News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by squarefoot on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:33AM (#17462710)
It is extremely important not to lose focus on the problem because they're going to try again and again to pass it, one way or another. They'll never stop: it's about profit both for the corporations bribing for those laws and the politicians being bribed to push for them, so they'll just keep pushing until they find the right weapon of mass distraction to keep the public attention away.

Also it is important to keep in mind the old tricks used to pass bad laws: they push initially for worse laws then after public protest they slowly step back to the initial goal to pretend people were listened to, so that not only they get what they wanted, but the public is also being fooled into believing their protest were successful and they have politicians who actually listen to them. How lucky!

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by smolsky on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:42PM (#17466189)
{quote} Also it is important to keep in mind the old tricks used to pass bad laws: they push initially for worse laws then after public protest they slowly step back to the initial goal to pretend people were listened to, so that not only they get what they wanted, but the public is also being fooled into believing their protest were successful and they have politicians who actually listen to them. {end quote}

That's called haggling or bargaining and is old as the notion of trade.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ryanmonroe on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:02PM (#17466336)
Yes, GP even specifically referred to them as "old tricks". But even though the strategy is old, many people do not perceive the process that way so it's worth pointing out.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Semiapies on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:23PM (#17467724)
Sounds more like a paranoid description of how almost all political change, positive or negative, happens. You push for what you want, but if that gets too much opposition, you moderate your proposal the next go-round.

The other approach, of course, is to pursue incremental change. In the same "ZOMG tricks" lens, that's boiling-the-frog-slowly.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by TheSpiceIsLife on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:08PM (#17467938)
You push for what you want

No, you push for massive overreach. You never start negotiations asking for what you want.

Then it goes to an "election", the "opposition" party (come on, they all drink at the same bars, do lines of coke in the same toilets) wins, and the "watered down" bill basses with bipartisan support.

We don't live in democracies. Two reasons:

1. regular employees don't get a "winter break"

and

2. Until we have real time visibility of political donations, filtered through an anti-corruption body, we can't know whether the people in government deserve, or are eligible, to be there.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by kalleboo on Friday July 06, 2018 @12:52AM (#17468939)
> 1. regular employees don't get a "winter break"

We're talking about the EU here, everyone gets 4-6 weeks off a year

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by flexie on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:59AM (#17469757)
Indeed. I find the ignorance about the European labor market amazing.

Not only do most Europeans get our 4-6 weeks of paid vacation. We also don't subtract any sick days from vacation days as is common in the US. We also get paid while sick. In some places by the employer, in some places by the government. Sometimes full pay, sometimes a reduced amount. We also have excellent government paid health care. We also have long termination notices. We have protection for temporary workers (so generally few Europeans work in Amazon jobs with day laborers picked up in the outskirts of the cities). Working weeks are typically 35-40 hours. We have protection for part time workers too. They can not be discriminated against. We have 1-3 years paid maternity leave. In some countries it's paid by employer (with refund from government), in other places it's paid by government directly. Usually the pay is part of salary. We have high participation of women in the labor market. We have paid paternity or parental leaves that are often longer than the American maternity leaves. We have government or labor union set minimum wages but most people make more than the minimum wages. Very few Europeans hold two jobs. If we lose our job, we have various welfare payouts and most importantly; we don't lose healthcare. At the end of working life, Europeans retire with public pensions and private supplements.

Now, there are variations from country to country since not all of the above is EU based; actually little of it is. I am speaking as someone who live in Denmark, Spain, the US and now Bulgaria. Every country in Europe has more of one thing and less of another. In Denmark, for example, the paid maternity leave is only at around one year, and women get paid what amounts to only a small fraction of their salary. In Bulgaria it's up to 3 years, of the first is 90 percent of salary, the second is around minimum wage and the third is without pay.

But generally speaking, European workers live a very sheltered and, I would say, privileged working life. I have yet to meet Europeans fearing loosing a job the way Americans do.

[dead]
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by dang on Friday July 06, 2018 @02:42AM (#17469439)
Please don't break the HN guidelines by calling names.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Semiapies on Monday July 09, 2018 @08:08PM (#17494435)
I didn't call anyone a name. I characterized the "nowhere is a real democracy" rhetoric as anarchist wank. It's a spiel I have no time for, after talking to enough of these people.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by lovich on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:44PM (#17468098)
The US at least is barely a democracy. We are much closer to an oligopoly than anything else.

