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Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by akuji1993 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:28AM (#17462111)
The good thing also is, that the Worldcup will be over when the law is discussed again. You can spot pretty easily how laws like this are always pushed in a time where most people are occupied with something else, usually around summer. It's ridiculous how often that happens. Let's hope we don't have a big distraction coming up in September.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by petepete on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:50AM (#17462216)
It's funny you should mention The World Cup, FIFA are hugely annoying when it comes to copyright.

It's only just making the normal news[0], but their pettiness has plagued the sharing of small clips and highlights.

Do they really want me to wait for an incident to be televised before I can discuss it online? Should I have to track down specific moments in a game using my own recording in order to be able to discuss it? FIFA, the World's Most Corrupt Organisation™, should realise that fans enjoying and discussing their events adds a lot of value and will drive more viewers.

[0] https://inews.co.uk/video/fifa-delete-twitter-video-of-boy-c...

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by johannes1234321 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:56AM (#17464250)
> Do they really want me to wait for an incident to be televised before I can discuss it online?

Yes. They sold the exclusive right for lot's of money. In some countries even with a Multi-Laser approach where one station is allowed to transmit live and another station is the first one being allowed to use snippets for summaries.

> Should I have to track down specific moments in a game using my own recording in order to be able to discuss it?

No. You are not supposed to track it. You are supposed to see the programs so they get high ratings and refinance their license.

That's how the deal works and it's a constant battle, whether this is a private entertainment event or something of newsworthy character ... intermixed with international copyright law.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by petepete on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:48PM (#17466696)
> No. You are not supposed to track it. You are supposed to see the programs so they get high ratings and refinance their license.

That's the thing though, I do watch the games live. I also like to follow and discuss key events on Reddit match threads (which are fantastic, informative, funny and insightful).

They wouldn't be possible without easily accessible clips; there are no official alternatives and with the rights situation the way there are, it's unlikely to happen legally (even with a fee) any time soon.

FIFA (and UEFA, and the FA) are simply unable to compete without rethinking the way their licencing works. They are simply being left behind.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by johannes1234321 on Friday July 06, 2018 @07:08AM (#17470446)
> They wouldn't be possible without easily accessible clips; there are no official alternatives and with the rights situation the way there are, it's unlikely to happen legally (even with a fee) any time soon.

This is not true for Germany and maybe other national license holders. In Germany the public broadcasters ARD and ZDF have the whole matches and summaries online for free (i.e. https://www.sportschau.de/fifa-wm-2018/video/index.html ) But that's geo-blocked from other countries as they only have a national license.

At least over here streaming is a large part of this (best way to reach people in offices for matches in the afternoon) and they pay a lot of money for that to FIFA, where FIFA then ensures the exclusivity.

It ain't nice and too much money involved to really free that up.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Already__Taken on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:07AM (#17462310)
FIA are pretty in the dark ages with F1 too. FE is slightly different and seems to be where they're experimenting. GTE is getting better too.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by doikor on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:30AM (#17462414)
FIA doesn’t hold the commercial rights to F1 so everything related to clips etc is not handled by them. This has been getting better in F1 too after Liberty Media bought the commercial rights from Bernie. Formula One Group being be entity that holds the rights and was sold to Liberty Media for 4.4 billion in 2016.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by wattengard on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:15AM (#17462342)
And don't even mention the Olympics! No ... seriously ... don't mention them ... You'll get sued.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by michaelscott on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:23AM (#17462652)
F1 hasn't been too bad; you can access live recordings of the Grand Prix, race highlights and sometimes even links through to third party retrospectives through their Youtube channel.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by vesinisa on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:01AM (#17462889)
Yeah sure - I bet if you live in a region where no company has bought exclusive television rights to F1. In my country, a pay channel owns exclusive rights to all F1 broadcasting, so all official F1 content on YouTube etc. is simply blocked here (shows the infamous "This content is not available in your country" error.)

They have gone to great lengths to ensure the only way I can view live F1 GPs legally is to pay 25€/mon subscription to the cable company. If I had a choice, I would actually be happy to subscribe to UK's Sky Sports F1 channel, who for 20€/mon have much more extensive coverage of the whole GP weekend, with world-class commentators in studio and on track-side, including retired F1 drivers' title holders. The cable company broadcasting in my country has lower quality and less content, so I don't feel like paying them each month more than I pay to my ISP.

But of course, due to the very same geo-blocking rules, Sky Sports F1 is unable to sell their subscription to my country, because they only have rights for UK broadcasting. Same thing applies to Netflix etc., where some content may be available in one EU country but not in another.

