News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by PowerfulWizard on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @01:56PM (#17560594)
The bad news:

- They changed the gun emoji to be a water gun, which has a totally different meaning. This retroactively changes previous writings, changing their meaning. What kind of writing system allows people to change your words after you've written them? Emoji is a trash writing system and an agent of kipplization.

- Emoji is controlled by corporations that are concerned with maximizing the value of their platforms which will lead them to a PG13, disneyfied, milquetoast worldview.

The good news:

- In the entire human history, it has never been easier to create and publish text, audio, or video works of any kind. The most popular platforms have severe limitations, but it only takes the slightest effort to use other platforms that are uncensored.

- There is plenty of free software that can give you pixel-level control over your output, you don't need to rely on the unicode consortium or any other organization of any kind to determine what you express.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by codingdave on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:41PM (#17560983)
> What kind of writing system allows people to change my words after I've written them?

Any kind of writing system allows this. Translation changes the words, and can change meaning. People can mis-quote. And yes, over time, meanings of words change, as do the cultural contexts from which they came. None of this is unique to emojis.

The truth is that all communication has at least two parties, and there is never a guarantee that the receiver will get the message as intended. Even if you do craft "pixel-perfect" emojis, people still can (and likely will) mis-understand the nuances of your intended message.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by quotemstr on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:02PM (#17561166)
There is a difference between organic shifts in language use over time and forced shifts made by an influential few motivated by some misguided urge to improve society by limiting the range of thought.

Think of the word "gun". The image that entered your mind just now was not a water gun. It was a weapon, the kind of device the gun emoji used to depict and now no longer does.

The people forcing this kind of change want you to associate the concept of a gun with a water gun or other toy, and they think that by changing your though pattern this way, they'll make society safer.

This is terrifying and totalitarian idea. Once you buy into the idea that you can force a change to the language to achieve your desired social aims, there's no intrusion into private life that you will be unable to justify.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:29PM (#17561392)
> The people forcing this kind of change want you to associate the concept of a gun with a water gun or other toy, and they think that by changing your though pattern this way, they'll make society safer.

Very Orwellian. In 1984, that was the point of Newspeak - to make it impossible to express certain ideas.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by ekphrasis on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:27PM (#17561789)
Yes, but as the author of the article argues, the emoji icon of an eggplant has been culturally interpreted with a different semiotic meaning. The same could very well happen with the emoji icon of a watergun (despite the emoji’s semiotic shift), indicating a symbolic duplexity in the meaning of a handgun.

I.e., if you choose to mean a handgun when writing a watergun, the emoji’s meaning can change.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by mc32 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @05:12PM (#17562101)
This very much reminds me of the CCP banning words online and then people coming up with new “synonyms” to bypass the ban, then that gets banned and new phrases words take its place and it goes on...
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by smhost on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @05:01PM (#17562027)
Yeah, such a tragedy for all those native emoji speakers
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by ben174 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @05:14PM (#17562114)
> native emoji speakers

Anyone born in the last dozen or so years.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by retox on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @09:29PM (#17563374)
See also the recent change to the Google salad emoji to remove eggs and make the salad 'vegan friendly'. https://www.cnet.com/news/google-removes-egg-from-salad-emoj...
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by paulddraper on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:00PM (#17561137)
When "gay" changed from "happy" to "homosexual", it (1) took many years (starting over a hundred years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay) and (2) happened as hundreds of millions of English speakers came to a consensus -- or at least an overwhelming acceptance -- about the word.

When "pistol" changed to mean "toy gun", it (1) happened in two years and (2) was decided by an oligarchy of actors (and not even the Unicode Consortium oligarchy).

Can you spot the difference?

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by michaelt on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:53PM (#17561966)
I'm not sure time-to-change is all that relevant; it didn't take 100 years for the eggplant emoji to come to mean "penis"
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by LocalH on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @05:04PM (#17562048)
It also didn't come to mean that at the behest of those in control of the glyphs. It came to mean that in an organic, even memetic fashion. That's the difference.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by xapata on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:07PM (#17561208)
Slang can change rapidly based on current events.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:23PM (#17561353)
It doesn't change very often due to top-down orders, though...
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by notahacker on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:42PM (#17561484)
It didn't in this case either, it changed because a group of private platform vendors decided they agreed with the rationale one of the other vendors had for changing something.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:12PM (#17561705)
Why do you not consider that to be "top down orders"? Sure, the orders came from a few execs at a few companies, rather than from the president, but it still looks top-down to me. Specifically it looks top-down in contrast to slang changing rapidly due to current events (which was the original context), which involves a bunch of people having a new reference point, and choosing to use that in their speech.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by reitanqild on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:54PM (#17561575)
So not very far away from an oligarchy as paulddraper pointed out?
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by drb91 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:20PM (#17561328)
Not a valid comparison. The eggplant emoji might mean something other than eggplant, but if you change it to a watermelon you can’t even recognize it as the same symbol, let alone guess at the intended meaning. This is why it’s disturbing: it actively obscures interpretation.

