Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by whymauri on Monday December 17, 2018 @04:54AM
(#18697940)
I have Venezuelan news sources [1] - it's not breaking news. I think it was announced a few months ago. A lot of benefits/incentives/government wages have been making this weird transition to a digital wallet of sorts. I have a final exam tomorrow so I cannot translate at the moment.
"Starting now, we will pay pensions through a digital wallet on a monthly basis. This is so senior citizens can rest easy and have more freedom in their spending habits."
Imperfect translation, but functional I hope. I'm not 100% sure if the digital wallet is in Petro, I do think it's through a sort of citizenship card though. I can ask my parents tomorrow morning to clarify. I think the crypto news/media is confounding the gov. digital wallet with the Petro? Things happen so fast nowadays I can barely keep up with the mess.
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by celticninja on Monday December 17, 2018 @04:50AM
(#18697922)
I cant find one, the Fiancial Times have covered Venezuela and petro in the past and they have no mention of it. Looks like BS to me based on one line in what appears to be a financial statement/email.
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by jsty on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:32AM
(#18698085)
They've reported on the switch to the 'new Bolivar' [1], which has an official conversion to the Petro. So the Venezuelan government might well just now be switching to issuing new Bolivars, and reporting their value in Petros (I can't say why this would make any particular sense, except perhaps to make the distinction from old Bolivars clear).
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by v768 on Monday December 17, 2018 @06:03AM
(#18698206)
Living in Venezuela:
After more than a year of official announcements about the petro, nobody knows what it is, nobody has ever bought, sold, owned nor seen one.
Some people have sent other crypto to some sort of pre-sale, but never got anything back.
I don't know what is the petro, but it hardly exists and it is certainly not a cryptocurrency.
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by buboard on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:09AM
(#18697994)
Is petro in exchanges outside VZ? This just seems like a move to put the blame for the inevitable crash of this fiat cryptocurrency to "the bad bitcoin market".
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by jetrink on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:25AM
(#18698065)
It was Maduro who launched the currency and if it fails, it will be his failure. More likely, they are trying to recreate the URV[1] that Brazil used to get inflation under control.
- Limiting price adjustments to once a year;
- Privatizations;
- Reducing government spending and increasing taxes;
- Reducing import taxes and making imports easier;
- Interventions in the exchange rate;
- Increasing the central bank interest rate.
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by talltimtom on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:34AM
(#18698094)
A government backed crypto currency is essentially just a different type of digital currency. If petro is more stable than bolivar, i would think people would prefer it, as long as conversions are simple.
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by chrisseaton on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:46AM
(#18698143)
Maduro definitely describes himself and his policies as socialist. Socialists in other countries like Corbyn also describe him and his policies as socialist and have supported him. I think he and his policies are undeniably socialist.
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by v768 on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:56AM
(#18698182)
Corbyn described Chavez as socialist, not Maduro.
Maduro has undone the "socialist" stuff that Chavez had more or less enhanced like free healthcare and free education.
Maduro certainly labels himself as socialist but, living in Venezuela, I can't identify any socialist policies going on.
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by shaki-dora on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:43AM
(#18698124)
I believe we are on the same side in this particular ideological (no-)food-fight, but I think your criticism is off the mark.
Chavez and, to lesser extend, Maduro, were/are, under most any definition, socialists.
What I believe makes you want to avoid the association is that naturally, some intellectually dishonest people will turn around and use a completely different definition of the word to jump from arguing against, say, rules prohibiting forced arbitration clauses (to use an appropriately arbitrary example) directly to painting the spectre of Venezuela-style breakdown of civilisation in our future.
Personally, I believe it's more use to argue against instances of the latter folly (which really deserves its own debate-ending "...fallacy" designation). Otherwise, it's that No-True-Scotsman thing.
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by lucozade on Monday December 17, 2018 @06:08AM
(#18698221)
I would tend to agree with you. What was state socialism has evolved into totalitarian dictatorship.
In fairness, pretty much every state socialist regime has, fairly quickly, evolved into a totalitarian dictatorship so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
It's clear that Marx was right in the sense that societies evolve, but wrong in that state socialism evolves to communism: it clearly doesn't. It's why I find intelligent people advocating for socialism to be particularly heinous. What they are, effectively, advocating for is totalitarianism.
