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Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by beaner on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:05PM (#18520016)
Outside of specific academic focus, nearly everyone I know who has graduated a US university thinks basically the same way.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by BurningFrog on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:10PM (#18520035)
A cynical view is that US universities teaches you the opinions and manners you need to assume your role in the ruling class.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by hnuser355 on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:00PM (#18520208)
Haha, as if the average US university graduate is joining the ruling class
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by anonytrary on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:25PM (#18520293)
Haha, as if the average member of the ruling class didn't graduate from university.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by hnuser355 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @11:04PM (#18525405)
Who would say such a thing?
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by nineteen999 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:18AM (#18520572)
As a counterexample, Gina Rinehart who is Australia's wealthiest woman and number 7 worldwide, never graduated. So there are exceptions, but I get that it is not the norm.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by anonytrary on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:31AM (#18520618)
> average member
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by nineteen999 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @02:13AM (#18520890)
> but I get that it is not the norm.

And most available evidence suggests she did not get there through high intelligence, in lieu of a university education, but rather, complete and utter greed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDAwGqlIp7E

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by anonytrary on Saturday November 24, 2018 @02:21AM (#18520915)
As such, it is not a counterexample!

Edit: you keep editing your comments, but I was replying to the self-quote, which, at the time was your entire comment.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by nineteen999 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @02:58AM (#18521005)
Yeah. I'm a slow thinker and sometimes I need the entire edit window to string a sentence together. Sorry about that.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by nineteen999 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @02:23AM (#18520918)
Sure, bad choice of words on my part. I'm pointing out, perhaps badly, that there are other attributes other than intelligence & education that can get someone there, eg. luck, greed, being a sociopath etc.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by anonytrary on Saturday November 24, 2018 @02:32AM (#18520937)
General rule of thumb is to post a new comment or declare an explicit edit if the change is non-trivial and substantially changes the purpose/point of the comment.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by nineteen999 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @02:42AM (#18520963)
Sure. Have a nice day.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by beaner on Saturday November 24, 2018 @01:52AM (#18520850)
If there's a "ruling class" conspiracy theory it's more reasonably rooted in the ivy league/Harvard/Yale/Princeton, not so much US universities at large. That just covers too many people.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by mc32 on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:28PM (#18520102)
I think that’s more SciencesPo which grooms the political/ruling class. It’s too diffuse in the US to say so.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by mycall on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:02PM (#18520380)
I prefer that US universities teach you have to learn. What you learn doesn't really matter.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by scarface74 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @01:30AM (#18520802)
Until they try to get that first job out of college...
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by yardie on Saturday November 24, 2018 @09:41AM (#18522184)
Ah yes, the infamous “entry level” position that requires 3 years experience of Java|C++|C#.

My first entry level job required C# knowledge. So I went to the nearest Barnes and Nobles and read the Microsoft guide cover to cover. I was not a C# major in uni but being able to study, abstract, and internalize concepts was something I did learn.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by scarface74 on Sunday November 25, 2018 @10:38AM (#18527273)
Yes it sucks from both ends. Companies aren’t willing to invest in teaching employees because they know as soon as they do, the employee will leave for greener pastures and the employee can’t get experience without a job or a job without experience.

The usual retort is why not bring someone in as a junior, train them, and give them a raise to market rates? But then you’ve invested x amount of dollars on someone and y amount of time to bring them up to speed when you can find someone who already has the skill you need and they can hit the ground running.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by yardie on Sunday November 25, 2018 @10:58AM (#18527352)
But the whole point of entry-level positions is you get someone inexperienced at below market rates. What they are really aiming at is getting someone experienced but desperate enough to take an underpaid position. Then hope they don't leave for a better paying job elsewhere.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by scarface74 on Sunday November 25, 2018 @12:24PM (#18527757)
Bringing in someone inexperienced not only costs the amount of salary you’re paying for someone who doesn’t bring in business value, it also takes time away from experienced developers - costing even more.

Even worse, some junior developers do “negative work”. Work that is so bad, you have to take more time to undo the damage than just doing it yourself.

Whether it’s right or not, the only way for a potential employee to break that cycle is via side projects that they can show as experience.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by randomdata on Saturday November 24, 2018 @08:43AM (#18521952)
How does one make it to the age one normally goes to university without already having learned how to learn?
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by ralusek on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:27PM (#18520094)
It is literally the exact opposite. The ratio of leftist to right professors in university is 12:1, even more pronounced among faculty. 1 out of 5 professors in America identify as Marxist.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by tootahe45 on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:41PM (#18520151)
Marxist, so even more in favor of a ruling class above all.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by dempseye on Saturday November 24, 2018 @06:49AM (#18521593)
This sounds pithy, but is inaccurate. Marxists (in particular Leninists, because Marxism is a broad church) think that there is a ruling class, that in capitalist societies the ruling class is the minority of owners of capital, and that, in order to transition to a classless society, the capitalist ruling class needs to be replaced temporarily by a ruling class composed of people with the interests of the working class in mind.