Granted, I’m assuming historians will use the emoji set at time of writing, but that’s not trivially available.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by setr on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:58PM (#17561124)
Meaning changes over time, but the words you've written usually dont. They might be interpreted differently in the future, but when you said gun, you said the word gun.

In the case of emoji, we're aceepting the idea that when I said gun, I in fact did not say gun, I said water gun. You can interpret the water gun as gun or water gun, but really I never said gun

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by icebraining on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:47PM (#17561517)
Thing is, if you said gun in 2015 to owners of a Windows Phone, they heard laser pistol. Emojis were never an universal standard, just a broad approximation.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by setr on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @05:06PM (#17562062)
Even so, at least you have the chance to be aware of that; if I typed this sentence using emoji, its impossible to know what it will appear as in 5 years, without seeing into the future.

this comment could be interpreted as a threat 50 years down the line, by the change of meaning over time, but any sane person understanding that history and context matter, with knowledge of how it would be interpreted today, would realize its not. But if we applied the same acceptance to text as we do with emoji, the whole thing could be changed such that in both this time, and 50 years from now, it would be interpreted as a threat. The same context argument could apply, but I'm also sure defenders of the change would also not see the need to maintain a log of how things have been changed, as I doubt they care about emoji changes today.

The words themselves aren't simply appearing differently; they're changing, right from under my feet. The only defense is that (afaik) the unicode assortium has not changed yet changed the naming for it (ie CRYING FACE EMOJI), but since no one in practice refers to that definition, its not a useful defense.

Thus, emoji in their current form are highly inappropriate as a medium of communication, except in the very limited use case of short-lived, impermanent, and same-implementation communications.

But since this constraint is not the intention of the unicode consortium, and this is not the intention of the groups/font-creators that support emoji, and this is not a limitation that the general user expects, then this is a very poor design.

Emojis have been accepted as intentionally corruptible communications, but no party involved actually realizes the implications of it. We don't change ascii (ignoring the latter 127 characters, which are open to any interpretation) except by accident and by intentional non-meaningful changes (changing fonts does not change the characters themselves, just their aesthetics [except I guess wingbats]), and everyone would throw a fit if they did, because the notion is absurd

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by deong on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:39PM (#17561464)
Sure, but all of those are different than an admin at hacker news doing an

    UPDATE posts SET text="I hate brown people" WHERE post_id=17560983
to make you look like a racist (or whatever they wanted to alter your comment to look as though you had written it). That type of editing doesn't naturally occur and is more like the type of changed meaning we're talking about here.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:55PM (#17561577)
This. Look at how words like "infringe", "unreasonable", and "speedy" in the US constitution have become significantly less meaningful over time.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by specialist on Thursday July 19, 2018 @08:05AM (#17565479)
Continuing your point...

Fonts and rendering and apps will change just like compilers and source and runtimes. aka bit rot.

---

Want to preserve your output? Then print to PDF with embedded fonts. Or use screenshots.

Want to be able to recreate your output? Then treat your content like devs treat their software.

I used to write prepress and print manufacturing software. I also did a tour of duty as our tech writer. Our team's entire publishing workflow got a lot more sane when I treated it like any other dev task.

Make dependencies explicit, use source control, pin down versions of apps, drivers, fonts, OSes, etc (aka colophon).

Our "build servers" even had VMware images, containing our desktop publishing apps, used to automate PostScript, PDF, and web output.

(This is long before Chef & Ansible, CI/CD, etc. Kids today have no idea how good they got it.)

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by PurpleBoxDragon on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:21PM (#17561334)
>Any kind of writing system allows this.

The meaning of the words will change over time, but not the words themselves. So someone who reads it will know what the words written actually were, and just have to lookup any differences in meeting between when the words were written and now.

Imagine for a second if we took Shakespeare and rewrote it with modern day English, and then made the claim the new version is the original Shakespeare... I think we would see the problem with that. But that is what happened with emoji. It isn't that people look back, see as collections of pixels, and realize now those pixels mean water gun while in the past they meant firearm. When they look back, they see water gun.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by masklinn on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:30PM (#17561404)
> The meaning of the words will change over time, but not the words themselves.

