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Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by coreyp_1 on Friday April 06, 2018 @02:43PM (#16776110)
YouTube University. Seriously: watch 30, 50, or a 100 videos. You will develop an intuition for what is happening. THEN read books (some good ones already suggested in other comments) and you will learn the concrete theory.

I want to emphasize the importance of developing the intuition behind the theory. It's vital, and the lack of intuition is why so many people find a complex, theoretical topic difficult. If they had spent time developing their intuition, then they would not struggle so much to understand and remember the theory.

Last, you have to build stuff (this also helps with the intuition). Decide that you are going to spend $300, and start buying parts. Don't go to Radio Shack, because you will (in my experience) pay an order of magnitude more for the same part. Shop on Aliexpress (or sometimes Amazon or Ebay). Who cares if you have to wait 6 weeks for the part to come in... do it today and it will be here about the time that you are ready for it. Never buy just one of anything. You can usually buy 10 or 20 for the same price that you can buy 2 or 3.

Most importantly: DO SOMETHING! Anything. Watch videos. Buy parts. Put things together, and then try to figure out why it's not working! Whatever you do, just don't stop. You will learn if you keep at it. At this stage for you, though, the most important thing is that you actually start.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by coreyp_1 on Friday April 06, 2018 @02:53PM (#16776209)
Good video series (in no particular order):

Electricity videos. Audio can be annoying, but the visualizations (although corny at times) are outstanding for developing intuition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiHVe8U5PhU&list=PLkyBCj4JhH...

GreatScott! - building projects

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6mIxFTvXkWQVEHPsEdflzQ

bigclivedotcom - does A LOT of teardowns, and you learn A LOT by seeing what designers have done wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtM5z2gkrGRuWd0JQMx76qA

EEVblog - Dave talks (sometimes a bit long-winded, but I like him anyway) about various electronics topics. His explanations are outstanding.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2DjFE7Xf11URZqWBigcVOQ

Afrotechmods - Both good for explanations as well as building stuff

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCosnWgi3eorc1klEQ8pIgJQ

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by godelski on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:21PM (#16777566)
^ +

Ben Eater - Builds his own 8 bit computer and walks you through all the steps

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS0N5baNlQWJCUrhCEo8WlA

Ben Krasnow's Applied Science - Teaches a lot more than electronics, but will also help you get some ideas (don't underestimate watching people do cool stuff to inspire you)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCivA7_KLKWo43tFcCkFvydw

Jeri Ellsworth - Lots of random electronics stuff

https://www.youtube.com/user/jeriellsworth

AND DO NOT FORGET TO BUY THE BIBLE

https://smile.amazon.com/Art-Electronics-Paul-Horowitz/dp/05...

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by smrq on Monday April 09, 2018 @04:13AM (#16791246)
Thanks to this comment, I've now spent this past weekend binging the entire Ben Eater 8-bit computer series this far. Very entertaining, and I certainly learned a few things about computer architecture. I'm very tempted to do the project myself.

There is a very, very base level of electronics understanding for a couple things that are below the scope of what he covers. You're expected to understand what a pull-up resistor is, for example, and he briefly touches on RC circuits but I don't think his explanation would be sufficient for grokking the concept from scratch. Overall though, he is an excellent teacher and I think he makes concepts quite clear.

I personally ran a few parts at 2x speed, and skipped the Turing machine discussion entirely, but I'm sure the info is quite necessary to some people, so I'm glad he included it all.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by lrdd on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:36PM (#16778106)
+1 for Ben Eater - super solid explanations, really enlightening even right at an early level.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by malthuswaswrong on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:44PM (#16776710)
Also AvE.

Not sure you learn a lot, but he's a knowledgeable guy having fun ripping shit apart in his garage with an adorable Canadian accent.

https://www.youtube.com/user/arduinoversusevil

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by ninjakeyboard on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:07PM (#16777445)
We have accents up here??? Why did my mother never tell me this?!? I thought you guys had accents!
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by agumonkey on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:44PM (#16777740)
I love his tone and personality, he's also a neverending stream of stupid puns, at that level, it's gold.

I like his channel because it involves scales that don't play in. Like testing very high torque motors (over bolts bigger than my thumbs).

vice: check

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by the_cat_kittles on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:28PM (#16777087)
AvE is so great! completely changed how i see tools! plus his gift of gab is amazing
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Magnets on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:08PM (#16777912)
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by topspin on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:41PM (#16777208)
Mr. Carlson's Lab is one of my favorites. Long form videos of custom devices, repairs and restorations of old, simple instruments are really interesting. On Patreon he details his designs and provides complete schematics and parts lists.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrCarlsonsLab/videos

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by garganzol on Saturday April 07, 2018 @12:41AM (#16779394)
Mr. Carlson is a brilliant and thorough guy. Despite my lifelong experience with electronics, I always find something new to learn from him.

I would also recommend 8-Bit Guy who dives into electronics in some videos.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by amelius on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:33PM (#16777139)
If you want to learn how to design circuits in a structured, analytical way (i.e., without heuristics and black magic), I can recommend this course: [1]. Note that this is really a more advanced course.