The purpose of this period of working class rule is to eradicate the capitalist class and its ideology (not necessarily through violence, although in practice what ruling class yields to another without compulsion?), and develop the productive forces of the society in order to enable communism.

This last point is one of the big things that distinguishes Lenin's theories from Marx's, because Marx thought that revolution would naturally arise in the most advanced technological societies once the industrial base necessary for a transition to communism was already pretty much in place. As we know, the revolutions occurred in places with a lower level of development, thus requiring this theoretical modification and extending the period of rule by the working class beyond the brief duration that Marx envisaged.

The USSR, while it existed, always said they were "building socialism" and never said they had arrived at the destination, which is a classless society. The PRC says that it is "building socialism" and that the process might take a hundred generations. The purpose of their rule, according to their own theoretical framework, is to eventually give it up.

So no, Marxists are not "even more in favour of a ruling class above all."

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by andrepd on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:15PM (#18520264)
I know you're just trying to be snarky, but how does that make any sense?
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by manfredo on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:37PM (#18520320)
In command economies, someone needs to do the commanding. Unsurprisingly, the revolutionaries that install such systems often choose themselves for that role.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by emmelaich on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:56PM (#18520518)
Yes, the Left is the ruling class. Or the establishment if you like.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by bongo662 on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:34PM (#18520313)
Probably the idea that instead of class divide by wealth it would be class divide on political hierarchy (which would undoubtly divide on wealth as well)
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by lake99 on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:26PM (#18520298)
I guess it's a reference to George Orwell's "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by emmelaich on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:26AM (#18520604)
Maybe a reference to collectivization in Soviet Russia.

The peasants did not go willingly.

[dead]
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by fwn on Saturday November 24, 2018 @06:50AM (#18521600)
This is very wrong, assuming that the concept of academia is to have any scientific meaning.

We can see it, for example, in the GDR, the former East of Germany where social sciences basically died. At the very same time, West-Germany developed a hugely influential discourse (...with a lot of Marxists, despite all the tensions).

One could say that specific individuals from academia might profit from having symbolic capital to convert into political power, but that's hardly an idea that could be universally applied.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by fdrg on Saturday November 24, 2018 @07:34AM (#18521738)
This is not wrong at all. Compared to other professions, university-employed academics did well.

How is it controversial that it is easier for someone who is directly employed by the state to be a socialist?

You mention Marxist discourse in West Germany. It was easy for Adorno to be a socialist, because all he could do was talk in a convoluted, content-free manner.

Celibidache (who actually did something), called him the biggest windbag of the 20th century.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by dsfyu404ed on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:48PM (#18520492)
>1 out of 5 professors in America identify as Marxist.

I wonder how they're distributed among the various disciplines.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by repolfx on Saturday November 24, 2018 @05:28PM (#18524277)
Here is a helpful chart that gives this data:

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/the_prevalence_1...

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by mc32 on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:33PM (#18520125)
Whoa! I used ti lean left and professors tilted left, I hadn’t noticed it was so pronounced.

I gotta think they are more idealists than bona fide marxists though; I mean, if they read enough, they must know the drill (they wouldn’t have influence and any countertevolutionary ideas and they are sent off).

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by shoo on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:27PM (#18520099)
Jeff Schmidt's book "Disciplined Minds" is a great read about this kind of thing -- http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/

Here's some discussion from a review of Disciplined Minds by Brian Martin:

> Jeff Schmidt provides an answer in his book Disciplined Minds: professionals, including teachers, are selected and molded to have politically and intellectually subordinate attitudes, thereby making their creative energies available to the system. In short, "professional education and employment push people to accept a role in which they do not make a significant difference, a politically subordinate role." (p. 2).

> The first step in Schmidt’s argument is the claim that professionals - including police, doctors, lawyers, teachers and many others - think less independently than nonprofessionals. He cites opinion polls taken during the Vietnam war showing that support for the war was greater among those with more higher education.

> Schmidt argues that what really makes an individual a professional is not technical knowledge, but rather "ideological discipline."