If you really think we are a democracy, then do you think someone in the US could win the presidency with a good platform and no money, versus someone with a bad platform and a lot of money?

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ggg9990 on Friday July 06, 2018 @02:44AM (#17469448)
Trump’s election was the most democratic thing in perhaps the history of US politics. Maybe 1% of oligopolists supported him before the primaries and many prominent Republicans didn’t even support him when he had the nomination. In the wake of 2016 one could easily argue that US politics has become far more democratic (the founding fathers intended it to be much less democratic than it has become).

This shows that “democracy” is not a synonym for “good governance.”

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by wiz21c on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:04AM (#17469528)
>>> This shows that “democracy” is not a synonym for “good governance.”

much like law and justice...

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by isostatic on Friday July 06, 2018 @07:23AM (#17470519)
"Laws change depending on who's making them, but justice is justice." -- Odo (A Man Alone)

Star Trek has lots of wisdom, growing up in the 90s was a great time

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by slededit on Thursday July 05, 2018 @10:49PM (#17468509)
Its much more interesting to see somebody neither party wanted win the presidency.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by tiles on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:54PM (#17468720)
But it makes for horrible, horrible governance.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by coretx on Friday July 06, 2018 @04:32AM (#17469860)
If you can't convince HN, confuse them? On topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window Now please allow me to smear you with terrorism or tin foil hats in case i can't find any further arguments. It's only fair since you dropped the paranoid smear already. ;-)
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by inimino on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:42PM (#17468320)
These two are both as old as the hills and well known to people who read sales manuals as the "door in the face" and "foot in the door" techniques respectively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by vsl on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:47AM (#17469714)
> problem because they're going to try again and again to pass it, one way or another.

Err, this simply means that EP didn’t rubber-stamp the proposal, as happens most of the time, but that the plenary will vote on it in September, and MEPs may propose amendments.

I.e. what should be a standard democratic process, but isn’t in EU for some time how.

They will not “try again” - attempt one is still ongoing and may very well succeed due to gross misunderstandings of the process and the general impression among people that the battle was won and it’s over.

It really isn’t just yet.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by mehrdadn on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:51AM (#17470372)
Wow, thanks for clearing this up. It reminds me very much of the AT&T thing regarding net neutrality in California. I thought it was over there too, but at they suddenly slipped in a win for themselves at the last minute.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by narrator on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:20PM (#17466010)
There are many people who are paid to get up every morning and get this law passed in one form or another. They do it every day for the rest of their lives and they get paid handsomely for it. That's why they never give up.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ryrobes on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:40PM (#17466175)
I recall seeing a tweet this morning stating the same for ethics committees in academic research papers. Students are being taught to put questionable things in - that are easy to excise. They get challenged, remove the red herring, and are approved since the "offended party" feels appeased.

Anyways, Interesting analog. Intellectual dishonestly aside...

I have no first hand knowledge, but it seems highly probable.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by stcredzero on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:51PM (#17466248)
Students are being taught to put questionable things in - that are easy to excise. They get challenged, remove the red herring, and are approved since the "offended party" feels appeased.

I've heard similar stories with regards to censors. I've also seen it at work with release reviews. Pointy-haired management was given something obvious to correct, to keep them from thinking of something out of left field.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by drtillberg on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:19PM (#17467994)
It's a weak strategy. If you make an obvious error in many contexts you are very likely to (at best) invite a cascade of critique that otherwise would have been skipped. At worst, you'll be written off permanently as a fool, fired and/or sued.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by stcredzero on Friday July 06, 2018 @12:26PM (#17472701)
It's a weak strategy. If you make an obvious error in many contexts you are very likely to (at best) invite a cascade of critique that otherwise would have been skipped.

It depends on who is on the other end. Against someone who isn't that intelligent, who prioritizes and really just wants to show their dominance, it can work great. Against a genuinely observant and intelligent perfectionist, it's the wrong move.

I've seen it done with alignment and spelling errors. The pointy haired boss feels superior and useful in their attention to detail, and everyone has their needs fulfilled.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by dannyw on Friday July 06, 2018 @02:09AM (#17469302)
It's probably better to not include an 'obvious' error, but a plausible error that has some degree of subjectivity.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by acqq on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:47PM (#17466220)
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ryrobes on Thursday July 05, 2018 @05:56PM (#17467205)
Hah, that is a great story.

Reminds me of ancedotes of devs intentionally wasting ram in old school console game development; locking it up in some obscure way; just so that at the 11th hour, you can remove it and claim "amazing optimizations". ;)

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by woolvalley on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:31PM (#17466564)
I've done it in code reviews, especially with picky people.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ouid on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:55PM (#17466276)
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pietroglyph on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:57PM (#17466783)
This is the origin of the term "bike-shedding"!
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by momentmaker on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:19AM (#17463944)
Sounds like they learn from Influence by Caldini. Ask for a far-fetched goal then conceded to what you want originally.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by iiv on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:12PM (#17466398)
Well, it's a very old trick. Probably several thousand years, as long as people have traded. Don't give credit to Caldini just because he wrote a popular book!
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by hueving on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:26PM (#17466514)
That's basic negotiating 101. Probably older than the pyramids.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by neonate on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:04PM (#17465868)
Which chapter is that in? I don't remember that from the book.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by chx on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:13PM (#17466406)
We need liquid democracy. This current system is broken.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by HumanDrivenDev on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:14PM (#17466414)
The EU are masters at this. See: the Lisbon treaty.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ttepasse on Thursday July 05, 2018 @05:02PM (#17466822)
Bad example. The Lisbon treaty was voted down by the Irish in the first referendum. But then the EU made changes in the controversial areas and then the Irish were asked again. And they were happy with the changes and as such with the 2.0 of the treaty.

My point is: changes.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by loup-vaillant on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:08PM (#17467277)
They had a second referendum? France wasn't so lucky. Our government in its unfathomable wisdom foresaw that the people wouldn't listen to reason if they were entrusted with this decision a second time (we voted no the first time, by a wide margin). So they did the smart thing, and asked the parliament instead. The result was as predictable as it was different.

So yeah, changes. Not just what, though. Who. You gotta ask the right person to have the right answer, democracy be dammed.

(Just to be clear, I will resent them for a long time for this. Representatives should not be able to override the people's direct decisions.)

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by isostatic on Friday July 06, 2018 @07:26AM (#17470534)
> Representatives should not be able to override the people's direct decisions

So if you want to get something passed, you brainwash 1/4 of the population to demand it.

I'd rather my laws were divorced from manipulated emotion

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by shawn on Thursday July 05, 2018 @10:36AM (#17463555)
It seems time for a double-jeopardy type law for laws. If a law tries and fails to pass, there should be a cooldown period. Possibly a decade.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by cyphar on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:45AM (#17464167)
Aside from the obvious loopholes (how do you define two laws as being the same -- and what stops your opponent from intentionally sabotaging a law they know you'd want to pass?) there are some other practical issues.

If it applied to all laws, you could pretty easily imagine some negative consequences (attempts for marriage equality or suffrage could have been delayed by decades if the opposition tried to introduce laws in a way that would be guaranteed to not pass). And what if the circumstances change within that decade so that an old law proposal now makes much more sense.

I do think that the law-making process should have quite a few more safeguards. The way that after-the-fact amendments work (in America or Australia for instance) is quite scary -- though Australia does have double dissolution which intends to prevent deadlocks and the Senate changing laws without authority from the House of Representatives.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by gmueckl on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:35AM (#17464074)
This would mean you get into endless discussion about whether a new proposal is covering the same topic or not. Politicians try to game every system if it helps their cause. And then there are the corner cases where the underlying situation changes enough to warrant action even though it fell through one or two years prior.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Avamander on Thursday July 05, 2018 @12:32PM (#17464607)
We are seeing how legislation lags behind AI (self-driving, facial recognition etc.), we seriously don't want to make that even worse.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by kpil on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:37PM (#17466146)
The problem is more that the lawmakers need something to do... EU is producing a torrent of regulations, which is a bit absurd since it's layered on top of a substantial amount of already existing legislation in the member states.

It's not so much about "harmonizing the markets" - it's just full speed ahead, high and low, idealistic, corporatistic, amateurish or razor sharp, but all the time relentless building the superstate.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by cup-of-tea on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:38AM (#17464103)
Yes. People need to understand that are whole teams of people whose full time jobs are to get this kind of thing passed. They don't care what's right or wrong. The Nuremberg defence is perfectly acceptable in business, unfortunately.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by toomuchtodo on Thursday July 05, 2018 @12:53PM (#17464792)
Where do we get the names of these people?
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Joeri on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:36PM (#17465652)
You can search the EU transparency register. For some EU lobbying activities participation in the register is mandatory.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/eu-affairs/2...