[1] https://ocw.tudelft.nl/course-lectures/sed-l1-intro/?course_...

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Baeocystin on Friday April 06, 2018 @07:18PM (#16778347)
There is a fantastic YouTube speed control extension for chrome that also does pitch correction. Perfect for EEVblog. Not joking.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/youtube-playback-s...

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Bitnotri on Saturday April 07, 2018 @11:48AM (#16781238)
Personally I've been using Video Speed Controller, which seems more popular. One of the things that revolutionizes your viewing experience - learn the default keybindings (s -slower, d - faster, g - toggle fast (1.8x speed)) and never be bored again.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/video-speed-contro...

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Baeocystin on Saturday April 07, 2018 @07:55PM (#16783751)
Always nice to know of other options. (The keyboard shortcuts for the extension I linked are + and -, with * being reset to default speed.)

Does the extension you linked do pitch correction as well? I wish I could find one that does for Firefox, too, if you happen to know of one. The only playback speed control extension I've found for FF doesn't.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by qqqwww on Monday April 09, 2018 @12:50AM (#16790471)
I think these extensions set the standard playbackRate property on the HTML5 video element: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/HTMLMediaEl...

Try setting the property manually using the JavaScript console and see if you get pitch correction. If not, maybe make sure you're on the latest version of Firefox?

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Baeocystin on Monday April 09, 2018 @07:02AM (#16791942)
I'll give that a shot. Thanks.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by posterboy on Saturday April 07, 2018 @06:32PM (#16783404)
> EEV Blog

low signal to noise ratio. The video log has 400 hour long parts in the series now, it's hard to pull valuable information quickly. It's not structured at all. "all over the shop", to use Dave's words.

> Afrotechmods

Nice introductions, but not very deep. "It's not the Volts that kill you, it's the Amps".

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by vvanders on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:05PM (#16776897)
+1 for EEVBlog, he's an ex-EE who brings a ton of experience to a bunch of interesting areas.

As someone who's self-taught I found that the Art of Electronics was fantastic once I had enough basics. It may require a couple reads as it's quite dense but everything in there is solid gold.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by agumonkey on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:04PM (#16777877)
I don't like most of his device review videos, too whiney. That said, his talk on op amps was very very good.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by timpattinson on Saturday April 07, 2018 @03:03AM (#16779728)
The Signal Path - https://www.youtube.com/user/TheSignalPathBlog A mix of relatively advanced and relatively simple videos, no rambling all content with great demos. If you have a test gear fetish this is your channel.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Afrotechmods on Friday April 06, 2018 @10:33PM (#16779091)
tips fedora
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by mbesto on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:55PM (#16776815)
Thank you so much for this - SUPER helpful!
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by fhood on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:34PM (#16776623)
Parts are KEY!!!

Crucial Items.

- A real soldering station.

- Solder

- ALL THE RESISTORS

- ALL THE WIRES (Solid core is really handy for mocking with breadboards

- A good multimeter

- A good power supply

- Breadboards

- Shrink tube

I think that covers the main things. Also nice to have are

- Heat gun

- fume hood (this is overkill for a hobbyist probably)

- Oscilloscope (I hear they are getting nearly affordable)

- Crimps (molex)

- A real crimping tool (Not pliers. One of the ratcheting ones.)

- All the other stuff I forgot about.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Ologn on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:09PM (#16777465)
For those low on cash, or who want to dive in a little before seeing what soldering station, multimeter, power supply, oscilloscope etc. they want...

First buy a breadboard (or more than one). Buy the resistors and wires you need in the near future. You'll need a crimper pretty soon to cut the wires.

A good power supply is nice, but you can make due with a battery holder and battery at first, say, a 9 volt.

Look at some simple projects you can build, and get the capacitors, LEDs, inductors etc. necessary to build them.

When you want to start soldering things together, get a soldering station, solder and stripboards. Also get solder flux . Soldering is much less of a pain when you have flux, depending on what you are doing.

As the comment section here attests - a soldering gun is hot. Solder is hot. You have to be careful.

Digikey.com and Mouser.com have many, many electronic parts. Adafruit.com has a lot of cool projects and guides. In fact, I would recommend you watch some Adafruit videos, read some of their guides etc.

After you learn some of the basics, you can take a step up and get an Arduino and muck with that.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by kevhito on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:51PM (#16777782)
Digikey can be intimidating. The interface is kind of clunky, and for a beginner (like me!) it's overkill when you just want a couple of 10uF capacitors but get 60,000 hits for every variation of exotic capacitor ever made, and pricing for units of 1000s.

I find jameco.com very friendly for a beginner. Prices are about the same as elsewhere, shipping is fine, selection is fine for a beginner, and usually it's usually pretty easy to narrow the search results to just a few parts that have fairly clear differences. They have a pretty nice email newsletter too, essentially the only newsletter I allow through my spam filters, and the only one I've ever clicked on non-accidentally. The regularly feature hobby projects on their front page, from premade kits to more advanced stuff.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by spookthesunset on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:52PM (#16776785)
I can't emphasize the following enough:

> A real soldering station > Solder

Get a good, name brand soldering station. Yes it will cost a few hundred dollars, but it will make a huge difference in your work. The cheap-o $15 soldering irons all produce horrible results and will shatter your confidence...