> A key to creating docile professionals is professional training. Through their training, budding professionals learn to orient their intellectual effort to tasks assigned to them. Schmidt has a wonderful expression for this: "assignable curiosity." Children are naturally curious about all sorts of things. Along the road to becoming a professional, they learn how to orient this curiosity to tasks assigned by others.

https://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/pubs/01BRrt.html

The journalist Lyn Gerry read and recorded most of the chapters in the book, they can be listened to here: https://www.unwelcomeguests.net/Disciplined_Minds

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by philwelch on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:03PM (#18520220)
> He cites opinion polls taken during the Vietnam war showing that support for the war was greater among those with more higher education.

The rationale for American intervention in Vietnam, rightly or wrongly, was based on sophisticated geopolitical concerns. Things that are harder to understand tend to be better understood by more educated people for fairly obvious reasons. US intervention in World War II, to name one counterexample, was justified by a sneak attack on American sailors in Hawaii. Almost any idiot understood why we were fighting then.

Another difference was media influence, with the media firmly in favor of America going to war against Japan and Germany, and firmly opposed to America going to war against North Vietnam. If something is harder to understand, and the overwhelming message from the mass media is one of opposition to the government's position, then most uneducated people will oppose it. It's not that complicated.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by nyolfen on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:48PM (#18520176)
> He cites opinion polls taken during the Vietnam war showing that support for the war was greater among those with more higher education.

ie, people whose peers and children were less likely to be drafted.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by scarface74 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @01:36AM (#18520813)
He cites opinion polls taken during the Vietnam war showing that support for the war was greater among those with more higher education.

Of course they did. It wasn’t them or their kids getting drafted....

76% of the men sent to Vietnam were from lower middle/working class backgrounds.

http://history-world.org/vietnam_war_statistics.htm

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by sonnyblarney on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:05PM (#18520227)
This insight should be more commonly accepted.

That said - just like in Science - the consensus among thoughtfully educated people is probably 'more correct'.

Where things can go wrong ... is when the systematic class is wrong, or where there is a value shift.

Populism is a super example of this: educated business type see the world through economic lenses, and can't for a second understand how 'Brexit' could happen. Most people have an affinity for their culture and a few extra cents on off their pint (and massively more surpluses in the pockets of bankers) is not going to change their mind over it.

Doctors are a funny bunch in this regard: all of them seem to me to be the most intelligent, boring folks! They have to be in a way extremely small-c conservative, very orthodox, there's no experimentation or zaniness with human bodies. The system, and frankly the work (years of total work, oversight, convention) keeps them in the mould. And frankly, they have no reason to try to go outside it either, once inside the mould, it's just too lucrative to leave.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by dsfyu404ed on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:55PM (#18520513)
>Populism is a super example of this: educated business type see the world through economic lenses, and can't for a second understand how 'Brexit' could happen.

The same thing comes up whenever we talk about splitting states or cities/towns in the US. Some people are like "why would you want that, it's not in your economic interest" and the people who want whatever the split is to happen reply "we'd rather be poor and in control of ourselves"

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by sonnyblarney on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:26AM (#18520602)
The fundamental difference is that states and towns generally are not ethnocentric. Nations usually are.

Germany in the EU with open migration may possibly present an existential challenge to the nature of what Germany is in the long term. Some people don't care, some people want that, some are against it.

Whereas making SF Bay area '1 city' would be a matter of pragmatism, not much more.

Also - there's actually scant evidence that federalization is better for everyone in the long run, it depends a lot on many things. I actually believe the EEC with slightly better rules for movement would be fundamentally better than the EU - even in raw economic terms. But that Bay Area - with the right leadership - would be better off.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by yters on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:36PM (#18520136)
> He cites opinion polls taken during the Vietnam war showing that support for the war was greater among those with more higher education.

If support for the war was lower among the less education, does this mean the less educated do not think as independently?

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by all2 on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:15PM (#18520054)
Most people I know (I'm in university) can recite facts rather easily, they understand the theory and practice relatively well.

What they seem to lack (what most people I meet seem to lack) is questions and a questioning mind.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by chasing on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:23PM (#18520081)
Wow, that’s the polar opposite of my experience (the “lacking a questioning mind” bit). Maybe you’re in the wrong program or studying a major that doesn’t fit your intellectual needs?

(Added later...) I don’t know what you’re studying. And I know philosophy and fine arts programs get shat on sometimes, but one thing those subjects allow (when taught properly) is a very, very deep questioning and thoughtfulness towards many things. In my experience, anyway.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by all2 on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:27PM (#18520097)
I was in Engineering, then Applied Math, now in computer science.

I don't do well in university style math classes. It takes me a long time working through something to understand what is happening (and why - the why of a thing is one of the first questions I ask when I'm learning something new).