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by shaki-dora on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:28AM
(#18698072)
This is going to be fun! From what I can pick up as (sometimes less than) subtle signalling from the crypto crowd, they tend towards a worldview somewhere between libertarian and alt-right on the spectrum, and Venezuela occupies that sweet spot of placing itself squarely opposite, and being terrible at, well, everything.
Matt Levine has sporadically covered this particularly folly, and it's well worth it: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=matt+le... (spoiler alert: he reveals everything up and including next year's season finale "Nope, that didn't work. Why did we ever think it would? Now, what shall we do about that Brazilian army trying to 'liberate' us?")
Besides US agents are involved in the media secretly and openly (CNN, Fox News,... promoting the conspiracy and lie that should justify the publically well known war e.g. Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria).
What western media company is outraged regarding the situation of journalist Julian Assange ?
Re:Venezuela Forcibly Converts Pensions into Petro
by geezerjay on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:41AM
(#18698112)
> This article is probably part of the US war campaign against Venezuela.
What is that even supposed to mean?
Besides the tin-foily nature of the baseless assertion, not to mention the hefty dose of weasel words, has the Maduro regime forced the conversion or not?
http://www.el-nacional.com/noticias/economia/maduro-pago-las...
Side note, this is the same newspaper that was trending earlier this week for shutting down.
Official announcement from presidential press office:
https://twitter.com/PresidencialVen/status/10338222224677150...
"Starting now, we will pay pensions through a digital wallet on a monthly basis. This is so senior citizens can rest easy and have more freedom in their spending habits."
Imperfect translation, but functional I hope. I'm not 100% sure if the digital wallet is in Petro, I do think it's through a sort of citizenship card though. I can ask my parents tomorrow morning to clarify. I think the crypto news/media is confounding the gov. digital wallet with the Petro? Things happen so fast nowadays I can barely keep up with the mess.
[1] https://www.ft.com/content/7e19a908-a48c-11e8-8ecf-a7ae1beff...
All stories reference the same Caracas Chronicle blog, it seems
1. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/04/130329523/how-...
I think some people have great (and not fond) memories of that in Poland since 50s till 1993... Only the final phase worked somewhat.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/fact-check-corbynista-...
did you mean to post this on 4chan?
Chavez and, to lesser extend, Maduro, were/are, under most any definition, socialists.
What I believe makes you want to avoid the association is that naturally, some intellectually dishonest people will turn around and use a completely different definition of the word to jump from arguing against, say, rules prohibiting forced arbitration clauses (to use an appropriately arbitrary example) directly to painting the spectre of Venezuela-style breakdown of civilisation in our future.
Personally, I believe it's more use to argue against instances of the latter folly (which really deserves its own debate-ending "...fallacy" designation). Otherwise, it's that No-True-Scotsman thing.
In fairness, pretty much every state socialist regime has, fairly quickly, evolved into a totalitarian dictatorship so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
It's clear that Marx was right in the sense that societies evolve, but wrong in that state socialism evolves to communism: it clearly doesn't. It's why I find intelligent people advocating for socialism to be particularly heinous. What they are, effectively, advocating for is totalitarianism.
Matt Levine has sporadically covered this particularly folly, and it's well worth it: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=matt+le... (spoiler alert: he reveals everything up and including next year's season finale "Nope, that didn't work. Why did we ever think it would? Now, what shall we do about that Brazilian army trying to 'liberate' us?")
Leftist Debunks John Oliver's Venezuela Episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fV-C1Ag5sI
A Brief History of U.S. Dirty Wars in Central America That Set the Stage for the Refugee Crisis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBJpykHbbYI
US Senator Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list – report https://www.rt.com/usa/444420-us-venezuela-terror-sponsor/
‘Bolton is preparing plan for my assassination, with help from Bogota’ – Venezuela’s Maduro https://www.rt.com/news/446316-maduro-assassination-bolton-v...
Besides US agents are involved in the media secretly and openly (CNN, Fox News,... promoting the conspiracy and lie that should justify the publically well known war e.g. Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria).
What western media company is outraged regarding the situation of journalist Julian Assange ?
The Guardian/Politico Psyop Against WikiLeaks https://consortiumnews.com/2018/12/01/the-guardian-politico-...
Besides: This comment might be my last comment on HN because I can not create replies because I am posting too fast according to HN.
What is that even supposed to mean?
Besides the tin-foily nature of the baseless assertion, not to mention the hefty dose of weasel words, has the Maduro regime forced the conversion or not?