For a contrasting perspective, I went Android to iPhone and I can say it sent me running back to Pixel as fast as I could for basic usability.

I recently switched from a pixel to the iPhone X since the pixel 2 seemed very underwhelming to me. I'm honestly surprised how easy the switch was and how much more I like the X/iOS than the pixel/android. The one thing iOS is sorely missing is the notification bundling.

I tried the same thing and my biggest problem with iOS is that it feels like you can't cancel most animations. They take forever and you have to wait for them to finish either for it to actually allow you to continue or to be able to reliably hit the next target. It just felt so much slower than Android.

Funny, I've never had a problem using my iPhone. Care to elaborate?

Android has three buttons rather than one, reducing menu fatigue. System settings are more customizable and generally easier to and more intuitive to use. Launcher screen be replaced by 3rd party app. Keyboard can be replaced by 3rd party app. Browsers can run any engine they want. Apps can host code. Terminal is a first class citizen. Phones can have the bootloader unlocked legally. Supports launch screen widgets. Better integration with Google services.

Sorry if iPhone now supports any of these. It didn't when I switched over from a 4.

Recent Android to iPhone switcher here.

>System settings are more customizable

I don’t know exactly what you mean by system settings, but iOS has a decent settings system. Android’s settings page UI is better, but iOS has a really impressive range of settings especially if you go into the accessibility menu. It has all sorts of detailed changes you can make to the UI and control scheme for the phone.

>Keyboard can be replaced by 3rd party app.

iOS has this now.

There are some things I miss from Android - one is the notification LED. Accessibility sets will let you use the flash as a notification light, but it’s a little bit more than I need.

Face ID is fantastic. I love how it sensors my message notifications until I look directly at the screen (this is configurable).

> Apps can host code.

You say that like it's a good thing.

It is if you are a programmer. Must everything be locked down and controlled by a corporation for our safety? Are you aware of any issues this has caused on Android?

People are used to how their phones work, it's a form of lock-in. I can't figure out how a Mac works, never mind an iPhone. I just get annoyed in the first 10 seconds and give up. If iPhone could be made to work more like Android, I'd switch to the superior Apple privacy story. As it stands I really hate using Apple UIs.

Atleast give some constructive complaints, hating the UI sounds like a personal rant and not a good one as well when the whole world copies Apple's UI.

It's objectively awkward.

Just few examples from my use of a mac:

You open xCode, nothing appears, it just changed top menu. You click on any other app in the meantime, and you need to go back to dock to do same action that opened it in first place.

You try to maximize window? For some reason it will move to other desktop.

You try to drag a window to the side, like in every other OS, to have it on half on screen? Nooo, users prefer long clicking on little maximize icon. (and there's a ton of other hidden actions like this, looks like new users should just right click every control possible to discover them)

Mouse support is completely broken, looks like acceleration is optimized for touchpad, and you cannot fix it in settings.

And worst of all, I have to deal with this 'perfect UX' because, no you won't be able to develop an iPhone app on your Linux PC.

Some of them are valid complaints.

> I have to deal with this 'perfect UX'

No one is forcing you to do that, just walk away but we know you are not going to do that.

I was literally forced to buy a mac, and an iPhone, which are idling 90% of time.

If I would be able to compile and upload iOS apps on Linux, and run safari to test frontend, I'd toss both of them out the window that second.

Microsoft is providing VMs for free if you want to test if stuff works under IE/Edge.

Apple is providing a big F you, buy our stuff.

> I was literally forced to buy a mac, and an iPhone, which are idling 90% of time.

You are always free to not buy and just walk away from Apple ecosystem but we all know you are not going to do that.

Like, can you actually read, or are you trolling?

Should I tell my clients that I won't do iOS version of their app and that I don't care that their frontend will not have workarounds for bug ridden Safari?

I didn't have to buy Microsoft hardware to support Edge and Windows Phone.

I didn't have to buy Google hardware to support Android.

I had to buy Apple hardware to support iOS and Safari.

So no, I'm not free to not have a mac standing next to my real computer.

> Like, can you actually read, or are you trolling?

This sort of thing will get you banned here. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this again.

Oh hey you are back for more trolling.

Let me repeat what I said in a different way.

You can vote with your wallet but we both know you are not going to do that.

Dont bother trolling again. Thanks

> Oh hey you are back for more trolling.

