You are contributing to her horrific lifestyle. You need to cut everything off. There is no other way to save her and yourself.
Its hard to effectively choose for someone you care so deeply about, to suffer. Even if they need it badly.
But for a few years, he's probably on the hook for half his income since she was stay-at-home with no career.
It sounds like you've been a good husband to her. Women don't forget good treatment, even you feel like it's not being recognized. If she was abused by a man, it's possible she sees all men as villains, including you, as a consequence of the trauma, and that's not your fault.
You have to take care of yourself first. Put on your oxygen mask before helping others, etc. But it's obvious you still care about her and that's commendable.
Don't rely on forums like this for advice. People here tend to be bitter and antisocial. Stick with the therapy. It sounds like you are emotionally dependent on her, and that's not helping. If your therapist isn't helping you, try another one. Your goal should be fixing you. Not her.
Also: you keep mentioning how you work from home. If you do get back together (which it sounds like you won't, but stranger things have happened), do yourself a favor and get an on-site job. Your relationship will improve instantly.
Think it's really important to get involved in a local community where you can forge high-quality long-term relationships with emotionally healthy people whenever you move to a new place. Loneliness can kill you otherwise. For me, it'd usually be a church where I can focus on developing myself personally and spiritually, as well as bonds with others in a really non-judgmental environment. Realize that's not for everyone, and that many people actually experience church to be a very judgmental place. Sorry to anyone who's been through that.
Sounds like you're still supporting her financially. Don't know if you're hoping to get her back, or if you've given up and cut her loose. It's possible that the only thing you can do is cut her loose at this point because you're only acting as an enabler. I am not a psychologist. Wish you well. edit: realize from the other comments, maybe alimony is involved. If so, very sorry to hear. IANAL, but that sounds like a really raw deal where you should consult a lawyer, if that's the case?
And no, no alimony. No court order. Just trying to figure out how to cut her off in the right way. We are used to a pretty lavish lifestyle and honestly I just feel bad for her. I need to not.
Except the one sided polygamy thing, that is plain old cheating. Through, I don't get why you did not divorced? You would still have to play for children, unless you fight to have them with you (or dual care), but chances are it would be less then you pay now. She is in early 20s you say, so it is not like she would be really dependent on your money cause she sacrificed career or something. Frankly, it sounds like the best thing for her would be for you to stop paying her bills.
And I hear you, but - I work from home. When I said “come home from work” I just meant it like...end of the day. I don’t know why I still use that phrase. Sometimes I go work at coffee shops or something, so then I’ll come home. Sure maybe I’m not as present, since I am working, but she has it so much better than so many others out there..
I’ve worked from home for years. She’s had me home. I help with our child. I cooked dinner. I did the chores. It wasn’t like she was even the only stay at home parent...
I haven’t gotten divorced yet because I hold onto that vision of her coming back and begging for forgiveness. But I should know that’s not going to happen. And even if it did, after all this, idk if I could even take her back. I should probably just file...
If you by the end of your home work have to ask how was the day and then are surprised over those Facebook details, then there is not much difference against being at work from the relationship standpoint. I don't mean it as blame you, just that this would factor in into relationship social network present or not.
But you know, that does not explain polygamy part still. Not your fear of child being used against you.
I’ve been going to therapy for 2 months now independently. We did one appointment together. She cancelled her follow up.
We agreed to go to counseling together over a year ago but she just never followed through, even when I tried to.
Send me an email (it's on my profile) and I will send you a couple of materials to help you cope with that kind of life situation.
Stay strong.
And agreed. Makes me wonder how many are struggling out there with something similar. Tons I’m sure. Not only on a romantic level, but in all types of friendships and relationships. Social media is not helping our shallow human tendencies.
Are you forced by the courts to pay her that $4K+/month? Because it would probably be better (not only for you, which is obvious, but for her) if you didn't.
I pay for her because honestly I’m scared of the lifestyle my child will live. She doesn’t work. She makes no money. She would be on the streets honestly. Doesn’t speak to either of her parents.