It takes me about twice as long to learn a math concept as my peers (or so it seems). But I'm typically the first to speak up during a lecture.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by chongli on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:43PM (#18520160)
It takes me about twice as long to learn a math concept as my peers (or so it seems). But I'm typically the first to speak up during a lecture.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If you're anything like me, you hold yourself to a higher standard when it comes to understanding a concept. A lot of people I know (I'm in second year math) do way better than me on exams but can't even explain some of the basic concepts in the courses, like:

* what is a basis?

* what does it really mean to diagonalize a matrix?

They've mastered the on-paper calculations but haven't put any thought into the deeper meaning of these concepts. When I try to explain they give me an odd look, as if to ask why anyone would care about these things. Are we raising an entire generation of Clever Hanses? [1]

I think the problem with university is that it's become too closely correlated with economic and social status. Or perhaps it's always been that way, though in the past it was not so much a cause of status but an effect.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by WalterBright on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:00PM (#18520211)
Some universities teach "follow the rules", others teach "here's where the rules come from." I was fortunate enough to have attended one of the latter.

This was brought home to me when I had to calculate the moment of inertia of some gears in a gearbox. I started with the concept of MoI, and worked it out with a bit of calculus. Another engineer was looking over my work, and asked "what book did you get the formula for MoI out of?" (The shape of the gear was unusual and the book formulae didn't match.)

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by analog31 on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:11PM (#18520253)
It would actually surprise me if any university had the ability to impose an overall bias in one of those directions over the other. There would seem to be too much variation among the individual professors, teachers, students, etc.

Anecdotally, I live in the shadow of a Big Ten university, so I know a lot of academics, and I don't think any of them have expressed a "follow the rules" approach that I was able to discern. Likewise for the people I know who are K-12 teachers, private music teachers, and so forth.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by WalterBright on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:31AM (#18520622)
I don't know about any university, but at Caltech it was consistent that everything used was derived from first principles. There wasn't any "trust me, use this rule".
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by mclehman on Saturday November 24, 2018 @11:44AM (#18522788)
That wasn't consistent at my school, but classes that did derive everything from first principles were consistently the best ones.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by analog31 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @09:32PM (#18525101)
I went to a small religious college, and my experience was similar to yours.

Edit: There were some exceptions, such as my double bass lessons.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by tartoran on Saturday November 24, 2018 @01:37AM (#18520817)
I think it depends on the choice of professors and lots of good ones do teach in not so Ivy League but in regular city univs. I had 50/50 hit and misses with professors in my university. I think that's a decently good number too..
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by dsfyu404ed on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:51PM (#18520501)
How would gear tooth profile affect MoI?
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by WalterBright on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:23AM (#18520591)
I just drew a box around half of the teeth. But the rest of the gear cross-section, being an airplane part, was sculpted to put material only where it was needed. Ideally, the strain at any point should be the same as any other point.

So the MoI was not simply a stackup of some stock shapes.

It's not that the calculation was particularly difficult, it's just that calculus was needed, and one couldn't just copy the formula for a stock shape.

It was just clear to me that some engineers were formula-pluggers and others learned it at a deeper level.

Stock shapes were certainly handy to check the math with, however. Fit the gear into a stock shape envelope, and have the gear envelope a stock shape. Your calculation should fall in between the results of those shapes.

The purpose of calculating the MoI was to determine if the stops at the end of the screw were strong enough to stop the gearbox without shattering.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by dsfyu404ed on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:29AM (#18520613)
>being an airplane part,

That explains it.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by WalterBright on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:33AM (#18520632)
<g>

Airplane parts are a whole 'nother world. I imagine that rocket parts take that to the nth level, which is one reason that working on rockets is the ultimate for an engineer. A real engineer would pay to work on an F1 engine design <g>.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by saagarjha on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:56PM (#18520517)
It would change the distribution of mass, presumably.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by chasing on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:42PM (#18520154)
Ask your professor questions, even if it feels weird to you. Go deep! Good professors and people truly interested in their fields of study will want to get into the nitty gritty with you — oftentimes the reason they can’t in class is more practical than anything: Lack of time, presumption of disinterest from students, etc. I have taught classes at universities and I’m always super-excited when students stick around wanting to talk more after class. It’s a sign that you’ve connected.

Maybe take a good literature or philosophy class if your university offers. They won’t help you understand CS (most likely — although some weird parallels can crop up), but they’ll expand your mind. If you let them!

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by godelmachine on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:35PM (#18520135)
>>It takes me about twice as long to learn a math concept as my peers (or so it seems). But I'm typically the first to speak up during a lecture.