This sort of thing will get you banned here. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this again.

If Microsoft would do what Apple does currently, they would be fined for forbidden practices.

Only thing keeping Apple safe is insanely low market share.

Sad thing, that this minority is also loud as hell, so you have to support them :(

And this means voting with my wallet against my will.

How is this:

> People are used to how their phones work

hating on iPhone? It's explaining why both parent comments don't share the same opinion. Everything else I said was very explicitly subjective, am I not allowed to express that I don't like using something?

> whole world copies Apple's UI

That is absolutely false, outside of the Apple marketing machine. Everyone copied Xerox and UI subsequently evolved byways of everybody copying everyone else in one way or another. I've also yet to see an integrated menu on Windows or Linux (although I am sure there exists some exotic window manager that does it) - so there's one concept that hasn't been copied and is entirely invented. There's also the Office ribbon. The modern iteration of flat UIs was born of the Metro interface language, a Microsoft invention - this now features strongly on both macOS and iOS.

You are allowed to express your opinion but if you want others to take it seriously make some good points.

There is no need for a history lesson, you can shout about Xerox all you want but in the end It took Job/Apple to make the UI popular.

> It took Job/Apple to make the UI popular.

This is also not true, Microsoft made it pervasive: between 1996 and 2017 MacOS has only ever peaked at roughly 10-15% market share. It is during this period that the market cap of computer users increased from millions (which can hardly be called "popular") to billions.

This is also shifting the goal posts. Your original comment had absolutely nothing to do with "who made UI popular."

Looks someone does not like constructive feedback and instead tries to attack others.

Apple made a deal with Xerox and refined the UI while MS came in as pirate and did the rest.

Why is every mobile UI a copy of the first Iphone.

MS does not do design while Apple does that is the point.

Do you get it now or are you still going to attack me?

> Why is every mobile UI a copy of the first Iphone.

Windows Mobile was definitely not a copy of the first iPhone.[1] I already pointed out that it was, in fact, Apple who took inspiration from Metro - which was the first iteration of the modern flat UI.

[1]: https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/wp_ss_20...

Are you saying that Apple copied Windows Mobile UI for its first Iphone?

No, for its fourth or fifth or thereabouts? It happened years after Metro, as did Google Material Design (a fantastic improvement to the platform).

So others copied Apple's first Iphone UI.

Now do you get it or are you still going to argue about this?

You mean app drawer with icons, which Nokia 7650 had in 2003?

Or touch only operated interface from Motorola a1000 from 2004?

And those are not by any means first phones in each category.

and where are those companies today?

And why does it matter? Apple just ripped off their design, period.

It matters because it took Apple to show the world how to do it properly.

No they didn't. What they did is show the world how to create a marketing campaign.

They took it to the point when people thought that Apple invented 3g when iPhone 3g went out, when it was on market for almost 10 years, and it was an update to what everyone else had already.

iPhone was way behind Symbian and Windows mobile at date of launch.

It didn't even have multitasking...

Also, use some arguments instead of switching topic every reply.

You accuse me of switching topic and then go and talk about 3g, how about practice what you preach?

Thank you for making my point I, you can do all the marketing you want but in the end you cannot sell a shitty product which Symbian and Windows Mobile learnt the hard way.

Apple succeeded because the user experience worked.

No, they succeeded because of aggressive marketing campaign, an example of which I provided.

Neither Symbian, nor WP phones had such campaigns, and this is why they got beaten by inferior product.

Why do you think Macs stopped selling when Jobs was gone, while ux didn't change?

Apples user experience is so bad, that there literally are paid Mac apps that fix their flaws. And they sell.

There are no iOS ones, since you cannot customize anything besides wallpaper and ringtone there, everything locked.

I bet you did not even have top tier phone other than iPhone in your hands, cause you'd admit it yourself.

Haha looks like you are rabid Apple hater.

You have been so blinded by your hate for Apple that you cannot even accept that all the companies which you mentioned (you forgot to mention Blackberry) could not adapt to a new revolutionary interface. They were so stuck in the past that they refused to move.

> There are no iOS ones, since you cannot customize anything besides wallpaper and ringtone there, everything locked

Hahah that is the Apple way, you have to live in the walled garden, normal people like that. Of Course you won't understand this point.

