This really summarizes attitudes perfectly. Except there's no need to actually label anything, no one gives a shit about other people's stuff.
It doesn't, though. I'm perfectly happy checking my underwear and dirty tshirts.
But not my camera gear
For example, if you book a flight from the US to London on American Airlines, redeeming miles, you'll be on the hook for around $10 in taxes. If you book the same flight, using American Airlines miles, but happen to be unfortunate enough to get it on their partner British Airways, you'll get dinged for around five hundred dollars in "fuel surcharge".
Last time I checked, Brazil was the only country where this is illegal.
Let's say you decided to make every airline display how much it costs to fly with one checked bag... well, why did you pick one? What if one airline let's you check two bags free? Or if one gives you free food but the other charges? Has more leg room? Etc...
Pricing transparency laws only help things like "you have to include all taxes and fees for the exact item you are selling"
It doesn't help with requiring a company to include certain extras (like a checked bag or two) with the price. You are allowed to choose how you bundle things together, no matter the pricing transparency laws.
Aggregators are capable of asking what city, date and time, how many bodies, which service class, which seat, etc. and returning your menu of options with prices based on those details.
Yet asking "how many bags" and multiplying that by the airline's rate is impossible?
Of course it requires changes. I suspect those happen now and then.
And transparency is not about informing the customer about charges in the fine-print of a website or a menu card. Transparency is being up-front with the total cost so you make it easy for the customer to make an informed choice.
I wholeheartedly agree that tipping should go away. It's literally a remnant of the post slavery age in America and has a nasty habit of lowering workers wages. Another problem is taking dine and dash bills out of the waiters wages. The waiter shouldn't be paying for deadbeats.
So I agree with your general point, just not on the airline baggage example.
short-name: Tray fee
long-name: You get a foldable tray for seat to use during the flight.
price: 39,99
includes-tax: false
This is basic data modeling, really. Tne real thing would probably have closer to 50 well defined fields instead of 4 because of real-world self-inflicted complexity in the system, but the concept is the same.
That is part of the point. You can also have standard prices to quote: "All fees they charge every customer plus one checked bag should be included in price", for example. Airlines that offer bonuses for free will advertise it clearly. After all, we know when a shampoo bottle includes 20% extra shampoo temporarily - I'm not sure this will be an issue. People know that 2 hotels might be the same price but only one of them offers use of a pool - I'm pretty sure they will look at airlines as well.
I heard this argument many times before but never quite understood the explanation. Could you elaborate on this?
The POS system knows how to calculate the cost of each item, why can't they just out that on the sticker instead,.
However if the sale is online and the company has a presence in multiple states they have to charge based on the user, which they cant do until they know who the user is.
Edit: Just to be clear I wish they would put the final price. Here is a picture I found of Pat's King of Steaks in Philadelphia, they have price tax and total for each item.
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/2c/33/c2/...
I think your real issue is against the increased cost of air travel and the inconvenience it poses for travelers who are unwilling or unable to compromise by trading off luggage for price. It sucks, but it’s not “greedy corporations”; it’s just economic reality.
Is this meant to say that consumers aren't price sensitive? If so, why don't airlines just charge arbitrarily high prices?
Yet airlines keep offering me free baggage check at the gate on full flights. I actively try to avoid checking my bags, but I'm usually in boarding Group 3 or 4, so I'm forced to have my bag gate-checked. I hate it. Most people do. Some even try to untag their force-checked bags on the jetway when they see overhead luggage space, and then get told off because that is prohibited. I've resorted to buying an AmazonBasics underseat bag[1] so I never have to check my bag.
For domestic flights, in my experience few people want to check their bags. (exceptions exist of course, like in your case)
For international flights, checking bags is included in the cost of the ticket.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Amazon161214-Underseat-L...
It’s certainly preferred over the hell of trying to get my bags overhead, and also allows you to wait and be the last person on the plane, minimizing time crammed in a tiny seat.
The amount of cumulative time wasted because of stowing bags is immense.
I see how that's convenient, and I would prefer that too. But not to be passive aggressive about it: I don't want to be part of the problem, so I check luggage when I can.
From other people's comments in this thread I see that most people don't give a shit about anyone else, so I guess I'm an exception.
Me too. Is this determined by just price of the ticket. I don't get how I am always group 4.
- Group 0/pre-boarding is active military, disabled, and infants
- Group 1 is first class & mileage club people
- Group 2 is business class
- Group 3/4 is usually economy
- Group 5 is usually the cheapest basic economy people
You can usually get bumped up to Group 2 by getting the airline's credit card or having a bunch of miles
Guaranteed overhead.
Lol
They do fit in most rows except aisle, but even then, because of their small size, they can usually be made to fit in a nearly full overhead compartment (source: recent personal experience). I’ve just returned from traveling around Europe and I can’t count the number of times I’ve managed to avoid inconvenient situations because I didn’t bring a full size rollabord. I’ve even been able to put mine on my lap on a full bus in Spain.
the requirements (law) specifically states that only YOU may carry the opening mechanism for the case, and it must be a hard case. sure they might ask you to open it, but it will be tracked with great vigor, must be in a hard case, and only you can open it.