Get good, very thin solder. It will be expensive ($40) but will last forever and if paired with a legit soldering iron, will make a huge impact in your abilities.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by silasb on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:21PM (#16777025)
I've looked around for a good soldering station and the best thing that I could find for the price/performance is the TS100. All the other budget (sub $100) didn't have a direct heating element. In total, I probably spent about $100 to get a stand and other things needed for soldering.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by jeff_vader on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:40PM (#16777691)
I'd second the TS100. It's ~$40 (given you can find a power supply for free, laptop bricks work fine. I'm using mini photo printer power supply which I found on the street + $1 plug + $3 worth of heat resistant silicone cable).

Warms up in seconds, open source and customizable firmware, takes very little space (kind of important to me since I don't have a dedicated shed/garage for the hobby). What's not to love about it for a beginner?

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by stigi on Saturday April 07, 2018 @02:49PM (#16782132)
Honest question: Why does a soldering iron need a firmware? Isn't it just enough to set a temperature? What other features are there?
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by gh02t on Saturday April 07, 2018 @08:56PM (#16783937)
Apart from reading the buttons that control the device and writing the display, a digital iron needs firmware to control the feedback loop that maintains the temperature. Digital irons generally have PID based temperature regulation, unlike the crappy analog ones that have open loop systems (some analog irons have temperature regulation, e.g. Weller's old magnetic tips, but the crappy $5 irons do not). This requires a controller to supervise, but also means the iron heats up much faster and maintains that temperature while soldering.

Other features like a temperature graph or adjusting calibration and control parameters are handy additions when you have a nice display like in the TS100. Realistically though, people aren't really writing their own TS100 firmware with the exception of a few tinkerers. What it comes with is good enough.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by kc3 on Thursday April 12, 2018 @02:54PM (#16823828)
Can you say where you can find a TS100 for ~$40? The cheapest I'm seeing is $50-55. Also, are there different versions you need to worry about or are they all the same? I assume you only want a "MINI TS100" vs. some of the other knock off brands.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by cerebellum42 on Sunday April 08, 2018 @06:44AM (#16785524)
I use a Weller W61C (80-90€), which is a soldering iron (not station) that regulates its temparature using magnetic tips. Bit of an oddball, but it works fine even for soldering most SMD stuff, and it's just delightfully simple. Just plug it in and start soldering. Takes up basically no space too, since it's just a soldering iron with no station.

For really fiddly SMD items I have a cheap hot air rework station, but I don't need it very often - mostly when I have to desolder something SMD or solder on an IC with a thermal pad on the bottom.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by pmorici on Friday April 06, 2018 @10:33PM (#16779092)
why bother with that when you can get a name brand adjustable temp iron for ~$100?
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by schwarze_pest on Monday April 09, 2018 @12:53PM (#16794709)
Because there are none. Please show me a name brand direct heating element soldering station for $100. I would like to buy one.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Viker on Saturday April 07, 2018 @04:23AM (#16779916)
I would actualy argue that the "MINI" TS100 is a name brand. Build Quality is Great. Preformance is on par with Hakko and Weller.

Also they have other great products.

The MINI Nano DSO203 is a great 4 Channel Digital Oscilloscope for around 100 USD... Also the Mini ES 121 is a piece of art screw driver :)

So yehh... I say it is a name brand ! And the Brand is "Mini"

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by jacquesm on Sunday April 08, 2018 @01:56PM (#16787292)
I could not recommend the DSO203 in good conscience, it has almost no isolation of the input channels which makes it downright dangerous.

It's nice if you only do audio or low voltage stuff but the first time you're going to point your probe at something a bit more beefy and you will let the magic smoke out (good case) or worse.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by taneq on Saturday April 07, 2018 @12:42AM (#16779396)
I have a $99 100w Duratech one and it's perfectly adequate, no different from the $400+ Weller ones I've used in the past.

If you're just doing a bit of soldering as a hobby, though, get leaded solder. It works so much better than the modern unleaded stuff. Just don't breathe the smoke.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by lsc on Sunday April 08, 2018 @12:05AM (#16784550)
>If you're just doing a bit of soldering as a hobby, though, get leaded solder. It works so much better than the modern unleaded stuff. Just don't breathe the smoke.

That is personally not the tradeoff I'd make.

Lead is a special kind of poison in that it makes you stupid before it kills you: This is especially true of children, but I don't want any of it on my adult self, either.

Note, you can also buy lead-free 'low temperature' solder, which has a lot of the same properties of lead solder, though it's more expensive.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by cerebellum42 on Sunday April 08, 2018 @06:48AM (#16785535)
As far as I know, many lead free solders produce more toxic smoke than leaded solder because they contain different types of flux. When soldering the leaded stuff, the lead in it doesn't get evaporated anyways. The smoke produced during soldering is mostly evaporated flux.