I think I finally understood why you dont get it, you are looking at this from your selfish perspective, you are not thinking from the average consumer's perspective. Once you see that you will understand why you are wrong.

Let me know if you dont understand I will help you out.

You are wrong again, how many times have you been wrong. I do have top tier Android phone as well.

What did you say about personal attacks? Did you just ran out of arguments?

I showed you that there was nothing revolutionary in first iPhone interface. It was copied from others. I even showed you what they ripped off. Yet you blindly blabber about how they invented it.

Your fanboy mind can't comprehend that, maybe cause you did not see background of iPhone evolution.

I understand that people will not buy best performing phone, rather one that is trendy.

And I stated once and again, apple is 99% marketing. They can make phone trendy.

Just admit it already. You have no arguments besides marketing sells phones. Whopping 12% of phones. If their marketing didn't manage to make it a status symbol a while ago, nobody would bother with such minority.

Go on, attack me again, or repeat your revolutionary ripped off user experience again ;)

I must be the first Apple fanboy who actively uses Windows and Android.

I guess we will agree to disagree, you want to support dinosaurs with revolutionary interface like using a stylus and physical keyboards on a mobile while I don't.

This was a fun conversation but I am not going to reply anymore to a troll :)

Well as usual, LG Prada had capacitive touchscreen = no stylus and keyboard first. Just to straighten out your false fact for last time.

As homework find something that apple actually invented for once.

Goodnight ;)

I give up.

No, they copied flat design in iOS 7.

Have you given macOS a serious chance? When I first tried it out, almost 10 years ago, I HATED it. But eventually I was convinced by my brother to give it a genuine chance for a week. Since then, I haven't gone back. Whenever I setup a linux PC, the first thing I do is fix the hotkeys to match macOS.

> hotkeys

If you have used Windows since Win95, CTRL+Left/Right is most-likely muscle memory. This hotkey also works in most Linux programs, including Vim and the terminal. It's practically as universal as ALT+F4. macOS does its own special thing. This is by and far the largest issue I have with macOS. It might sound silly, but keep in mind that I get thrown to a different desktop multiple times a minute, completely losing mental context each time, because I am using something that has the same effect everywhere else.

Assuming I could change the hotkeys to something less inane, I still wouldn't go near the ecosystem. I flat out refuse to spend $1700 on these specs[1] (i5 with Intel graphics), when I can spend $1899 on one of these[2] (i7 with GTX1060).

The iPhone is a different story and I might try it.

[1]: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro [2]: https://www.gigabyte.com/Laptop/AERO-15#kf

No file manager

No personal files - music, ebooks, videos

Slavishly tied to Apple appstore.

ITunes requirement in the past

Useless Apple iCloud which cannot be trusted in the event of disaster (no retention policy)

Proprietary chargers

Many Android apps are more mature and have more features than iPhone equivalents.

Pricing Of handsets.

Slow handsets after 1.5 years, due to amongst others planned obsolence.

Not one single thing you wrote would be considered basic usability for 99% of smart phone owners.

> Many Android apps are more mature and have more features than iPhone equivalents.

Lol. Ok. Even the most ardent Android supporters don't claim that Android's app ecosystem is nearly as mature as Apple's.

> Slow handsets after 1.5 years

Slower handsets after your battery has degraded enough that your phone risks shutdown, thereby prolonging the life of your device and ensuring it's available when you need it. Easily resolved by getting a new battery.

> planned obsolence.

That's blatant lie, and you know it.

99% of smartphone owners don't need a smartphone at all. You can do photos, calls, browse web and check social media on any feature phone.

The difference for that 1% is quite big in favor of android though.

>> planned obsolence.

>That's blatant lie, and you know it.

So you want to say the recent battery fuck up by Apple was totally unintentional? Of course software updates are designed to slow down your device after some years and it doesn’t matter if you use Apple/Microsoft/Google.

The long list of iOS 11 bugs and performance issues probably has something to do with it. I mean, it's just getting ridiculous now[1].

[1]https://youtu.be/61XqTT6xea4?t=45s

Do you really think someone couldn't come up with an equally long list of bugs in Android?

I've noticed a couple annoyances in iOS 11, but nothing at all that would make me consider switching. It's by no means ridiculous.

I'd like to see that list of Android 8 bugs and then compare it to iOS 11. You just need to look at the frequency of iOS 11 point releases to see what a mess they've created. They've released 10 iOS 11 updates so far and number 11 is just around the corner.