Of course some destinations won’t let you have a gun...
I may pay $25-$100 more. But not $3000.
Regardless, paying extra $50-$100 on every flight sounds unreasonably high. $10-20 would be more reasonable.
I'm always carry-on even with my free & priority checked bags thanks to status. For business travel, I like to move quickly through the airport. For personal travel, especially international, nothing is worse than pulling around a lot of luggage like a first-time tourist. Those pebble roads, tight commuter trains, and long step-walks in Europe can be a drag. Last month we travelled 21 days across 5 countries with just a carry-on.
In both cases, the airline losing your bag is a real pain to deal with on any trip – happened a lot to me on multi-connects but much less of a problem on directs.
I disagree. It got cheaper and some of the price savings came as a result of removing the old perks(which are still there, but you have to pay for them separately). By the way, checked baggage was never free. There was always a hidden cost that was not reflected in the ticket price.
>Now everyone wants to fly with a mountain climbing backpack
Airlines have gotten better at designing and running routes in such a way that the airplane is as full as it can be. Also after regulations were relaxed airlines now use the hub-spoke model instead of being forced to do direct flights between two small-markets (and thereby making ticket more expensive), which results in, again, full airplanes. Years ago there was a good chance that at any given time I would fly in a half-empty plane, now it rarely happens. I think this is what you're noticing.
> I'm not checking my $10k in camera equipment because people aren't checking their dirty tshirts.
Occasionally I travel with expensive equipment (e.g. I have a high-end mini-PC) and in those cases I opt to pay $20 for zone 1/2 priority boarding so that I put my stuff in the overhead compartment ahead of zone 3/4/5 masses and therefore limit the risk of having it gate-checked. I like that I am able to make that choice, as opposed to not having the choice.
Once everything is accurately priced and tracked, there's no problem with space anymore. They know how many cubic feet of space they have, and they know what they've charged for.
Free additionals that have direct cost to the the provider but may or may not be useful or utilized by the customer are things for luxury products. Overall, everyone is better off (even if they don't feel better off) by paying for what they actually use. The people that lose out are the people that used to use more than their fair share. If you still like the idea of paying one (higher) price and having things like luggage covered, that's what other classes (like premium economy, business and first class) are for. It's called economy class for a reason...
At the very least, I should be guaranteed to have some overhead space without having to fight to get on the plane as early as possible.
In reality, no one knows the dimensions of their bags until the night before, and that's too late for the airline to tell them "no" or add charges reasonably.
[0] https://www.surfdome.us/oakley_luggage_-_oakley_large_roller...
What the hell am I supposed to do?
I would gladly pay money if they allowed me the usual old 23kg standard.
This is not how airlines are operated. In many other countries you get one or two checked bags included in the ticket.
A strange thing occurs as a consequence: you just board the plane, and then the plane goes.
Do you do the weird not-a-queue-but-queueish-blob-of-people thing? No, because there is not a zero-sum game for overhead space.
Do you do the pay-extra-to-spend-longer-in-the-hell-tube thing? No, because there is not a zero-sum game for overhead space.
Do you spend 45 minutes to an hour fucking around with idiots who are trying to spit in the face of both geometry and physics and falling arse-first onto the nose of good manners? Not at all, flights are typically on the runway 15-20 minutes after the first boarding call. There is not a zero-sum game for overhead space.
When I first flew in the USA I thought "something is wrong with my flight". It took me several flights to realise: this is normal here. And it's maddening.
In every flight I find plenty of people (myself included) that don't want to check in baggage, due to mishandling, possibility of loss, delays at the destination, and/or problems with connections. So even in airlines where you get a checked bag with the ticket, I regularly see all those things you say don't happen. Maybe it depends on which part of the rest of the world. I'm from Spain, for the record. At the Madrid airport you will see plenty of people queuing at boarding gates half an hour before they open. Most Spanish airlines even have a paid "priority boarding" option to board first, so people very much want to get into the hell tube sooner...
It's true that all of this is amplified for airlines that charge for checked luggage, though, so I'd rather they don't charge even if I don't want to check in myself. Competition for overhead space gets absolutely crazy when they don't charge.
My point about carry-on is that in other countries, you are strictly limited in what you can carry-on, and thus you either have to take less stuff or get checked luggage (free or otherwise). And guess what? Everything fits and people can just walk to their seat and sit down, as you described
I fail to see why the US has a system where everyone is allowed to take two giant items, and then without fail half the plane has to gate-check and it causes significant slowdowns and frustration. It’s like smacking your head into a wall repeatedly, wondering why your head hurts, and continuing.
I can see why people don’t want to check; short flights for business as so much faster when you don’t have to wait for the baggage carrousel or lost luggage. But when you’ve got a 50% chance of being checked anyway, everything breaks down.
In other countries, the carry-on limit is strictly enforced. They have metal frames to test the size of your luggage, and if it doesn’t slip in, you ain’t taking it on the plane. And a “personal item” isn’t allowed to be a second bag the size of a carry-on suitcase.