"don't breathe the smoke" is just generally good advice, and it definitely doesn't become less applicable if you use lead free solder.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by lsc on Sunday April 08, 2018 @06:16PM (#16788805)
I need citation on this idea that flux is just as toxic as lead.

Being a technician, I read the MSDS:

https://www.mgchemicals.com/downloads/msds/01%20English%20Ca...

vs:

https://www.mgchemicals.com/downloads/msds/01%20English%20Ca...

I mean, I ain't saying you should lick either one... and yeah, I don't know how much if any lead is released into the air during normal operation, but lead is pretty seriously toxic to humans, and avoiding touching the lead as I'm using it sounds kinda difficult. The flux? yeah, that isn't any good for you either, but I don't think it's in the same category as lead when it comes to toxicity.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by taneq on Sunday April 08, 2018 @08:33PM (#16789383)
Agreed on not licking either! I haven't been able to find anything conclusive saying how much lead you would get in the air when soldering, but the MSDS you linked says:

> Soft soldering temperatures (<450 °C) are generally too low to generate significant amounts of metal vapors, however, metal oxide fumes/dust or flux decomposition fumes can occur.

> RECOMMENDATION:

> For frequent or prolonged soldering processes, use of a local exhaust system to avoid exposure to thermal decomposition products. For example, use fume cabinet, a hood on a flexible arm, or tip-mounted fume extraction system on the soldering iron.

So if you're only occasionally soldering up a circuit board, you stay well ventilated, and you keep the solder temperature below 450°C (my soldering iron is usually set around 280°C - 300°C) then the risk seems pretty negligible. If you take up circuit board fabrication as a career then obviously you'd take it much more seriously. I should still give unleaded solder another shot, though - maybe it's improved since last time I tried it.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by lsc on Monday April 09, 2018 @12:36AM (#16790409)
>So if you're only occasionally soldering up a circuit board, you stay well ventilated, and you keep the solder temperature below 450°C (my soldering iron is usually set around 280°C - 300°C) then the risk seems pretty negligible.

I think the danger is in touching the lead directly; it's a soft metal and comes off on your hands to a certain extent, and my understanding is that some of the dross can end up as lead dust.

According to the NIOSH, just washing with soap is often not effective for removing lead from your hands,

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/lead/safe.html

>I should still give unleaded solder another shot, though - maybe it's improved since last time I tried it.

I'm starting to look into different formulations; I'd start with the SAC305 formulation. It's like 3.5% silver and slightly more expensive, but still cheap. and widely available.

Not that I'm any good at soldering myself.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by fhood on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:53PM (#16776800)
I don't think you even need to spend a few hundred. ~100 will pretty much do the trick.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by archgoon on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:21PM (#16777026)
> name brand soldering station

What's a good name brand for soldering irons?

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Kelbit on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:07PM (#16777450)
Get either a Hakko FX888D or a Weller WES51. I personally prefer the Hakko, but both are excellent stations that cost under $150 which will serve you for years if you take care of them.

A note - soldering stations usually come with a cheap conical tip as a starter tip. Pay an extra $20 or so to buy two chisel tips: a tiny one for fine work, and a big one for larger work. The flat surface allows you to apply more heat to the joint. Take care of your tips (ie: keep them tinned, don't leave the iron on too hot, and don't scrub too hard with the brass sponge) and the tips should last a few years without trouble.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by mikro2nd on Saturday April 07, 2018 @08:51AM (#16780506)
A thing to say in Weller's favour: They stock parts forever. My Weller station is somthing like 35 years old, now, still works perfectly. But someone damaged the sleeve that holds the tips in place. No problem, for a modest cost I could still buy a replacement, even though that particular part no longer fits any contemporary model of iron Weller sells. Kudos to them!
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Gibbon1 on Saturday April 07, 2018 @04:07AM (#16779880)
The WES51 as a solid soldering iron. You can get ones with a display readout but it's less useful than you might think. Most of the time you just set the temp and then switch tips if you need more or less heat transfer. Need to solder something large or stubborn? Using a phat chisel tip is better than upping the temp. Too hot and the rosin quickly oxidizes and turns to varnish, which prevents the solder from wetting.

Also tips, get a hooked tip, about 80% of the time it'll do the job.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Obi_Juan_Kenobi on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:01PM (#16777852)
YiHUA (or other genetic Chinese brand) 936B clones are plenty cheap (less than $30 shipped IIRC) and are actually quite good.

Yes, the Hakko's are really nice and quality, but the Chinese clones are honestly 'good enough' for many people. They're workhorse machines that see tons of use in their native market.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by dazhbog on Friday April 06, 2018 @07:08PM (#16778280)
I recommend the TS100 (<$100 budget) and JBC ($300-$500 budget). After getting a decent soldering iron I never looked back. Yes its expensive, but so are the parts you destroy with the crappy $30 irons, or the frustration of soldering big copper pads and the tip cooling down in the middle of the process.

Regarding the JBC, after the initial investment, various the tips (chinese clones ~$5 or even originals ~$25) add so much incremental value to the soldering iron base for such a little extra cost.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by dirktheman on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:37PM (#16777671)
Hakko and Weller are a solid choice, but I purchased a programmable TS100 last year and haven't looked back since. I solder a lot on drones and it's just delightful to work with: so light, quick to heat, it has an OLED screen built in, changeable tips and it's programmable. All that for under $50 there's nothing that I would recommend more.

If you're soldering for a living there are probably better suited soldering stations, but if you're just starting out: get this one.

Also: don't skimp on tin. Good quality soldering tin makes a huge difference!

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by NegativeLatency on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:34PM (#16777142)
Hakko
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by coryrc on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:33PM (#16777138)
Weller. Though I have a Aoyue hot air station and it is great.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by ninjakeyboard on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:08PM (#16777460)
I have a chinese hakko clone I got for $120 - it's good enough for my use.

Get a small airfilter/fan if you're going to solder a lot.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by ninjakeyboard on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:07PM (#16777452)
+1 I was using thicker solder for a while and it was a mess. Getting thinner 60/40 flux code made a HUGE difference in my ability to build boards.

It doesn't have to be super thin but thinner is 100% better than thicker.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by crtlaltdel on Friday April 06, 2018 @04:21PM (#16777028)
buy a weller and use appropriately sized solder for the application (very thin solder sucks really bad if you are doing something like throughhole or larger parts...you will have to apply the heat longer to apply enough solder)
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by mindslight on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:58PM (#16778214)
IMHO thin solder is also annoying on larger joints due to less of a flux core.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Doxin on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @04:54AM (#16799982)
or get a hakko clone from aliexpress. half the price and just as good in my experience.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by cr0sh on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:06PM (#16777894)
> The cheap-o $15 soldering irons all produce horrible results and will shatter your confidence...

I would make the opposite argument that if you can get great results from a cheap-o soldering iron, your confidence and ability will soar thereafter.

Recall that, back in the really early days, soldering irons were large affairs, consisting of a large block of copper heated via a gasoline or kerosene torch, with a large wood handle and a steel shaft:

https://www.stevenjohnson.com/soldering/pics/old-reliable.jp...

Electrical ones weren't much better:

https://www.stevenjohnson.com/soldering/pics/ge-1911.jpg

Now granted, connections were mostly "free-air" and not PCB based or similar. Also, some of those irons were meant for soldering sheet metal, not really electronics or electrical work - but that's what people had at the time...

When I learned to solder thru-hole electronics, I learned with what could be called a "cheap-o" soldering iron; something like this (maybe not as nice looking):

https://www.circuitspecialists.com/content/image/104526/600/...

I still have it, and still use it occasionally. It takes "forever" to heat up (about 10-15 minutes), and the tip looks like hell. But for thru-hole construction, it works great. Once you know how to use it, you can solder like a champ.

Would I use it for SMT rework? No. Basically it's virtually worthless for anything with less than 0.1" pitch, unless you're removing parts and just need to dump a lot of heat in a small area.

The key to successful soldering is knowing how to control and place the heat where you need it, and flowing the solder into the joint properly. Most make the mistake of not tinning their iron or the part leads, then trying to flow the solder using the tip of the iron, where all it does is stick the iron tip. Instead, you have to heat the component's lead(s), and flow the solder using the heat on the lead(s). Tinning both the iron and the leads helps with this as well. Flux can also help, but if you use a decent flux-core solder (preferably 63/37 ratio tin-lead), flux should rarely be needed. A paste flux is useful though for cleaning the tip of the iron, especially when shutting down for the day.

It's kinda like arc welding. Sure, MIG can be easy to learn. But if you really want to understand, start with rod (stick) first. Yeah, you'll stick the rod continuously, cussing a storm up at first. But after a while, you'll develop the knack of keeping that weld pool just right and moving the rod while feeding it in, without sticking. Once you've done that, MIG is nothing...

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Gibbon1 on Saturday April 07, 2018 @04:11AM (#16779889)
> I would make the opposite argument that if you can get great results from a cheap-o soldering iron, your confidence and ability will soar thereafter.

I tend to disagree, when you're learning is not the time to be fighting your tools.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by OrganicMSG on Saturday April 07, 2018 @05:07AM (#16779998)
When learning, I tend to buy something cheap I can destroy, knowing I'll be fighting it. Then I buy something expensive and everything is lovely.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by stingrae on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:03PM (#16777419)
I would add a logic analyzer before oscilloscope. You can get good ones for pretty cheap now. https://www.saleae.com/ It is so nice to be able to see what is actually going on when debugging interfaces.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by keithnz on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:39PM (#16778118)
for learning electronics? why? I'd say an oscilloscope way before a logic analyzer as it allows you to see what circuits are doing. Learning what analog circuits are doing is much more useful for learning than seeing digital signalling.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by stingrae on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:55PM (#16778197)
I think most people getting into electronics won't be doing analog designs. They'll probably be messing around with various sensor devkits (sparkfun, adafruit, etc.) and Arduinos/RaspberryPis/ESP8266. With these you'll be messing around with primarily I2C and SPI which is why a cheap logic analyzer is cool also they are much cheaper than an oscilloscope and some have some analog functionality.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by tzs on Friday April 06, 2018 @11:57PM (#16779294)
> With these you'll be messing around with primarily I2C and SPI

On the other hand, if you get the right cheap oscilloscope, such as a Rigol 1054z, which goes for $350 [1] and add the $180 "serial bus analysis" option, the 'scope will know how to trigger on and decode I2C, SPI, RS232 protocols.

If you don't mind using cracks, you can enable the serial bus analysis option for free, and also double the memory and the bandwidth.

Rigol's response to the crack is interesting. The cracks work because they used a key length for a cryptographic key in their firmware that is short enough to fairly easily brute force. It's hard to see how this could be accidental. Further suggesting that it is not accidental is the fact that they could have easily fixed this once people figured it out, but they have not.

That has led to speculation that they purposefully did this, so that hobbyists could easily crack the thing and get all the features.

Professional users could also crack it, but they would be reluctant to do so, because of potential liability issues. If you are a pro, and you design something the ends up used in a system that causes harm, and it comes out you were using hacked test equipment, the plaintiff's lawyers will be all over that.

If that is the case, it was an excellent strategy. Over on /r/electronics or /r/AskElectronics, you ask for a 'scope recommendation as a hobbyist or student, and almost all the responses will say get the DS1054z and crack it.

[1] https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscop...

[2] https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/SA-DS1000Z/Options/

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by keithnz on Friday April 06, 2018 @08:17PM (#16778636)
maybe, but even with those, unless it's because you really want to look at I2C / SPI, mostly that just works.

I'm not sure what people mean when they say they want to learn electronics, whether they are talking about getting a micro based kit and hooking things up to it and programming it or whether they want to understand circuits and components and how they work. If it's the latter, then go with a scope.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by dazhbog on Friday April 06, 2018 @07:12PM (#16778294)
True, it's good to see the scope while poking around. Also scopes can do higher voltages than salaes' analyzers. But to their defense, the newer analog + digital analysers are really decent for $200.

Annnd they doubled their prices, oscilloscope it is.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by tazard on Friday April 06, 2018 @10:18PM (#16779054)
Why not both? I somewhat recently purchased the EspoTek Labrador. It's both and a lot more for roughly $30. Of course it's nowhere near as good as single purpose/professional grade equipment, but for learning it's a great device.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by taneq on Saturday April 07, 2018 @12:44AM (#16779407)
Depends what you're doing, but maybe yeah if it's just digital stuff. 10x faster to trace issues using a logic analyzer than looking at 1 or 2 signals at a time.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by chrsstrm on Friday April 06, 2018 @09:13PM (#16778857)
The last time I looked into power supplies they were somewhat cost prohibitive for my twice a year hardware project habit. Have things changed? Are there some good bang for your buck supplies that can be had for a couple hundred bucks or so?
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by smoyer on Friday April 06, 2018 @09:19PM (#16778878)
I've got dozens of P/S from old computers that put out plenty of 5VDC as well as +/-12VDC. One good bench supply should be enough these days.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by chrsstrm on Friday April 06, 2018 @09:35PM (#16778936)
I was referring to a bench supply, although maybe I should have looked before asking. The number of DC bench supplies available in the $100 range is huge. This seems like a big price shift over the past couple years.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by smoyer on Friday April 06, 2018 @09:20PM (#16778882)
Add an anti-static mat and wrist strap to that list!
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by auvrw on Sunday April 08, 2018 @02:32AM (#16784924)
i suggest (as someone who still knows nothing about electronics) that oscilloscopes are a "must have." cathode-ray-tube style from ebay are more affordable.

also, Horowitz and Hill, to echo what i suppose is mentioned elsewhere.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by jacquesm on Sunday April 08, 2018 @01:33PM (#16787176)
You can pick up good scopes from army surplus. That's how I got my Tek.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by ThatPlayer on Friday April 06, 2018 @08:52PM (#16778791)
I found my set of Engineer PA-09 crimp pliers does a better job than one of the cheap ratcheting crimping tools. Got them to do the smaller JST crimps, but they do Dupont pretty well too.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Obi_Juan_Kenobi on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:58PM (#16777832)
I essentially started electronics because of Big Clive. I found him entertaining, and his curiosity rubbed off. It's nice to have a simple, practical context for learning the basics, and his channel provides that in spades.

As for gearing up, I think $300 is way on the high end. A cheap $10 temp-controlled soldering iron, solder, flux, and flush-cut snips are most of what you need. I'd add in some assorted parts bags; you can get like 20 each of dozens of different resistors in a big sack for $15 on eBay. Do that for common stuff like LEDs, capacitors, transistors, and some arduinos and such, and you're good to go. Could be well under $100 for a good start.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by matthewwiese on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:33PM (#16776616)
To add to this: Ben Eater [1]!

His YouTube videos are incredibly accessible despite their technical depth. Once you get your feet wet with the basics, I highly recommend his videos. They are a treasure trove of information while simultaneously being easy to understand & follow. I wish my professors could teach like him.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/user/eaterbc

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by godelski on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:22PM (#16777574)
He also does a podcast with 3Blue1Brown. Though 3B1B isn't electronics, but great for math.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by carelesswhisper on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:53PM (#16776795)
This way of learning resonates a lot with how I learnt to properly cook. I could cook some simple enough dishes fine, but then I got really into watching a few cooking channels on YouTube and (with a bit of practice) noticeably improved.

It’s actually mad the amount of stuff you pick up through watching someone who’s good at what they do doing it and explaining it well, prodding at your understanding while they do it.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by efigle2501 on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:12PM (#16777490)
Can you recommend some channels? I can cook, but I'd like to learn more.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by carelesswhisper on Saturday April 07, 2018 @05:17AM (#16780027)
My go-to ones have been:

Binging with Babish/Basics with Babish This guys shtick is that he recreates dishes from film/tv. He used to be a video editor iirc so the production quality is great and it’s very focused on the food itself (as you can tell by you very rarely seeing his face). As he got more popular he made the Basics series. Can’t recommend them both enough Binging: https://youtu.be/bJUiWdM__Qw Basics: https://youtu.be/Upqp21Dm5vg

Food Wishes This is done by a guy called Chef John. Similarly to Babish he’s very focused on the food/process, and is very good at explaining some principles and encouraging you to think for yourself (he’ll often not give precise amounts and encourage you to add some, taste, add more if needed). His voice/inflections can be grating when you first watch his videos but you grow to love it. He’s got an endless supply of all sorts of dishes so he’s a great resource https://youtu.be/ifWWRZSWS18

It’s Alive with Brad/Bon Appetit This is a series from a channel about making pickled/fermented food. A lot more specific but it’s hilarious and I’ve made some of the stuff from the series and really enjoyed it. Even if you’re not gonna make any of this stuff I’d still recommend these for pure entertainment value. There’s also a bunch of content on Bon Appetit (the channel), some of Claire’s vids are very good, mostly baking-related. Brad: https://youtu.be/UGjCeAbWKPo Claire: https://youtu.be/yxGczEE3NSw

Other channels I’ll look at include Alex French Guy Cooking and J Kenji Lopez Alt. Alex does a lot of cool stuff on Ramen, and is quite experimental, exploring different techniques for doing things etc. Kenji is very scientific with how he cooks things and explains the reasoning behind, say, why you should shake your boiled potatoes before you put them in the oven to roast them. Alex: https://youtu.be/HzIdk8UHHUU Kenji: https://youtu.be/argKpeiKFfo

If I think of any others I’ll comment again!

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by jamiek88 on Sunday April 08, 2018 @12:08PM (#16786735)
This is very helpful.

My wife likes watching cooking shows but it is more about the competition and elimination/personalities than the technical side of the cooking etc.

I like to cook, she doesn't really - she bakes so it works out okay as a team - and I kind of watch along but these links are way more relevant to me personally.

Appreciate it!

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by mutagen on Saturday April 07, 2018 @10:48PM (#16784332)
Fantastic recommendations! This hits my favorites out of my wife's cooking viewing and they've both entertained and improved our cooking and the enjoyment of creating memorable dishes.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by garfieldnate on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @05:43AM (#16809473)
How do these compare to Good Eats, besides being more readily available?
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Tcepsa on Monday April 09, 2018 @12:14AM (#16790318)
+1 for Alex French Guy Cooking (mentioned in sibling comment). I like his method of chopping onions; most of the onions I chop don't need to look particularly pretty, so it's great.

Also, You Suck At Cooking https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCekQr9znsk2vWxBo3YiLq2w is one of my guilty pleasures. I think he's hilarious and figured it was purely a spoof channel, but then I actually watched a couple and if you don't mind and/or enjoy his fooling around (and have a moderately well-tuned BS detector to tell when he's fooling around) the recipes are pretty good. I particularly like how he doesn't spend a whole lot of time measuring things out. It's a great counter to the precision generally present in recipe books, which used to be a big hangup for me (pipettes broth into Pyrex measuring cup "gotta get EXACTLY 1 C broth in this soup!" => dumps broth into drinking glass "Eh, close enough!") I'm still adjusting to that style but it has already saved me both time and unnecessary tension. (Seriously. The error margins in most cooking seem ridiculously large to me!)

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by iopuy on Friday April 06, 2018 @11:47PM (#16779275)
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by cf498 on Saturday April 07, 2018 @04:47AM (#16779966)
Her cooking tutorials consists of "How do you prepare Instant Mix XYZ"?

You sure thats the channel you meant?

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by danvayn on Saturday April 07, 2018 @04:04AM (#16779870)
Thank you.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by steamer25 on Saturday April 07, 2018 @12:05AM (#16779312)
Eugene Khutoryansky has lots of good animated visualizations. E.g., this one on Maxwell's equations: https://youtu.be/9Tm2c6NJH4Y

Circuit Jam helps a bit for practice: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.circuitjam

Also, stack exchange: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions?sort=votes

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by simonebrunozzi on Saturday April 07, 2018 @08:09PM (#16783797)
No, no and no. If I watch even 10 Youtube videos without building anything, I give up.

I'd love to learn electronics. You know what I need? ONE Youtube video, and a single kit I can buy on Amazon.com to build what's shown on the video. Then a second video, and an exercise (either with the same kit, or something else).

That's how I would stick to it.

Too often, people like you think that the issue of learning is about finding information. It's not! In the age of internet and being one or two click away from everything, the issue is simply to keep the motivation high.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by p1esk on Sunday April 08, 2018 @02:26AM (#16784908)
This is true. I think the key is to find something that you really want to build. This is easier to do as a kid, because a lot more of simple things are exciting.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by ElijahLynn on Sunday April 15, 2018 @01:11PM (#16843622)
Thank you for your comment on the "How to Self-Learn Electronics?" Hacker News thread.

"YouTube University. Seriously: watch 30, 50, or a 100 videos. You will develop an intuition for what is happening. THEN read books (some good ones already suggested in other comments) and you will learn the concrete theory."

I have been thinking a lot about it in the past few days, and it makes a lot of sense, and may be very helpful in helping me increase my learning speed. I am not referring to electronics just yet but learning in general. Whenever I want to learn how to make a new dish in the kitchen such as fried tofu, kettle corn, carmel corn, etc. I will simply watch 5-10 YouTube videos and just absorb what makes sense, and I think this may be called intuition and it is nice to realize what is happening.

In regards to learning software engineering though, I don't do that as often, although I did with HTTP/2 and it was fantastic. I do watch a lot of videos but I also slog through a lot of technical books at a slow-reading style pace. It is very helpful BUT I see that I will be limited in my learning throughout my life to just a few subjects at this rate.

I am going to now follow your advice and watch 5-10 hours of videos on new topics before doing the deep dives into the books and still deep dive, but now I will have that intuition.

Thanks for sharing that, it has had an effect on my future!

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by adamnemecek on Friday April 06, 2018 @03:40PM (#16776676)
I wish people understood this progression and like learning happened on this curve.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by qume on Monday April 09, 2018 @04:52PM (#16796886)
Sorry to not add anything here but I feel its important to emphasise this post. This post is so spot on.
Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by tunap on Saturday April 07, 2018 @09:27PM (#16784039)
"Shop on Aliexpress (or sometimes Amazon or Ebay)." Buying from potential(probability:good on listed sites) 2nd & rejected lots will torpedo any initial enthusiasm. Go to mouser.com.

Not an advert, nor affiliated, just happy with their products & service.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by amenghra on Friday April 06, 2018 @09:23PM (#16778900)
If you are on a shoestring budget, you can get many things for free/cheap.

Eg ask component manufacturers to send you samples, recycle electronics from things you or others throw away, etc.

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by minhaz23 on Saturday April 07, 2018 @06:07AM (#16780125)
Do you think the same intuition can be developed watching videos for things like woodworking?

What about home improvement/construction?

Thoughts/opinions anyone?

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by Aengeuad on Saturday April 07, 2018 @07:16AM (#16780281)
>Do you think the same intuition can be developed watching videos for things like woodworking?

Absolutely, whether it's electronics, woodworking, cooking, mechanics, or whatever skill you choose, you can develop an intuition for a particular craft by watching others perform it. Even if it's not something inherently educational you'll still pick up bits and pieces of information, and things like technique and methods to approach a problem become evident the more you watch.

If you're looking for some suggestions on woodworking channels, I wholeheartedly recommend Matthias Wandel[0], as well as John Heisz[1], as these channels are both very approachable and are often presented in a 'how to' fashion, providing plans for their work in the descriptions. There's no shortage to channels dedicated to teaching woodworking or home improvement if you just look for them, although some are less approachable than others, an example of this would be mtmwood[2] which is presented in Russian although knowing Russian is not necessary to understand the videos. He tends to make some pretty neat and complicated cutting boards[3].

Although I must stress, don't skip the book learning with something like woodworking or home improvement, knowing how to operate power tools safely as well as taking personal protection seriously is absolutely essential.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/user/Matthiaswandel

[1] https://www.youtube.com/user/jpheisz

[2] https://www.youtube.com/user/mtmwood

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVB5zjTraLk

Re:Ask HN: How to self-learn electronics? by minhaz23 on Saturday April 07, 2018 @08:15PM (#16783815)
Thank you I appreciate it a lot.

Thanks for the suggestions. The thing I like about youtube is unlike other things like books, articles, that I always bookmark to look at later, I can immediately immerse myself into youtube.

Any recommendations for home improvement? Or maybe other hobbies you find interesting like watch making?

Thanks again!