This is actually an excellent habit, and you should nurture it as much as you can. It looks like you have done a careful SWOT analysis, and thats the way to go.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by known on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:51PM (#18520504)
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by shanghaiaway on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:49PM (#18520177)
Being a Marxist in art school is not being questioning.

Being a Marxist in business school would be, as would being a libertarian in art school.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by forapurpose on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:03AM (#18520538)
A major step of growth for me was to be able to focus on what I lack; it was (and is) a much more worthwhile use of my time.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by alexashka on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:35PM (#18520317)
This is a universal quality, and necessarily so, or society would crumble due to instability.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by fergie on Saturday November 24, 2018 @01:04AM (#18520720)
Just out of interest- what questions are your peers are not asking?
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by all2 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @09:24AM (#18522112)
Most of them. All of them?

From some, I never hear any questions. The others, I hear domain specific questions (how do I do X?), or disambiguation (when you say this, do you mean ...?), or what's on the test, etc.

There are few forward looking questions (what can I use this for? where is it used? what is the state of the art?).

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by Iv on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:56PM (#18520201)
US universities seem terrible.

Mine opened me to a variety of specialties, opinions, skills, cultural movements that I had never seen before.

This was my first contact with unions, entrepreneurs, metalheads, gay community, ultra-christians, drug users, researchers.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by diogenescynic on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:36AM (#18520643)
It’s narrow minded to generalize that massive groups of people think “basically” the same way... I can honestly say that when I went to college, there were definitely people who had a multitude of ideas and opinions—there was no groupthink or even a super majority consensus of opinion. Maybe you went to the wrong school and have a narrow social circle if all the people you know think the same way.
[dead]
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by nixpulvis on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:43PM (#18520162)
I'm a hard liberal, but these days I feel like a conservative. I'm sure I too have been changing in ways, but it's true the buckets have gotten too large and far apart.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by ikeboy on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:47PM (#18520175)
Unless your definition of slaves includes all workers under capitalist regimes, this is wrong. Plenty of conservatives don't think slavery is acceptable.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by WalterBright on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:52PM (#18520184)
I've never run into anyone that did.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by maxxxxx on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:00PM (#18520210)
I have talked to some libertarians that once you push them a little seem to view slavery as a lesser evil than taxes or environmental regulations.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by ikeboy on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:13PM (#18520259)
And some libertarians think that most liberals support slavery by supporting universal healthcare or thinking bakers should have to bake cakes for anyone who wants.

There are a lot of bad framings, and "all conservatives think slavery is ok" is a terrible one

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by WalterBright on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:05PM (#18520229)
But they're still thinking of it as evil.

Slavery is completely anti-ethical to libertarianism.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by maxxxxx on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:25PM (#18520292)
True. I would still argue that they should get their priorities straight. Slavery is much worse than taxation and even mentioning them in the same context is not OK.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by akvadrako on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:08PM (#18520395)
This doesn't make sense. Slavery is obviously a particularly bad form of taxation.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by maxxxxx on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:45PM (#18520482)
I hope you are trying to be funny.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by all2 on Saturday November 24, 2018 @11:02AM (#18522598)
This isn't funny. I'd argue that it is true, though. Taxation, as an idea, is simply the idea of taking something from someone 'for the common welfare' (ie, other people's well being).

Taking everything, including choice, (in essence slavery) could be called a 'tax' using the above definition.

To compare taxes (as they are presently levied against any first world population) to slavery is quite a stretch, though.

Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by akvadrako on Saturday November 24, 2018 @06:37AM (#18521556)
No, I’m saying that even if you think taxes are the only evil possible, slavery is effectively a 100% tax. So there is no possible sense in which it’s less bad.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by someguydave on Friday November 23, 2018 @10:26PM (#18520296)
Is it? What if it is entered into voluntarily?
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by WalterBright on Saturday November 24, 2018 @12:35AM (#18520639)
Your rights are inalienable. This means that you cannot transfer them, even voluntarily. They remain your rights. Slave contracts are worthless for this reason.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by someguydave on Saturday November 24, 2018 @11:12AM (#18522651)
Who defines which rights you have and which ones are inalienable?
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by WalterBright on Sunday November 25, 2018 @03:37AM (#18526004)
Rights are inherent in our nature. They are discovered.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by maxxxxx on Saturday November 24, 2018 @04:34PM (#18524088)
Society.
Re:Going to university does not broaden the mind by AnimalMuppet on Friday November 23, 2018 @09:57PM (#18520203)
I think you just did...