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by teamhappy on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:26PM (#17465559)
Lobyplag publishes the documents different companies/govs hand out: https://lobbyplag.eu/docs
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by moqster on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:48PM (#17465248)
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by freeflight on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:01PM (#17465840)
Sonnenborn and his "Die Partei" are a blessing in disguise.

It's also extremely weird how a satire political party regularly makes the most sense by bluntly stating like it is.

Maybe that's the actual secret to proper politics: Saying it like it is, spiced up with some fun.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Kliment on Friday July 06, 2018 @05:51AM (#17470152)
Unfortunately that doesn't match 100% with the official roll call vote results.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by marcosdumay on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:57PM (#17465326)
On the EU their front-line must be registered, doesn't it?

It's a matter of finding out how; you can probably just ask the right people and you will have your answer.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by sizzle on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:14PM (#17464969)
We need more thinking like this.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by walterbell on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:40PM (#17465199)
Plus names of the businesses who support these destructive laws, so their products can be avoided.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Moru on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:48PM (#17465250)
Just look up any movies showing in cinemas, music on the radio and reviews in newspapers. That is the same companies behind the lobbying.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jeffdavis on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:43PM (#17465210)
Peacefully petitioning the government for redress of grievences -- whether you agree with them or not -- should be respected.

It's not clear what you intend to do with these names, but I don't see anything good coming out of it.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by alpha_squared on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:51PM (#17465277)
While I recognize and admire the sentiment, I'm not sure I agree with the practice in law. Legislation should be as transparent as possible since it affects a populace and doesn't exist in a vacuum among involved parties.

As to what intent there is with those names, it could be boycotting products/services from certain organizations -- which is a very valid and legal form of protest.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jeffdavis on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:01PM (#17465367)
Why do you need the names of people to boycott? Just get the names of the companies involved.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jcbrand on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:47PM (#17466690)
Having names are useful to force them to have some skin in the game.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by toomuchtodo on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:22PM (#17465530)
You shouldn’t be able to hide when you’re assisting with the dismantling of democracy.

If you’re fearful of your name being public, associated with this line of work, you should probably reevaluate your actions.

If you support or participate in the further tightening of copyright (when considering how extreme copyright law already is), you are the enemy, and citizens are well within their rights to publicly document your actions.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jeffdavis on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:26PM (#17466060)
When you make bad ideas your enemy, you can promote real change and bring more people peaceably to your side. When you make people your enemy, you are likely to make things worse.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by CamperBob2 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:47PM (#17466215)
So what are your thoughts on the “war on terror,” the “war on drugs,” and the “war on poverty?”

When has attacking an abstract idea ever accomplished anything?

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jeffdavis on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:03PM (#17466344)
How about womens' suffrage?

Who was the enemy in that movement? Did making lists of enemies help? Or was it more battle of ideas where people's minds were changed pver time?

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by CamperBob2 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:25PM (#17466512)
A worthwhile counterexample at the time, but imagine how it would play out today. If the suffrage advocates didn't turn it into a personal fight, the other side would. The opponents would win some battles, then they would lose some bigger ones... and then they'd do what's necessary to take over institutions ranging from market-leading TV news channels to the Supreme Court, and fix the "problem" once and for all. These days, anyone who tries to take the high road in politics finds that it ends at the top of a cliff.

Unfortunately I have a feeling we're about to see this scenario unfold with respect to gay marriage and LGBTQ issues in general. Theocrats do not like to lose, any more than copyright maximalists do.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by toomuchtodo on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:35PM (#17466129)
This has not been my experience engaging in the political process in the US, both on individual campaigns and when working on specific issues (drug decriminalization and incarceration and gerrymandering, specifically).

Whether people are married to their ideas through money or ideology, you are left with little recourse. History is written by the victor, not the noble.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jeffdavis on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:54PM (#17466272)
Think beyond the single issue and realize that making enemies of people has cascading effects that ultimately polarize the nation and close you off to any possibility of modifying your opinions or learning new things.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by michaelmrose on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:25PM (#17468262)
At least with my nation, the US, while neither side is really for the people one side is so vastly against the interests of the majority in general and the interests of me and mine in particular that I expect there is no reasonable middle ground.

When one group wants people like yourself to lose medical care and die where is the middle position?

Ultimately I expect them to eventually react violently to losing power and have to be put down by force in order to preserve some notion of democracy.

On perhaps your side of the pond it seems that one side wants to strangle the medium for culture and civilization in order to make a few bucks in hopes that a fraction will stick to their hands. These people are surely personally your enemy whether you recognize it or not.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by a1369209993 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:54PM (#17465303)
They aren't peacefully petitioning; the're bribing lawmakers. Also, that's a right that people have, not corporations.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jeffdavis on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:00PM (#17465356)
Then get a list of the names of the corporations not the people. Maybe that can lead to a boycott, which is fine.

It's kind of scary to start assembling lists of peoples' names that are your opponents.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by baybal2 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:19PM (#17465504)
>assembling lists of peoples' names that are your opponents

If you want to defeat your opponents, a great thing to do. Keep track of them. The best service you can give to an enemy, is to forget him.

>My opponents are bad laws and bad ideas. Let's make lists of those.

Don't you think that bad ideas are possessed by bad people?

In my view of the world, the root of all good and bad are the people. People's deeds and ideas don't live separate lives from physical human beings having/doing them.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jeffdavis on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:36PM (#17466142)
My opponents are bad laws and bad ideas. Let's make lists of those.

Individual people may have both good ideas and bad ideas, and those may change over time.

Lists of opponents' names are a really bad solution because they ignore the distinction between people and ideas.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ryandrake on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:53PM (#17466265)
Ideas can’t be shamed or ostracized. Ideas don’t respond to incentives. Ideas can’t engage in debate. Trying to fight ideas is futile without also opposing the people with boots on the ground implementing the ideas.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ryandrake on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:48PM (#17466227)
Corporations don’t do things. People within corporations do things. You’re not going to get anywhere with a protest website that says: “BigMediaCorp is trying to take away your rights!” But, if it says “Mark Smith, VP Government Affairs at BigMediaCorp, who lives at 155 Spruce St., Los Angeles, leads the team that lobbies to take away your rights!” ...you’ve got a real person to oppose who does real things.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by squarefoot on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:37PM (#17466609)
I'd publish the name and maybe a small photo of the person so that he/she can get opinions by people he/she happens to see during the day, but adding any personal address would be like inviting criminals to stalk the person. No matter how much we hate those corrupt lowlives, we must fight them from within the law fence. Keep in mind that those people control most of the information sources, and those they don't control are mostly aligned on their side anyway, so it is safe to assume that everything will be used against us. A news announcement such as: "Activist burns politician's house. All safe including their loved puppy" (cue photos showing the puppy big sweet eyes) won't bring a single person to sympathize with the cause, but rather make even more enemies. This is a war where every move has to be planned with extreme care; hic sunt leones.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by matheusmoreira on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:52AM (#17469735)
Politicians don't really deserve any privacy. These people should be under public scrutiny at all times. This isn't some private company that you can choose not to do business with if you don't like it. They have the power to pass laws that will apply to everyone. People should keep track of them and denounce them publicly and loudly when they do things people don't like.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by kabulykos on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:00PM (#17465836)
What's scary about it? The risk individual (natural) persons might be rude to each other based on political opinions?

Dude — already happening.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Semiapies on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:26PM (#17467739)
Yes, like that guy was "rude" to several people on the staff of the Capital Gazette in Annapolis on June 28.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by x0x0 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:53PM (#17465297)
It's ludicrous to believe that publishing the names of people and companies requesting a change in law is somehow nefarious. People should be happy to have their names associated with laws they support, and if they aren't, that definitely speaks to the desirability of the law for the rest of us.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by scrollaway on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:31PM (#17465609)
I fully agree any protest should be peaceful, but transparency is important.

Let's imagine a world where as you suggest, corporation names are revealed but not individuals. Well, where does that leave us? Maybe I'll just go as myself instead of my company. I won't represent my company, I just happen to be its CEO, its chief lobbyist, or whatever.

So no, we'd need full transparency. This kind of thing is common among various branches of democratic governments. Presidents' schedules are usually mostly public, fundings of various sorts are public, etc.

Opaqueness leads to darkness.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by baybal2 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:17PM (#17465489)
>It's not clear what you intend to do with these names, but I don't see anything good coming out of it.

Just demonstrating that you know a lot of even remotely private information about somebody is a very effective intimidation method.

[dead]
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by mpweiher on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:06PM (#17466361)
Hmm..next elections for the European Parliament are in May 2019.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by wildebaard on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:48PM (#17466698)
While I appreciate the sentiment, justicedemocrats has exactly nothing to do with (this) European law proposal.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by hueving on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:24PM (#17466499)
>Visit justicedemocrats.com for details on how to vote this November.