1. orthography also changes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s)

2. the purpose of words is to communicate concepts, if the meaning of the word changes the word itself has changed, reducing a word to its mere orthography is nonsensical

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by PurpleBoxDragon on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:13PM (#17561712)
>orthography also changes

Not of things already written down. The long S written in the Constitution is still there. It has not changed, and there would be outrage for anyone to go and change it. Changing the emoji from one meaning to another would be like changing the encoding of utf-8 so that a now means e and e means a, meaning that and and end flips in every utf-8 encoded file that is viewed.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by paulddraper on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:38PM (#17561453)
Would you see any issues with Apple changing the orthography of the character f from "f" to "g"?
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by artpepper2 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @05:02PM (#17562037)
guck yes!
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by smsm42 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:47PM (#17561923)
That's a completely different problem. Both translation and interpretation does not change the original text, only your interpretation of it. Messing with Unicode glyphs kinda does (well not if you go back to U+CODES, but nobody consumes texts this way).
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by drostie on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:36PM (#17560946)
> What kind of writing system allows people to change your words after you've written them?

File this away under "myths programmers believe about language," with some bullet points like,

- A word or symbol will always have one meaning.

- Okay, but at least those meanings will stay the same over the next decade.

- The next year?!

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by azeirah on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:47PM (#17561035)
There is a very clear and distinct difference between words changing meaning over time, and drastically changing the appearance of a word or symbol in previously written texts.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by drostie on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:27AM (#17566028)
No, there isn't.

Words change meaning because your present-eyes are different from past-eyes.

The gun symbol has changed meaning because your present client is different from past clients.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by PowerfulWizard on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:06PM (#17561195)
I expect at least to be able to view the sequence of symbols that was emitted by the author. Because the majority of writing is digital, and because of the way it is stored, I think changing the emoji is especially deceptive and malicious, but emoji are so silly anyway it is hard to get really properly upset about it.

In my opinion if the people that changed the gun emoji had done it by introducing a new watergun emoji, replaced the gun with watergun on the keyboards, and declined to make their devices capable of emitting the sequence of bytes representing the gun, I would have been fine with that, and for their preening purposes I think that would have been sufficient. I'd consider that annoying and rude, but not malicious. If you have a unicode text file with the gun emoji, and you don't know when it was written, you genuinely can't tell what the author wrote as a symbol, even ignoring all the complexities of language, almost as if the word was blurred, and you can't tell between two possibilities.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by 49531 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:56PM (#17561104)
Yea wasn't a big problem we faced during the early days of nuclear technology was creating a symbol that would convey danger over long periods of time, in a world where language is constantly changing.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by c22 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @11:22PM (#17563737)
I'm pretty sure this is still considered an open problem.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by jerkstate on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:24PM (#17561363)
> Emoji is a trash writing system

I read this as "Emoji is a recycling bin writing system"

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by jhanschoo on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @05:38PM (#17562291)
It seems to me that as long as emoji is kept out of serious and mass communications, the variability and imprecision of emoji is no big deal. We engage in imprecise expressions all the time like "urgh", "ew", "yay", and rely on more precise words to clarify the message when the situation calls for it. At the moment, emoji seems to be used in the same class as those imprecise interjections, and I don't see it acquiring technical, precise use anytime soon, given how unwieldy it is to use compared to the 26 characters.

So just as a ballet dance, or a particular performance of it, isn't the right medium for world leaders to express international political sentiment, similarly, emoji should not be expected to convey any precise sentiment in critical situations. The author says as much:

>If emoji are to become adequate vehicles for discussing public health, the legal system, and art, their depictions need to be molded by users rather than a handful of software companies.

I don't think anybody is seriously considering the use of emoji in the way in its current mode of usage for communication when precision is needed. In the first place, there is no standard pronunciation of emoji characters, which in itself is sufficent to make their use in formal documents an iffy suggestion. Arguably, if we ever standardize a reading/interpretation of emoji, the concern raised by the author becomes rendered moot and the choice of graphic representation becomes a stylistic one.

When we consider the current imprecise nature of emoji, message corruption due to companies somewhat altering the precise meaning of the emoji become much less significant.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by castlecrasher2 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:24PM (#17561362)
Those arguing with you are clearly missing the point. Yes, language can evolve, but emoji are essentially variable expressions interpreted on read by the system reading them. Sure, the meaning of a given word can change over time such that a later reader misunderstands but this is like a blind person having someone read a novel aloud to him one year and the next the reader changes words arbitrarily.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by madrox on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:54PM (#17561093)
> What kind of writing system allows people to change your words after you've written them?