If you have too much stuff, tough. Either take less crap or get checked luggage.
I've recent experience of flying with checked luggage which contained multiple AA NiMH rechargable batteries, spare camera batteries, and on one occasion even a fully-charged 16000 mAh power bank.
Not carry that bag on your flight and leave the airline scrambling to reunite passenger with luggage?
Page the passenger (who is almost certainly airside by that point) and try to get them to come (where?) to repack/deal with the contents? I've never heard of a facility where an airside passenger can temporarily get access to hold baggage once it's been screened. Wouldn't the passenger and the hold bag each have to go back through the relevant screening channel after this interaction?
I've checked batteries dozens of times and never give it a second thought. As it turns out, I had two sets of brand-new NiMH AAs in my checked luggage this morning.
I can tell you exactly what they do as this happened to me ~9 months ago when I had inadvertently left an e-cigarette in a checked suitcase. I was indeed paged (I was airside) to report to a service desk, where the (quite friendly) staff led me through secure areas into the bowels of the airport, where my suitcase was awaiting me on what could be described as an "off-ramp" to the baggage roller system. I was then requested to open my suitcase and retrieve the offending item, did so, and all was well.
> I've checked batteries dozens of times and never give it a second thought
I suspect that if you start travelling through more modern airports with the kind of enhanced screening that got me you'll definitely be giving it a second thought... I also have checked them dozens of times but as screening gets updated it's looking like a thing of the past.
[No snark intended but] can you give us a definition of "modern" so I can compare against where I usually check my batteries from?
OT, but I did once attempt to get a hot chocolate brownie with ice-cream topping through gate security at FRA; the x-ray operator was fine with it but his colleague called the supervisor over. I was eating it (quickly) while she and I were debating whether ice-cream was "a liquid", she really didn't like that. I handed the last 1/10th back :)
Ah, I should have probably said "airports with modern equipment" as I presume this stuff is susceptible to periodic updates regardless of the age of the airport. I suppose it does need a fairly recent baggage management system. For reference, it happened to me at Adelaide airport in Australia, which is about 10 years old. I guess then by modern I mean any first-world airport built within the last decade or so?
As noted I've flown with li-on and everything else in checked baggage a million times too and it was the first time it happened to me, so I assume the mandate is fairly recent.
That story is ridiculous, but makes me wonder what would happen if you tried to bring through a frozen bottle of water?
Not only for stray batteries, it's screened for all kinds of things, including drugs, bombs and other non-allowed items or dangerous stuff.
To my knowledge, if they do find something, you'll have some security guards come up to you and escort you to a separate section of the airport where you will be unpacking your luggage and remove the offending item, then repackage and you can go on (or not if the offense is too great to ignore).
I'm saying I have dozens of personal counter-examples to this claim, including another one from this morning, specifically relating to travelling with checked luggage containing batteries.
Hypothesis #1: maybe the "no batteries" policy is nowhere near as strictly enforced as people think it is?
Hypothesis #2: maybe other aspects of aviation security are nowhere near as strictly enforced as people think they are?
Who knows, maybe it is mostly security theatre?
IIRC the US has the TSA but Airports can outsource to other third parties if the TSA permits it.
I don't see how that question is really relevant considering your bag will be atleast xrayed by one of the two at some point.
1. Open the luggage themselves
2. Remove the item containing the battery
3. Replace it with a note saying that the item was removed
4. Close the luggage back up
5. Put the luggage back on the plane
6. Discard the item
What are you going to do, sue them? Post bad things about them on social media?
If 'X' is genuinely dangerous, then always deal with X as if it were actually dangerous[1]; if X is however not dangerous, stop pretending.
[1] for instance the policy of confiscating >100ml bottles of liquid at airport security "because reasons" then have agents simply stuff these dangerous liquids into one large bin and leave them there at the screening point for hours.
Whether or not that is "sane" or "right" or "wrong" isn't material to my counter-point.
Where is this rare? I have never bought an airline ticket, even in bare-bones economy, flying for business or leisure, with and without status, and not got an included checked bag. This is flying British Airways, United, Lufthansa, Delta, American, Japan, etc etc
Spirit, at least, does the right thing and charges $5 more to carry a typical bag onboard.
I remember being blown away by the service I got on Singapore and Malaysia Airlines. Great food, decent amount of leg room, flight attendants that don't have complete and utter contempt for everyone that isn't in Business class or above, and free alcohol. That is until I realized they weren't that special, the North American companies were just significantly worse at pretty much all aspects of the flying experience. Often times the North American companies with their fees aren't even saving you much money, or none at all if you plan well, so its an easy choice when your flight is at least 12 hours. The dream would be to have them compete and operate domestic flights as well. It would be great to go from Chicago to Dulles on ANA instead of United.
Even if you have elite status with BA, you won't get an free checked bag if you book such a fare[1]. LH are temporarily "as a goodwill rule" allowing their elites and star alliance gold elites to get one free checked bag on 'Light' fares[2].
1. https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/baggage-ess...
No, I'm not checking my $10k in camera equipment because people aren't checking their dirty tshirts.