Keep this US-biased political crap out of articles in general, but even more so on articles about European policy.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by some_account on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:37AM (#17463127)
I doubt it's about profit. The internet is the only mass medium not being completely controlled by corporations. It's the only medium where truth can still be found about the real reasons why things occur.

Link tax and other new laws will make sure that networks that spread truths goes underground.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by nerdponx on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:42AM (#17463174)
Sounds like that's about profit to me.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pabloski on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:10AM (#17463852)
Profits and censorship. The oligarchs want money and want to shut the mouths of those who denounce their crimes. And yes, it isn't only Russia who has a problem with oligarchs.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by simias on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:38AM (#17464097)
Sounds like tinfoil hattery to me. Simple greed and technological illiteracy seem much more straightforward and don't involve a conspiracy about "the real reasons why things occur" [creepy music in the background]. It's especially ridiculous since of late the internet seems to have been much more efficient at shoveling garbage to gullible people than enlightening the proletariat.

I've even seen some proponents of the bill lament that the lobbying by the "GAFA" (google, apple, facebook and amazon) won, so I'm sure some of them actually believe that they're fighting the good fight against the multinational behemoths who are trying to pillage European resources. It's relatively easy to justify the bill if you take it purely at face value without thinking about the consequences: the big players like Google make a ton of money by linking to other people's work without redistributing any of the profits to the creators, let's fix that. Of course, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and clueless politicians.

That or it's the Illuminati, who knows.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by andai on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:56AM (#17464251)
Clueless politicians are not magically immune from the illuminati's influence, rather they are prime targets.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by everyone on Thursday July 05, 2018 @12:10PM (#17464353)
Nonsense. Its mainly cat pictures and porn. If you're interested in learning how things work, read a lot of books. (non-fiction obviously)

The truth about the fuckedupedness of our civilization is all readily available for you to read. Just no-one cares.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by AstralStorm on Thursday July 05, 2018 @12:39PM (#17464670)
Did you mean ebooks and blogs by books? IEEE and other research papers in electronic form?

I haven't found a book even close to state of the art... For a reasonable price.

Springer research collections come close but they're very expensive. Journals are expensive and worse...

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by turc1656 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:45PM (#17467499)
Precisely! 66% of Millennials don't know what Auschwitz is and 40% don't know that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust based on a recent study. This is astounding.

Even more insane is that the overwhelming majority of society (not just Millennials) thinks that the Holocaust was the most deadly mass murder in the 20th century.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by M2Ys4U on Friday July 06, 2018 @07:08AM (#17470444)
That is absurdly high. Do you have a link to that study?
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by turc1656 on Friday July 06, 2018 @09:37AM (#17471258)
Sure: http://cc-69bd.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Holocaus...

The "40% don't know that 6 million Jews died" is technically accurate (page 2) but slightly misleading. They thought less than 2 million people died, which is still pretty crazy. The phrasing I provided was how I saw it in the new article(s) that pop up. And that's for the people who actually have heard of it. Apparently 22% have never heard of the Holocaust at all or aren't sure they have ever heard of it (also page 2). However, the 66% stat is straight off of page 4 and not misleading in the slightest.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by mlthoughts2018 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:54PM (#17467554)
The Holocaust is the largest genocide of the 20th century. Only the Chinese Great Leap Forward could be comparable in overall deaths, many of which resulted from famine and policy in a way that makes it very hard to compare with genocidal murder. Overall, I’d say it’s quite reasonable if most people register the Holocaust as the largest event of “mass murder.”

< https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_t... >

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by turc1656 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:09PM (#17467653)
Yes, but my phrasing was specifically mass murder. In terms of genocide, I agree. But that list explicitly excludes non-genocide mass murders. In terms of the Chinese Great Leap Forward, if you exclude the policy/famine based deaths that still leaves you with at least 13 million murders, and that's just the property owners that were slaughtered for their land by the impoverished peasants. That doesn't even include anyone else.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by krapp on Thursday July 05, 2018 @12:03PM (#17464304)
>It's the only medium where truth can still be found about the real reasons why things occur.

So.. flat earth, anti-vax, 9/11 truther, NWO, aliens or... what? What's your poison?

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by TuringTest on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:31PM (#17466094)
You're looking at all the wrong places