East of Eden's third act is a whole debate about how to interpret "timshel" from the original bible into English, and how those interpretations have warped our thinking.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by naravara on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:46PM (#17561021)
>What kind of writing system allows people to change your words after you've written them?

The kind that gave us this: https://i.imgur.com/pfkBj1D.jpg Edit: Turns out this one's a photoshop

or this: http://jokeindex.com/images/batman/batman06.jpg

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by FroshKiller on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:52PM (#17561070)
The "solid dick" speech balloon is a Photoshop. The original panel says "solid advice."
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by naravara on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:57PM (#17561591)
Oops, I didn't realize. Edited in a disclaimer, thanks.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by Redoubts on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:21PM (#17561332)
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by slavik81 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:45PM (#17561915)
The meaning hasn't changed. That's an intentional double entendre.

It's still pretty common. Dyck Insurance was just running radio ads a couple years ago with the slogan "Everybody loves Dyck".

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by cryptonector on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:49PM (#17561936)
> What kind of writing system allows people to change your words after you've written them?

Er, this happens all the time, writing or not. So many words in the languages I speak fluently have changed meaning over hundreds of years -- especially in French!

This is not a bad thing, provided the rate of redefinition is low enough and that we record the changes so we can understand older writings.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by baddox on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:53PM (#17561975)
That's a pretty different phenomenon that probably usually occurs much more slowly and not at the whim of a small number of powerful people/organizations.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by cryptonector on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @06:21PM (#17562540)
No, it occurs at the whim of the people. I don't know the etymology of it, but I suspect that the "make-out" meaning of "embracer" in French was not a result of "powerful people/organizations" pushing it.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by booleandilemma on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:21PM (#17561333)
Emoji is controlled by corporations that are concerned with maximizing the value of their platforms which will lead them to a PG13, disneyfied, milquetoast worldview.

I wouldn’t worry too much. People will combat this with creative workarounds, such as using the eggplant emoji to represent a penis.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by brokenmachine on Friday July 20, 2018 @01:42AM (#17572753)
> What kind of writing system allows people to change your words after you've written them?

Ever heard of this book called The Bible? People have been changing the meaning of stuff in there for thousands of years.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by kbutler on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @07:15PM (#17562816)
> This retroactively changes previous writings,

This is an overblown/not new concern - emojis have always rendered according to the client platform, so you never knew if, for example, your :-D was going to be a big smile or a laugh to the recipient.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by fierro on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:58PM (#17561596)
Can we gather a list of all those who feel their messages involving the revolver emoji has been harmfully misinterpreted now that it's a water gun emoji? I think the damage of this could be far reaching
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by skookumchuck on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:43PM (#17561900)
Automated politically correct software in the past has "corrected" text like "Jim Bowman" to "Jim Archer".
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by anonu on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @11:34PM (#17563778)
Kipplization... I like that. Had to look it up. But ok... I'll use it.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by stcredzero on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:12PM (#17560735)
They changed the gun emoji to be a water gun, which has a totally different meaning. This retroactively changes previous writings, changing their meaning.

From the op:

In his novel The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Milan Kundera linked this kind of forced conformity to a fascist government’s unbounded desire for control, and its efforts to limit expression to kitsch, a cartoonish denial of objective reality

This is also a historical feature of communist governments. All governments, and all societies, in as much as they lose a commitment to individual rights, will tend to grab more and more control in pursuit of difficult goals. It's yet another thing that seems "nice" but which has disturbing implications under the surface for free speech, like Canadian Bill C-16.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by fhood on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:19PM (#17560802)
So wait, does that make Apple fascists or communists? Wouldn't want to grab the wrong pitchfork.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by gojomo on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:43PM (#17560997)
In the prophetic taxonomy of the Dead Kennedys' California Über Alles (https://genius.com/Dead-kennedys-california-uber-alles-lyric...), they're 'Zen fascists':

    Zen fascists will control you
    100% natural
    You will jog for the master race
    And always wear the happy face
Though today, they'd be more "fleece/denim secret police".
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by imnotlost on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:26PM (#17560866)
I think they meant authoritarian, they come in all political stripes
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by snerbles on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:24PM (#17560851)
It would more accurately be described as corporate-flavored collectivism.