Characterizing iOS 11 as a mess is a gross exaggeration. If you told 99% of iPhone user's their phone was a mess, they wouldn't know what you were talking about. I would say Android version fragmentation is a significantly larger mess than anything Apple has ever done.

> You just need to look at the frequency of iOS 11 point releases to see what a mess they've created

Another interpretation is that they care more about software quality, and are fixing things that would be left broken by other manufacturers.

More Frequent updates doesn’t neccesaraly mean more bugs. It mostly means that they can patch the OS much more quickly and easily.

Also some of these updates are feature updates and many of the updates on iOS correspond to updates to play services as much as they aren’t updates to the core OS.

I used an iPhone 4S as an experiment during my travels in China, and kind of took a liking to it.

Of course, it was a one time fling. Android is the only way. Not a middleway, but the best way.

Clearly the only solution when on Android is to buy high end handsets and nothing at the mid or lower tiers.

And if you want things like "receiving updates" and "no bloatware, stock android" you have to compromise on the hardware side. Gets even worse when you add phone carriers and warranty to the mix (depending where you live).

I just hope Treble will allow us to install a signed stock ROM (custom ROMs don't count in my book) on any device so all that matters is the hardware and customer support.

   you have to compromise on the hardware side

Or, root the phone.

Rooting has it's own rusks and inconveniences, though.

yeah, it's more like a theoretical option, because rooting voids warranty, plus you have to have technical knowledge how to do it. It is difficult to imagine my dad rooting phone :)

>Google's hardware approach sucks

What is wrong with the Pixel hardware? (Have never owned one and have only heard good things)

I bought a 1st gen Pixel in December 2016, so it's just over a year old. I'm delighted with every part of the hardware, except the screen. After around 6 months I noticed that the nav buttons are really badly burned in where the nav buttons are located([1] picture is not mine but it demonstates what I mean, I believe at this point mine is much worse than in this picture).

This is due to the nav buttons being constantly visible in most apps, an option to hide them and only spring up when required would be perfect. It's not the end of the world but it's one of those things that once you notice it you can't forget it.

[1] https://www.thenextrex.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/enable...

Had this problem on my (beloved) Samsung Galaxy Nexus (i9250). It was released in Oct 2011, so I'm surprised it's a problem they still haven't fixed. I suppose longevity is only a small consideration to Google.

Yeah, it's quite a shame because I've always found the Google made phones to be the best. I had the Nexus 5 for 3+ years, and never had a problem with it. I think when it comes time to replace the Pixel I will have to look at other Android phones.

There must be an option in Display settings, named “Display Burn-In protection”. Do you have it enabled? Just curious, because I just purchased a Pixel 1.

Nope I cannot find that setting. I previously searched for such a setting and could not find it. Nothing in the display settings relates to burn in sadly.

I have a Pixel XL if that makes a difference but I doubt it, as they are practically the same phone.

https://imgur.com/4ZWCUsR

> This is due to the nav buttons being constantly visible in most apps, an option to hide them and only spring up when required would be perfect.

Samsung has that on the Note 8 (the 5 still had hardware buttons, I'm not sure about the 7, or other lines, though the Note 8’s dimensions means that it is probably the phone that needs it least for real estate reasons, so I'd imagine it's across the line.)

Yeah my colleague has an S8 and it also has this function. It is possible to enable "Immersive Mode" on the pixel through an app and giving it root access through ADB. However it would be much easier if google just made it a toggleable setting.

Some people value headphone jacks, micro-SD expansion, dual-SIM support or other features that dont exist in the latest Pixels. These are all features that modern iPhones don't have either, so its a little hypocritical to call out Google if that is whats meant by the "sucks" part.

Only 2000 people are moving from HTC to Google, according to the article. HTC will then leave the phone market. I expect Google to continue following Apple's lead and remove more features. They also have to try to stop their IP from leaking out, and go through some culture shock working in Taiwan.

This is an opportunity for investors to hire the other HTC staff who refuse to join Google for ideological reasons (open designs, repairability) or who just didn't get hired. There's probably a few other people from iFixit, WebOS, Fairphone hanging around here.

YC Summer 2018 is open. I'm in Taiwan. Who wants to make a business plan?

Google has had a large data centre in Taiwan for ages. I suspect it's going to be more of a case of HTC staff having culture shock when joining Google.

Those don't exist in the iPhone either, so I'm not sure what you're arguing for. There's a reason most flagships don't have those anymore.

I haven't heard a single good reason beyond the manufacturers' ambitions.

How about this: most users do not care. The only thing I used from what you mention was headphone jack, but with iPhone 7 I got Beats X and all I can say: good riddance. I will argue that for most iPhone users whatever earbuds they find in the box are good enough. SD cards? Why would I want that…

You forgot about Samsung Galaxy devices, which have all of that and are the most successful mobile phones right next to iPhone.

Galaxy S and Note flagship lines actually had dropped removable storage several generations ago and recently brought it back.

+1 those few reasons mostly being water resistance (headphone jack) and compactness (everything)

I have no idea what I'm going to do once my OG Pixel stops being supported. The lack of headphone jack is a serious concern to me. It truly blows my mind that so many people are capable of accepting this!

I can accept the lack of removable storage and battery. But the headphone jack? That's just the end of the line for me.

You've probably heard this from other people, but I recently switched from a Pixel to a Pixel 2 and was worried about losing the headphone jack as well.

Surprisingly, it hasn't bothered me at all. The battery life is long enough (and fast chase is fast enough) that I never need to charge my phone and listen to it at the same time, and I haven't noticed any difference in sound quality using Google's provided dongle.

Yep. Back when they were much more simple (like gingerbread?) I felt they hit the usability peak. My Pixel 2XL has a lot more features. It's certainly faster and better in almost every way, but it has so many trivial user experience bugs that it blows my mind that QA isn't fired.

If you could still use your gingerbread phone, you might be amazed how far it's come. I found an old Galaxy phone with 2.3 on it, and it was incredible how differently I remembered it. It was slow and clunky, and ugly by today's standard.

Has the responsiveness improved? It has been a while since I tried out android (htc one and galaxy s4) but I think the biggest thing that drove me back to iphone is UI.

Do yourself a favour and try out Note 8 in a store.

I would be amazed if I thought differently. I still adore my htc dream.

yeah I'm pretty sure an iphone 4 isn't doing that great either.

Android's QA has always been terrible. As a Nexus user, I guess being a beta tester was part of the deal, but there's no way I'm spending $900 on a Pixel 2XL to replace my Nexus 6P. Nothing justifies the premium price really.

I've had no problems with the Pixel 2, I actually love. it.

So I guess what I'm trying to say here is:

OK GUY.

I hate most of the redesign of going all white. Especially in Settings sometimes it is not clear what is a button and what is just text.

I completely agree, but It wouldn't be a major Android update without the changing of the way settings looks.

> most of the simple things in a user unfriendly way

Care to elaborate? The thing I value about Android is how I can setup the things "my way" vs. "Johnny Ive" way and so make important things far more simple to do than on iPhone.

Also interesting that you chose to test waters with sub par hardware vs. going top of the line Samsung. Both Google and OnePlus are well known to have hardware reliability issues.

Their software also sucks compared to the “just-works” ios and its integration.

You mean it sucks because one can customize it? I remember when I got the iPhone 3gs back then and was surprised you couldn't set a background picture.

Oh and these days iOS is still very locked down. So it just works because you are not allowed to do much. (Like having an app like Tasker for example, or choosing if your USB port on your phone should be used for storage, charging only, or even charging other devices).

Why would I want to customize it? It's the same reason I stopped using linux between 2010 and 2017 (I just built an Ubuntu box for DL, dual booted with windows ofc). The more "stuff" is abstracted away so I can get done what I need to is ideal for me.

So you would not want to be able to easily just plug in your phone into the PC and transfer files normally without having to install iTunes etc. (and even that can't do it)?

You would not want to automate certain things? (Like if you are on work wifi, automatically mute phone for example)

You wouldn't want to be able to get OBD II data from your car through your phone?

Wouldn't you want to be able to use Firefox with a firefox engine and not safari webkit?

and and and

All these are possible with stock android. Not even talking about hacky customizations.

No, I really don't have a need to transfer the proverbial "files" straight from my PC to my iphone. I don't need it to be a USB stick. I like that itunes manages my phone. And I have my icloud documents in my phone anyways in case I need them, which I never have.