This is actually a violation of the EU's core single market principle (customers should be able to freely procure services from providers in any EU country, not just providers in their home country). And a few years ago, the EU Parliament was actually bullish about abolishing the whole practice of digital content geo-blocking within EU.[1] They eventually did pass new digital market regulations, but of course the content industry was able to water it down so that it doesn't actually apply to them at all![2]

[1]: https://torrentfreak.com/europe-will-abolish-geo-blocking-an...

[2]: https://juliareda.eu/2018/02/eu-did-not-end-geoblocking/

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by sundvor on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:35AM (#17462718)
It was bad enough for me to lose interest in the sport.

That, and the crap Vettel pulled to get past Webber in Malaysia in ... 2013? How time flies..!

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by djrogers on Friday July 06, 2018 @12:45AM (#17468905)
This is one (of many) areas where the NBA has done it right. Social media, clip sharing, fan produced highlight reels on YouTube - all good.

No surprise that the NBA is huge and fast growing in younger demographics!

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by dingaling on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:02AM (#17462569)
If FIFA are so uptight about copyright, why continue to support them by consuming and discussing their 'product'?

Go out and create your own content. Until that becomes predominant they have no reason to care. And frankly neither do I; it has never been easier to make videos, take photos, make podcasts and broadcast them.

This whole copyright-law furore has really highlighted the entitled attitude of most Internet users nowadays.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by petepete on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:22AM (#17463028)
> If FIFA are so uptight about copyright, why continue to support them by consuming and discussing their 'product'?

Make my own international football sporting competition? Or buy tickets and stream on Periscope, a practice that is heavily frowned upon and The Premier League are actively looking to ban.

Anyway, the reason I hold my viewpoint is that FIFA are meant to be a non-profit organisation. They are meant to exist for the good of the game; to most people that means the more people watching, playing, engaging with and talking about it, the better.

It's clear that over the last thirty or forty years FIFA officials became more interested about lining their pockets. That's how Russia and Qatar managed to buy World Cups; it's how decision makers at every level received bungs and suitcases full of cash; it's how FIFA's rights management division went on the warpath; it's even responsible for the swathes of empty 'VIP' seats you see in prime positions at high profile games (even more after half time while prawn sandwiches are on sale in the exclusive bar).

It's disgusting behaviour, they need to get back to their original ethos and allow the game to flourish.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Pica_soO on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:07PM (#17465411)
Every Organization needs a meat-grinder- a mechanism that swallows contributing individuals after a certain time and removes them from the organization.

In a democracy, that usually is a far away parliament, that removes the elected individual out of touch with the worries of those elected, so he/ she is not reelected.

Fifa should give every fan a vote.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by bloak on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:41AM (#17462169)
Yes, and I still remember how they tried to adopt software patents, without a vote, at a fishery meeting on 24 Jan 2005. So be on the lookout for any similar fishy business.

Though in that particular case the "fishiness" led to rather a lot of journalists reporting on the general hilarity of the situation, which probably helped it fail. The bad guys will have learnt from that and will probably avoid any obvious fish-connections in future.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by type0 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:25AM (#17462390)
> Though in that particular case the "fishiness" led to rather a lot of journalists reporting on the general hilarity of the situation ...

Hilarious, but this is how they should have done it properly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGBZnfB46es

# How much is the fish!? The bigger fish keeps eating all the smaller ones. It's not like anyone cares. Nah, let's just go watch some football, shall we.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Angostura on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:22AM (#17462377)
There are very few weeks in the year when something "Big" isn't happening somewhere in Europe, so this is an easy accusation to level. I doubt its coordinated.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pbhjpbhj on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:26AM (#17462669)
I went to the BBC site thinking Erdogan's re-election would be on the homepage (a day or two after the election IIRC), nope, nearly all World Cup. So, it would certainly be on the News section, er nope; not in the European news subsection either. Searched and found one video which was propaganda level of support for Erdogan.

Might've been just me.

I don't quite see how the World Cup is more than a small news story. Why isn't it one item in News and then all the detailed stuff in Sport section.

(Yes, I'm watching it, yes I enjoy it, yes I love football; no I don't think the BBC should devote half the resources they are to it.)

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by anticensor on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:39AM (#17462739)
Erdoğan approved an act forbidding presidential candidates being financed by political parties but not president itself financed by means of state, during electoral propaganda. It is not unexpected that Erdoğan has got himself re-elected with unequal opportunity of propaganda, favoring himself.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Angostura on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:42AM (#17463171)
There were 5 news stories published on July 25th about the results. This story was (for a while) top story on the morning the resuklts came in https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44596072
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by isostatic on Friday July 06, 2018 @08:42AM (#17470919)
July 25th?

On June 25th the Ten O'Clock news running order was Heathrow, Grenfell, Migrants, Student Suicide, Swansea Lagoon, NHS, Turkey (1m20), Prince William doing something, then finally the World Cup which was 3 minutes at the end of the program (England had played the previous day)

On June 26th I don't think there was any world cup.

The Ten's running order (tweeted daily by https://twitter.com/paulroyall) is an indication of what the BBC thinks was important that day (where Today's running order is what the BBC thinks will be important that day)

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by isostatic on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:39AM (#17470323)
18 Million people watched the last England game on BBC One, 3 million watched live on iplayer.

That's the most number of viewers for anything since the 2012 olympics. 1 in 3 people in the UK was glued to their screen watching, and that was the first round. Tomorrows quarter final I'm sure will be even higher.

This world cup is major news for the UK - even for those like me that don't watch football. My understanding is that the BBC coverage is better than ITVs too.

(BTW, the BBC's facilities in Moscow are dwarfed by Fox Sports, and the U.S. isn't even in the competition!)

This is the bbc news page I see. World Cup is below the fold: http://imgur.com/c2mkpAkl.png

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by OwlsParliament on Thursday July 05, 2018 @10:40AM (#17463592)
An ongoing, popular sporting event is always going to be higher priority than an election that is two days old and only minorly relevant to a UK audience (which the BBC serves).
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by s3m4j on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:41AM (#17462457)
That was my thought as well, there's always something "big" going on. IMO, it would be difficult, near impossible, to coordinate votes with events, going through the bureaucracy involved etc.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by cesarb on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:52AM (#17462227)
For several EU countries including Germany, the World Cup was already over as of this vote. Moreover, this vote happened precisely during a two-day "pause" before the quarterfinals in which there are no games. If the intention was to push this law while people were distracted with the games, whoever did that had rotten timing.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pluma on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:29AM (#17462411)
The point isn't that the vote itself was held in the middle of the World Cup, the point is that the time during which the public would have had informed itself about the issue and news coverage might have featured it overlapped with the time during which headlines are typically dominated by the World Cup.

This isn't unusual and it doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to see a pattern. In fact, if you don't want too much public scrutiny, this is exactly what you would want to do. Actually Germany provides a good example for where this might work because historically Germany always made it past the group stage and Germans in general tend to follow their World Cup coverage fairly closely -- and it would have worked this time, too, hadn't it been for those meddling South Koreans.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by lawlessone on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:30AM (#17462123)
Brexit was pushed through while loads of people from the UK that could have voted were in France at matches for the Euros.

why the downvotes?

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by barking on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:33AM (#17462137)
Maybe david Cameron reckoned England football supporters would more likely to be pro-Brexit?
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Double_a_92 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:33AM (#17462134)
That doesn't make sense though... Because the plan was NOT to brexit.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pbhjpbhj on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:31AM (#17462697)
Whoever ensured the referendum was in the Tory election manifesto certainly was planning on Brexit happening.

You don't pay millions in to Tory funds, employ MPs and give pensions to ex-MPs and not get your way.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by monkeynotes on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:08AM (#17462589)
Whose plan? Cameron's plan for sure, but it's not all that far fetched to believe he was ill advised and manipulated by his party (a lot of Eurosceptics in the Tory party). Ever watched Yes Minister? I know it's satire, but it's more than believable.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jcranmer on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:05AM (#17462915)
The leading faces of the Brexit movement--people like Boris Johnston or Nigel Farage--were completely caught off-guard by the victory. Cameron's decision to resign immediately after the referendum loss also meant that the Brexit negotiations would be completely owned by the Brexiteers, as they ran out of people who could be blamed if/when things go south.

What was desired by these leading anti-EU folks was not a victory, but a very close loss. They get to keep blaming the EU for every problem (useful, when the biggest gripe--immigration--was entirely under the control of the UK, not the EU). They get to demonstrate that they have too much support to be ignored, but they don't have the responsibility of actually enacting the agenda.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ptero on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:25AM (#17462663)
> why the downvotes?

I did not downvote you, but I think you are getting beaten because you brought up a potential hot topic (brexit) in a way that is unrelated to the discussion topic (copyright). The argument that parties could have been using similar tactics is IMO irrelevant even if true (and that is not clear to me either).

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by tzahola on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:36AM (#17462146)
Brexit wasn't "pushed through". Everyone was pretty confident that they'll stay in the EU.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by beobab on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:48AM (#17462203)
As I recall, there was a pretty even split amongst the population. Approximately half my friends wanted to stay, and half wanted to leave.

Which pretty much mirrored the actual result. It was very close.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by majewsky on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:57AM (#17462536)
When GP says "Everyone was confident", they probably mean that everyone in the government was confident.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by ersii on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:47AM (#17462487)
That might very well be the case, but it was not quite portraited that way in the media for what I saw.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pjmlp on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:53AM (#17462233)
While many voting to move away never got the point that EU institutions currently located in UK, require to be in a EU country, so they are now moving away and their employees get to choose to search for job somewhere else or go along.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by barking on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:40AM (#17462163)
And the way things are going it's looking like Britain will be brexiting in name only.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pjc50 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:11AM (#17462325)
That's the least worst option, but I'm still hoping that someone will join the dots and realise that giving up our vote and participation is a pointless idea and that we should just cancel it.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by jonathanstrange on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:01AM (#17462560)
Well, from the point of view of UK's economy that would be the best solution but for the EU that could be bad in the long run. One good thing about the Brexit would have been that UK politicians could no longer blame the EU for everything. As it looks now, they will continue to find new, creative ways to make the EU the scapegoat for their mistakes.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by Arnt on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:31AM (#17462420)
You think so? AFAICT there isn't even such a proposal being negotiated, and it had better be ready for signing this year. BINO looks like it might fail through simple lack of time.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by barking on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:45AM (#17462769)
It will all be decided only at the last moment as is the custom for this sort of thing! (I hope)
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pjc50 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:12AM (#17462961)
.. but in the meantime businesses have to have their contingency plans in place, at considerable trouble and expense, which may include pre-emptively moving operations to the EU.

(But either all the current disorganisation is keyfabe or this lot couldn't plan their way out of a paper bag, which is going to result in us taking whatever we can get)

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by rusk on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:13AM (#17462334)
We can only hope. The alternatives are too dismal to contemplate.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by joosteto on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:09AM (#17462596)
And if you do contemplate them, you'll be accused of participating in project fear.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by rusk on Thursday July 05, 2018 @12:50PM (#17464775)
Project fear didn't go far enough.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by rezeroed on Thursday July 05, 2018 @06:35AM (#17462144)
With such laws as this, and giant cookie consent banners, I'm surprised Brexit wasn't/isn't more popular.

Edit: apparently I'm not surprised. Or not allowed to be.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pjc50 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:13AM (#17462338)
The cookie consent banners were never really a requirement, more a band-aid for the advertising industry's continued surveillance.

As we've seen with GDPR, not being in the EU wouldn't actually help much with this because almost all websites would still want to sell into (or even be run from) the EU.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by fauigerzigerk on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:25AM (#17462392)
You shouldn't be surprised. It's not like the UK is taking a substantially different position on copyrights, and many UK consumers do welcome the protections afforded by GDPR.

The Labour MEP on the legal affairs committee voted in favor of the copyright directive. The conservative member abstained.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by digi_owl on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:53AM (#17462516)
Best i can tell, copyright is a topic that allows up and comping politicians to virtue signal and/or for the economic powers that be to test the allegiance of rising political stars.

It is also a dry subject that most people don't care about until they get a sour letter from some lawyer because Timmy discovered bittorrent.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by fauigerzigerk on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:08AM (#17462591)
It is a dry subject, but make no mistake, this is not just a pet subject of individual MPs/MEPs.

The "value gap" argument used to justify the EU copyright directive is right there in the 2017 Labour manifesto: https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-mani...

The conservatives have used similar but more general language as well.

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by pbhjpbhj on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:35AM (#17462723)
Online privacy regulation restraining the non-consensual tracking of private individuals; impingement of widescale manipulation of the public via social media ... how awful for us all in Europe, eh?

How dare Europe even try and protect the rights of private individuals. /s

Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by chki on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:13AM (#17462335)
I didn't downvote you. But maybe other people have because of the huge difference between leaving a union of states and peoples (which has a lot of impact, e.g. freedom of movement and trade) and clicking on a banner which is slightly annoying at most.
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by marcus_holmes on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:22AM (#17462379)
I think HN is generally anti-Brexit, so the downvotes are likely to be expressing that opinion rather than any specific complaint about the post
Re:EU copyright law proposal rejected by digi_owl on Thursday July 05, 2018 @08:02AM (#17462565)
> I think HN is generally anti-Brexit

As best i can tell, you can draw clear EU sentiments based on age and education. Younger and better educated are largely pro-EU as they are in a position to seek employment within the euro-sphere virtually at will (and may had friends all over thanks to various EU education programs).

Others have watched local industry either moving their activities abroad, or simply running a skeleton crew between contracts. And when a contract hits, most of the people working there may not even speak a language the locals understand.

Yes that may sound like racism, and the extremists can score some cheap points on it, but for the most part the issue is one of livelihood.

Where as previous generations could count on their industrial or service job to carry them through setting up a home and starting a family, now they can't. And they see the EU as the reason why by eroding their access to jobs.