Of course, that doesn't make for a good ingredient in angry epithets.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by stcredzero on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:02PM (#17561165)
Frank Herbert once made the observation that corporate hierarchies were very similar to feudal hierarchies, just with milder consequences for disloyalty and failure. (The hierarchies within organized crime are even closer to the feudal ones, even including the feudal ceremonial trappings. This even works across cultures, where Japanese organized crime harkens back to feudal Japan and Italian/Sicilian organized crime harkens back to medieval and rennaissance Italy.) Along this line of thinking, corporate flavored collectivism should be structurally similar to Stalinist USSR, including the requirement for ideological conformity. However, the branding is likely to be far, far different.

Corporations certainly have purges. Happens all the time after mergers.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by kanox on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:27PM (#17560878)
Both, this is why the apple bite is shaped like a horseshoe.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by fifnir on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:27PM (#17560880)
"authoritarians"
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by ggg9990 on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:29PM (#17560889)
Fascists and communists are both animated by the same principle: that Papa knows best and must be obeyed.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by paulddraper on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:24PM (#17561361)
Fascism and communism are not complete opposites.

Both are authoritarian political philosophies with a heavy handed approach to economic policies.

Differences come in privatization, immigration, equality of rights, and religious toleration. [1]

Both have extreme takes on ideas falling under the umbrella of socialist thought (hence, Germany's National Socialist Workers party). You can argue 1984 vs Brave New World, but there are certainly common themes.

Both differ significantly from classical liberalism.

[1] http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/ideo...

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by stcredzero on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @07:04PM (#17562755)
A friend of mine also pointed out that they appear to have different attitudes towards hierarchy. At least, the Marxist derived authoritarians brand themselves as egalitarian -- though they usually go ahead and have hierarchy anyway, having it both ways. Fascists and Nazis also seem to emphasize community while extolling elites, great men, and meritocratic hierarchy -- also having it both ways. It's just that the branding is different.
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by msla on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:01PM (#17561147)
> Emoji is a trash writing system

No more trash than any other.

Plus... I'm amused at your use of "trash" in that way, given your horror of signifiers changing significance.

> There is plenty of free software that can give you pixel-level control over your output, you don't need to rely on the unicode consortium or any other organization of any kind to determine what you express.

... the whole point of having a writing system is having a standard writing system, at least de facto, and without the Unicode Consortium, there would be some other standards body because that's how computer software works. That other standards body would be worse than the Unicode Consortium by virtue of not being the Unicode Consortium, and therefore being either irrelevant or an agent which destroys cross-platform compatibility.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by thaumasiotes on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:30PM (#17561818)
>> Emoji is a trash writing system

> No more trash than any other.

This isn't accurate. Writing systems excluding emoji are used to communicate linguistically. Emoji are not a linguistic phenomenon; they have semantics, but they have no syntax or pronunciation. That's why there's so much anxiety about the image a recipient sees matching the image you sent -- nobody cares if they send a message in one font and the recipient views it in a different font, because there is agreement on what an A is, what an f is, etc.

Compare the traditional Chinese character for "come", 來. This is a picture of a stalk of wheat, but people wanted to talk about coming, and they borrowed a word that sounded the same so they could write it down. "Wheat" was originally written this way too, but the concept of coming was so common that "wheat" was driven to a different character, 麥. This all works because the characters are being used to write a language rather than to free-associate based on some pictures which have no specified relationship to each other or anything else. Emoji do not fit in Unicode because they are not part of a writing system. They're a hack for sending image data without having to send the full image over the wire.

All languages are completely dependent on a set of words that have no semantic value at all, like the English word "of". Emoji do not support these, and if they did, they wouldn't be emoji.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by PowerfulWizard on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:28PM (#17561387)
I like the english language and writing system, it is the most useful thing I know and I can easily read books from 200 years ago. Here is a 150 year old engineering text book that I can read with relative ease: https://archive.org/stream/manualofcivileng00rankuoft#page/8... . Emoji is a joke and is mainly used for decoration.

I agree regarding the Unicode Consortium, the reason I have that under "good news" is that the publication tools we have now are immensely better than what there was in the past, and we can overcome the limitations of reliance on anyone using existing tools. Even though there is a cost, the cost is lower than ever.

Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by polotics on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:15PM (#17561275)
Ok so, anyways: what's the unicode value for the unbearable lightness of being?
Re:The Absolute Denial of Shit by lainga on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:23PM (#17561356)
:forbidden: (ZWJ) :bear: (ZWJ) :on!_symbol: (ZWJ) :flashlight: (ZWJ) :bee: (ZWJ) :ng_symbol: