during those early years.

It was a scripting engine with a such a thin layer of C that it could easily and quickly incorporate the huge number of open source C libraries that existed at the time.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by osrec on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:09PM (#21104536)
While your observation is true to some degree, I do remember ASP, Cold fusion, CGI and a few other more obscure technologies way back when.

Perhaps I was quite late to the party though - I only started programming in 1999 (got a computer for my 11th birthday!) - so I'm not sure what it was like before then.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by javagram on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:36PM (#21104649)
ASP and ColdFusion both required license fees at the time I believe (asp the Windows server license and CF of course the CF license)

CGI just would run any type of script. Originally that was typically Perl but PHP surpassed Perl for a variety of reasons. PHP could be run either through CGI or through mod_php in Apache. There was also a mod_perl I believe and a few others but php is what web hosts typically installed in the early 2000s.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by im3w1l on Sunday September 29, 2019 @08:57AM (#21106766)
Why did php beat perl?
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by klodolph on Sunday September 29, 2019 @12:36PM (#21108004)
Someone with better knowledge might step in here.

From https://perl.apache.org/about/history.html

> "PHP was also around already, and was an embarrassing witness to Perl's greatest weakness for server-side programming: that embedding Perl was a pain. Although the hooks were there for embedding Perl, they were both undocumented and buggy.

My other take on it is that PHP is like TypeScript, in that the path to adopting PHP from HTML is simple enough—just rename your HTML files with a .php suffix and you can add dynamic elements—or not. Just like how you can rename your JavaScript code with a .ts suffix and add types—or not.

Personally, I remember writing a few Perl CGI scripts. But I ended up using PHP for any quick-and-dirty dynamic stuff.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by Kye on Sunday September 29, 2019 @11:55AM (#21107732)
The web. Making a typical language output HTML required a lot of hoop-jumping or inventing a web framework in a time before Django and Rails. PHP was its own web framework.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by horizone on Sunday September 29, 2019 @09:28AM (#21106910)
Personally, I switched from Perl to PHP around 2002 (I could be wrong with the year) as I wanted to move from flat file dbs to MySQL. I wouldn't say that it beat Perl, it was just made web development more accessible. I still wrote in Perl after that, but for server side scripting (processing, cleanup etc).
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by wvenable on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:15PM (#21108654)
Perl was just as inscrutable then as it is now.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by tjpnz on Sunday September 29, 2019 @11:19AM (#21107522)
Easy to write and easy to deploy. But that was a double edged sword.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by wvenable on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:41PM (#21104670)
> I do remember ASP, Cold fusion, CGI

This is the competition that PHP was so much better than.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by Sir_Vival on Sunday September 29, 2019 @01:46AM (#21105344)
I had a job 5 or 6 years ago where I needed to maintain/add to a website using ColdFusion. I actually kind of liked it, compared to PHP. That said I wasn't doing anything especially complex, which might have changed my mind.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:23AM (#21105457)
CGI yes, ASP certainly not.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by untog on Sunday September 29, 2019 @08:15AM (#21106598)
ASP required a license. That alone made PHP superior for many people.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Sunday September 29, 2019 @10:46AM (#21107303)
Cheaper definitely, superior not.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by untog on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:11PM (#21108629)
Why are the two separate? Of course you include cost when evaluating with option is superior.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:42PM (#21108826)
Because to be superior, the tooling and libraries also have to be superior.

PHP was only free beer with a clunky language and 3rd class DB support.

MySQL couldn't hold a candle to real RDMS back then, versus what was available with ODBC connectors.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by untog on Monday September 30, 2019 @03:36PM (#21118920)
> Because to be superior, the tooling and libraries also have to be superior.

Perhaps that is your definition, but the dictionary disagrees.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @02:41AM (#21133904)
Your dictionary definition I guess.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/superior

I don't see definitions about being cheaper as sign of quality, quite the opposite.

Maybe you would like to share your dictionary as well?

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by purerandomness on Sunday September 29, 2019 @11:23AM (#21107543)
ASP was inaccessible for younger developers, tinkering with a linux box after school.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Sunday September 29, 2019 @11:33AM (#21107601)
That is a very regional example.

Getting access to a Windows box was never a problem in countries with more flexibility towards piracy.

80 and 90's Portuguese students could get whatever they wanted from shaddy shops that used to copy books and software.

Booklets with 200+ items on them.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by wvenable on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:08PM (#21108605)
Classic ASP was terrible; if you're thinking ASP.NET then that did not exist at the time.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:40PM (#21108819)
Using OCX from ASP, written in Delphi, VB and C++ Builder, alongside VB Script, was definitely better than PHP 3.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by wvenable on Sunday September 29, 2019 @03:19PM (#21109092)
Shared hosts didn't let you use anything but VBScript and JScript. Using COM components was a non-starter for the majority of users -- which is entirely the point.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Sunday September 29, 2019 @05:43PM (#21109799)
The ones that offered IIS instead of ASP via Apache surely did, depending on the price plan.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by wvenable on Sunday September 29, 2019 @08:41PM (#21110760)
There is no ASP via Apache. ASP was only ever hosted on IIS and given the huge security implications of running custom binaries on IIS in a shared environment, it almost wasn't ever done.

I started doing ASP development before my web host suggested it was cheaper and easier to do PHP. They had both Linux and Windows shared hosting at the time.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Monday September 30, 2019 @01:35AM (#21112032)
Sure there was one

http://www.apache-asp.org/faq.html

I was only wrong regarding the language, it made use of Perl instead.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by wvenable on Monday September 30, 2019 @02:35AM (#21112295)
One esoteric library that was not mainstream. It's completely unrelated (and utterly incompatible) to Microsoft's ASP. I'm not even sure why you'd bother to bring it up -- what point does this make?
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Monday September 30, 2019 @03:45AM (#21112676)
That PHP only got where it is today because of cheap hosting, down to the level of free beer, nothing more.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by wvenable on Monday September 30, 2019 @11:35AM (#21116447)
That doesn't explain how it beat a number of other technologies at the time -- including well established ones, like Perl.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Monday September 30, 2019 @05:40PM (#21119927)
Sure it does, cheap hosting. Many ISP only offered Perl with mod_perl, or telnet/cgi access, in the more expensive variants.

The cheapest of them all was PHP with files being dumped via FTP upload.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by anthony_doan on Sunday September 29, 2019 @03:24AM (#21105633)
> I think most developers don't understand how amazing PHP was compared to the competition and just how fast it acquired new features during those early years.

The only competition in those early years was Perl iirc.

I'm not entirely sure if PHP was fast at acquiring new features.

PHP didn't have classes until version 4 iirc. Namespace in 5.4? And 5.x is around NodeJS early days where RoR and Python Django/Pylon/Pyramid was around.

I think how easy it is to pick up the language to do things contributed to its success. The template is built-in and 1000 functions in the global namespace.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by wvenable on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:13PM (#21108640)
> I'm not entirely sure if PHP was fast at acquiring new features.

You really have turn back the clock; languages didn't have package management back then. They didn't have packages. The only exception, at the time, was Perl (which had CPAN). PHP acquiring features was not just about language features but also how quickly it's standard library grew to accomplish anything you needed on the web.

> PHP didn't have classes until version 4 iirc. Namespace in 5.4? And 5.x is around NodeJS early days where RoR and Python Django/Pylon/Pyramid was around.

I'm actually talking about the PHP3 era; by the time we're talking about PHP5 then there was already plenty of competition and the "early days" were already long over.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by jtreminio on Sunday September 29, 2019 @01:25PM (#21108307)
Proper classes in 5.0, "true" OOP in 5.2.

Namespaces in 5.3

Javascript namespace/module handling is a nightmare, they should have copied PHP's.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by osrec on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:16PM (#21104576)
Not sure I agree with this. Here's why: new tech stacks crop up every few months, and they're all competing for the same developer brain space. If PHP wasn't easy, I'm certain the interest in it would have evaporated to a large extent. Yet even today, people are choosing to start their projects in PHP. I think it's simplicity has a lot to do with it.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by momokoko on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:31PM (#21104637)
But PHP was essentially the original widely adopted lambda cloud function. 1,000s of dirt cheap shared hosting platforms showed up on the scene. The reason they could make the hosting so cheap was that the way PHP runs. You are only consuming resources when you are serving the request.

To this day, cloud functions still deal with "cold starts", where this was already a solved problem with PHP shared hosting.

All PHP needed to be was good enough. It was how it served pages that made it as popular as it was.

Large disclaimer, I know a PHP shared host was not actually scalable like AWS Lambda. Just the idea that any small business could plop down a few servers and start selling shared PHP hosting was huge back then.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by h1d on Sunday September 29, 2019 @01:22AM (#21105261)
It's more like, would someone else be able to maintain the code I write with language X? And would the person trying to run it be able to run in their environment without fiddling with SSH access?

If it's just me writing and deploying I use TypeScript but otherwise I tend to use PHP.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by javajosh on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:17PM (#21104327)
>for a long while [PHP] was the only viable language for developing web applications.

That is not what I remember. CGI existed before PHP (1994), and was used extensively for web apps (ebay still appears to use it to this day). Also, mod_perl and Java Servlets were introduced around the same time, circa 1996, so I don't think it's correct to say PHP had a monopoly on web apps "for a long while".

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by toyg on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:31PM (#21104393)
Not a monopoly, but it was the easiest and most performant option at lower price points.

Java required specialised or dedicated hosting ($$$). CGI was slow as hell. Mod_perl often was not available in shared hosting, for whatever reason.

PHP was cheap, fast, ubiquitous, and Good Enough™, for about a decade. Then VPS happened and the market changed.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by vidarh on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:05PM (#21104522)
Most people initially deployed php via CGI in my experience. I don't remember when mod_php arrived, but we'd been using PHP for quite some time at that point.

While CGI was slow-ish, alternatives like fastcgi were already around (and in fact running PHP via fastcgi was also quite common for a while.

By the time PHP became ubiquitous, most people had moved away from plain CGI regardless of language.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by ndarwincorn on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:22PM (#21104602)
> in fact running PHP via fastcgi was also quite common for a while.

Mind clarifying how this is different from the current hotness (from what I can tell, due to a decade-old shortcoming that no longer exists in mod_php/Apache MPM options) where folks are running PHP via the Fastcgi Process Manager?

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by vidarh on Sunday September 29, 2019 @12:01AM (#21104985)
I don't think it is very different, other than hopefully maturity of the implementation. I've not had to set up any new PHP stuff for about a decade so I haven't kept up with what the current setups look like.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by ndarwincorn on Thursday October 03, 2019 @10:09AM (#21147107)
Re-reading it it sounds like it swung from fastcgi because Apache didn't have PHP support, to mod_php, and back to fastcgi (FPM) because Apache had poor concurrency support. It no longer does, but from someone who has to deal with this at their day job I can tell you that the current PHP ops wisdom is still stuck on not using mod_php.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by dimator on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:38PM (#21104424)
The friction involved in getting those other technologies up and running was not trivial though. That played a role in php's initial success, because it was trivial to get up and running.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by ksec on Sunday September 29, 2019 @06:31AM (#21106255)
>The friction involved in getting those other technologies up and running was not trivial though.

That is only in relative terms in its time. For the past few years I keep thinking how the hell did Web Development went from Perl and CGI, arguably troublesome but understandable, to PHP which is ugly but easy to set up and running, to present days of... depending on which timeline you are, vagrant, VM, docker, k8s, Node.js... I would argue even Heroku with Ruby Rails isn't anywhere as easy as they were than the old days.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by unicornfinder on Sunday September 29, 2019 @06:42AM (#21106278)
Indeed. I am much happier developing with Ruby on Rails than I was with say, PHP, but I do find it hilarious how back in the day deployment just meant uploading a couple of PHP files to a server and how now I need a full CI pipeline.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by winrid on Saturday September 28, 2019 @11:31PM (#21104866)
How so? As someone that's set them all up - with Apache the setup for mod_perl, php, and cgi are like the same right - they are all essentially cgi.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by cutler on Sunday September 29, 2019 @01:46AM (#21105345)
No, they are not the same as CGI. You can run PHP as a CGI, as many cheap hosts do, but for performance PHP is run as either Apache mod_php or php-fpm with Nginx. Mod_perl is not CGI and requires much more discipline to prevent shared memory leaks. Mod_perl allows content negotiation which CGI does not.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by shantly on Sunday September 29, 2019 @12:41AM (#21105116)
I remember it as a worse Perl, but with a bunch more web-batteries included. It's the latter that got me interested, way back in the day. Deployment story wasn't that different, aside from that cheap hosts were more likely to let you run PHP than Perl.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by vezycash on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:26PM (#21104375)
Coldfusion was also a thing around that time. Flash sites as well.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by cutler on Sunday September 29, 2019 @01:50AM (#21105359)
Yes, Flash was huge. When I was learning Perl around 2000 I shared a flat with a Flash animator who worked for an agency with huge clients such as Sky. It was all done in Flash for very big dollars.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by francislavoie on Saturday September 28, 2019 @11:51PM (#21104942)
Specifically to that point, Rasmus talks here about the reason PHP succeeded where Perl failed https://youtu.be/wCZ5TJCBWMg?t=552
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by buboard on Sunday September 29, 2019 @03:50AM (#21105745)
I think rasmus's presentation explained pretty clearly why PHP won. Mod_php was a game changer and mod_perl failed by making the wrong choices. Overall, PHP was faster, easier, cutting edge and full of features without becoming too expensive to run, thats why web hosts supported it, not the other way around. What's not to love, honestly, even today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZ5TJCBWMg

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by pjmlp on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:21AM (#21105453)
Delphi, C++, VB have been viable since 1995, Smalltalk since 1995, Objective-C since 1996, Python since 1998, Java has been viable since 2001, C# and VB.NET since 2002.

PHP only became viable with version 3, around 1998, and having most ISP only offering a choice between CGI (usually C or Perl) and PHP, naturally drove most cost oriented devs to PHPs.

Those willing to shell out more, could use one of the above options.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by cutler on Sunday September 29, 2019 @01:39AM (#21105316)
Two other big factors in PHP's popularity in the early 2000s were its inclusion in Dreamweaver as an option for building dynamic sites and the profusion of "Build X with PHP & MySQL" magazine articles.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by buboard on Sunday September 29, 2019 @03:45AM (#21105726)
for how long? Perl existed when php started, as well as all the proprietary languages, java , asp etc. then came ruby python etc. It's not for the lack of competition
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by traverseda on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:50PM (#21104466)
s/PHP/Javascript
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by bjoli on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:29AM (#21105479)
The same is true for python. I spent some time trying to write a CSV parser in guile scheme that was as fast as python's (mistakenly believing that python's CSV parser was actually written in python). I wrote a fast-ish streaming FSM-parser (about 100loc) but only managed to be about 1.7x as fast as python's CSV module. Browsing the python source I realised that the python parser was written in optimised and nicely buffered C.

I could probably compete with python if I used guile's lower level C-procedures, but I sort of lost interest after that :)

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by Avamander on Saturday September 28, 2019 @08:44PM (#21104174)
I don't like it from the security perspective, looking at just how many vulnerabilities PHP-based software has had, it's too trivial to create a XSS, SQLi, CSRF, LFI, RCE and many other classes of vulnerabilities. I think there are better options out there than on average give better results. Maybe it's just incredible selection bias I'm encountering \shrug.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by meritt on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:17PM (#21104328)
Your argument is a form of survivorship bias. You're not acknowledging all of the gaping security flaws in contemporary web-development frameworks. People were writing sloppy PHP before CSRF and XSS were even invented. Yet somehow, Python, Ruby and NodeJS have all had numerous CVEs despite those attack vectors being well known at the time a given framework was written.

You think SQLi was bad? You should spend some time thinking about the numerous attack vectors available today in nearly every GraphQL implementation where programmers can't move fast enough in adding it to their stack. Data exfiltration is no longer a flaw but a feature.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by Avamander on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:23PM (#21104609)
> People were writing sloppy PHP before CSRF and XSS were even invented.

It is very very easy to write sloppy PHP, definitely easier than in many other languages and default frameworks.

> You're not acknowledging all of the gaping security flaws in contemporary web-development frameworks. P

I'm very aware of them, basically none have (had) as many high-impact vulns as PHP-based stuff does.

> Yet somehow, Python, Ruby and NodeJS have all had numerous CVEs despite those attack vectors being well known at the time a given framework was written.

You're not acknowledging the orders of magnitudes difference between the impact of an usual PHP vuln and those you listed.

> You think SQLi was bad? You should spend some time thinking about the numerous attack vectors available today in nearly every GraphQL implementation

The flaws in others are a very poor excuse for flaws in a thing itself.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by delfinom on Saturday September 28, 2019 @08:55PM (#21104215)
But plenty of those vulnerabilities are not the fault of the language but the frameworks written by others. You can just as easily create SQL injection attacks in a Rust program or Ruby program. You can just as easily introduce XSS/CSRF problems in any of them. Etc.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by Avamander on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:19PM (#21104590)
If the majority of frameworks for a language are vunerable it's the language's fault. Python definitely doesn't have that issue, Rust and Go don't either.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by francislavoie on Saturday September 28, 2019 @11:57PM (#21104968)
> majority of frameworks for a language are vunerable

Where's your proof? Modern PHP frameworks are secure by default.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by Avamander on Sunday September 29, 2019 @09:25AM (#21106902)
We're talking about the majority of frameworks that are being used, not about some newer versions 0.1% use. In the end arguing won't get neither of us anywhere, I get my livelihood from testing vulnerable software and you can keep writing software in PHP.
Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by jtreminio on Sunday September 29, 2019 @01:28PM (#21108325)
Majority of frameworks in use are:

Symfony Laravel CodeIgniter CakePHP Yii Zend Slim

All of these can (and recommend) using either PDO with named parameters, or a full ORM for SQL work. Most came packaged with a PDO (Doctrine, mostly) by default but have always supported whatever you wanted to use.

Write shit code, win shit prizes.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by beatgammit on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:16PM (#21104325)
> You can just a easily create SQL injection attacks in a Rust program

I disagree, mostly on the grounds that string concatenation isn't very convenient, so it tends to be easier to do things "the right way" instead of hacking things together. Yes, you can do string concatenation using something like `format!(...)`, but at that point it's really similar to the correct solution that it's not really what you'd reach for by default.

And yeah, the community here is a huge part of it, and IMO languages can and should be judged by their communities. If a language's community promotes insecure solutions, that's a language that I don't want to use at my company because I don't want my employees following that example.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by muglug on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:03PM (#21104255)
It’s really easy to write PHP, which means that people who don’t know about escaping input write PHP.

While there are some web-focussed languages (vs frameworks) that deliberately make it hard for you to write that sort of code, barely anyone uses them.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by horizone on Sunday September 29, 2019 @09:42AM (#21106971)
> It’s really easy to write PHP, which means that people who don’t know about escaping input write PHP.

Not trying call you out on this point, more it made me laugh. Our lead developer strips out characters that break his XML importer (lets just say they are standard common characters, heck, he changes chr(13) to a string so he can switch it back later because he doesn't know how to handle multiple lines in an XML value). People who don't know how to escape inputs / actually handle data properly are in every language. We cringe on a daily basis.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by colshrapnel on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:51AM (#21105536)
"escaping input" is a notorious delusion. And a bad one.

- it is not "input" must be treated, but, so to say - output. It's the destination that matters, not the source. By the time you get the input, you have no idea how and where it will be used. You can tell it right before the output (or, rather, better to call it "use") only. Say, you've got some input that didn't pass the verification and you will have to display it back in the HTML form. And if you already "escaped" it for SQL, it will be malformed. And vice-versa. Moreover, any data must be formatted properly before use, not just something that you tagged as "input".

- the word treated above is for a reason. Because the term "escaping" suggests some certain routine in PHP, which is the actual reason for numerous SQL injections.

Re:How come PHP seems so much faster than Rust? by muglug on Sunday September 29, 2019 @03:08AM (#21105581)
You're right, my wording was inexact - we must always escape strings that can be controlled in some fashion by the user.

I'm working on comprehensive taint analysis for PHP[0], and I'm spending a bunch of time thinking about how to automatically detect those dirty strings.

[0] https://psalm.dev/articles/psalm-3-and-a-half#taint-analysis