I recently emptied our joint bank account save $100. She flipped. Every time I cut her off more she gets more and more spiteful. So I’m in the process of cutting the lease on her house. Of selling the car. It’s just gonna take time, but I’m trying to avoid the court as well. Not that I have done literally anything wrong - I’m not scared of a judge ruling anything in her favor. I just want to avoid any chance of being in that situation though. Seeing I have about a lot more per year more to lose than she does...
The early childhood abuse, unstable relationships and “the void” seem like a strong fit.
One possibly good outcome is she has no access to your finances and you stay married. That way no court orders you to do anything.
Definitely recommend spend $1k with a divorce attorney to see your options.
If she'd be on the streets, that's her choice. Give her an ultimatum and let her live with the consequences.
Thanks for the advice. Going to seek those options.
I would admonish that you get a lawyer ASAP and talk out your options. This needs to be handled legally before someone does something they regret.
You can always decide to be more generous later, but let that be your decision, not hers or some disinterested third party that will assume that you went on living this way because you consented.
Hiring a lawyer isn't something you'll regret for years, not doing so on the other hand...
As someone who is living a non~monogamous lifestyle, I want to chime in about that aspect. When two people are in a monogamous relationship and one person decides/discovers that they want to open it up, they don’t get to just do that to their partner. It is still not consensual if they never got informed, non-coerced consent. It needs to involve lots of talking (much more than simply saying “I’m doing this now”), it may need to involve marriage counseling, and it absolutely needs to be done with love. The label “polyamory” in particular designates multiple meaningful, loving relationships, I.e. not just bringing people home, especially if you as her first partner aren’t cool with it. That ain’t polyamory, or any kind of consensual non~monogamy, because her actions are not taking your well-being into account, so if she’s calling it that then she’s fooling herself. (This still applies even if you agreed to try it out and it became clear that it didn’t work for you and you told her as much.)
Opening up an existing relationship is not an easy change to make, and it requires both partners to be on board, and it is absolutely fine for you to know that that’s not your relationship style and that you don’t want to continue a relationship with someone who has decided that it is hers. There is no need to feel bad about discovering that you are incompatible with each other and going your separate ways. I’m sorry that she didn’t know or care enough to handle the situation constructively though, that’s extra pain that could have been avoided.
It’s a shitty situation but you can bounce back from it. I was 29 when I got out of my bad relationship. That was 6 or 7 years ago now and I’ve been enjoying life more than ever! Just make sure to spend time taking care of yourself, and don’t be afraid to ask people for help when you need it. Best of luck to you.
I did see a picture where we are happy in an open marriage. But not even close to the one that she is painting right now - the one she has gathered from the influence of IG influencers. And she has let me know many times she is not stopping.
Thanks for your insight.
"Early 20s" seems to be the major problem here. Not everybody wants to settle down at this age
Except if she wasn’t sure she didn’t want to settle down...she shouldn’t have. We didn’t have kids until after we were married. And even still I’m younger than her and I prefer being “settled down” or whatever you want to call it. She betrayed the commitment we had without ending it first. She tried to have her cake and eat it too.
As you have said, she had a void that needed to fill and a very difficult past to deal with. Being sure about what ones want is not that easy in that scenario. She probably got engaged with you hoping that you could fill that gap or simply because it could bring some stability to her life.
I don't blame you for having tough thoughts about her. You'll need a thick skin to get out of that relationship but it's not as simple as saying "if she wasn’t sure she didn’t want to settle down...she shouldn’t have".
Social media can't be responsible for that.
At least you didn't have kids. My sister's friend (a man) was married to a woman who left him for another woman. Two kids from the 6 year marriage. There was no "social media" element to the story. Sometimes people just change or snap, and is most likely because they get married too young in the first place.
Another person I know, a man, got married to his girlfriend - they'd been together for about 4 years and were happy. Big expensive wedding. Less than 12 months later he left her for another woman. Again, social media not involved at all. Just human relations.
And we have one child.
The funny thing is that the IG clique she’s in is ALL stay at home moms...being a mother is a big part of their identity. The irony that they are all completely not present in their realities with their children is totally lost on them. You really couldn’t write this shit.
I would think (not sure) that one significant contributing factor in psychological harm to children in context of divorce is the undermining of notions of love, loyalty. And I would think being front row observers of instability in human relations is also damaging to young ones.
~
My sincere condolences to OP regarding this awful situation, but please consider if continuing this situation will in fact have the same (if not worse) adverse effects on your little loved ones as a divorce.
You also mentioned your so-called-wife has broken relations with her parents. What about your parents? It is critically important that FAMILY love, fealty, support is demonstrated to your children.
Often nothing at all.
Have you thought of what you'll do when she hits reality and comes back begging for forgiveness?
And 4K just for bills. Not including the every-other-day $200 trip to Whole Foods for shit to juice.
I hope you’ve re-read what you yourself wrote here and realize how ridiculous it is.
I urge you to take some people’s advice here and talk to a lawyer immediately, start cutting her off of her privilege, and stop enabling her actions.
You’re doing her harm, you’re doing your kid harm, and you’re doing yourself harm. You’re not helping anyone in this situation by letting it go on like this and the soooner you recognize that, the better.
In fact, you’re making the situation worse with some of your actions. Talk to a lawyer. Talk to a lawyer. Talk to a lawyer. I can’t say it enough.
But I mean seriously. I didn’t ask for this so I still love/d her. Tell the person you love, the mother of your child, that you’re done putting a roof over their head. It’s hard. I know that’s no excuse. I need to grow a pair. But fuck. It’s hard.
The reality is that you’re contributing to your wife and kid’s long term demise even though in the short term you feel like and think you are helping them.
I can’t understand how difficult this situation is for you, but realizing that you are not helping at all with your money or your actions seems an important step to mentally take.
Think about the long term implications, not your short term attachments.
Read about the perspectives of children who had to suffer trough broken marriages where the parents stayed together for the kid. Nearly all of the kids say it would have been better if their parents had just broken up instead of keeping the facade going and fostering a toxic environment.
You need to talk to a psychologist.
He has already made several fatal moves:
1. Left the marital home which the courts will consider abandonment. She just won legal custody.
2. He is paying her $4K or whatever a month without any judicial order. None of this will count towards future spousal or child support - instead it is a gift that establishes her minimum financial need.
3. He is (probably) not documenting, down to the minute, the time he spends with his child. Again, there goes custody.
4. The next call from the playbook will be to get him for domestic violence. As the man, it is absolutely irrelevant if there is proof or not (see the Duluth Model). He's not recording every interaction with her, though he should be.
If you do nothing else, start reading: http://forum.mensdivorce.com/viewforum.php?f=12
1. His wife was bringing home lovers to have sex with in the marital bed while he was home. He was not okay with this and asked her to stop and she became violent, combatant, abusive and irrational, yelling, screaming, throwing things in front of their child.
2. He is paying for his child to live in his house. He has asked his wife to surrender their child to him and she has refused, saying she wants to raise the child in a commune with other pansexual stay-at-home house wives.
3. He has reconstructed down to the minute all the time he has spent with his wife, and all of the mistakes and problems his wife has had with him. He has cell phone logs and text messages which corroborate this, as well as GPS locations.
4. I suspect that recently, while he's talking with his wife about how to amicably separate and take care of their child, his wife will physically attack him and he will call the police and show him the bruises.
I left the home because she kept asking me to stop sleeping in my own bed so her girlfriend could sleep there with her. I endured that for months. What else was I supposed to do? I’m not going to make the mistake of becoming physical, nor do I have the reactionary desire to.
I’m going to contact a lawyer today.
I know you're hurting. I've felt it. Sometimes it feels like the end of the world. But nothing happy will come from vilifying her or blaming her. She might feel like she had to look out for herself. It's the only life she'll ever get.
If she's truly polyamorous, then that means there is space for you too, you know. You just have to attract her.
But you should ask yourself if you really want that. She's a different person than the idea of her you're clinging to. Do you love her? Or are you afraid of being alone?
If you love her, and you want to pursue it, realize you might still lose her. But one chance is to wait for her to finish exploring whatever she wants to explore, and then see if she comes back. Keep in touch and try to talk about something real, something deep. Without arguing. Let her have a voice.
It's not enough to pay someone's bills. They're a person. And one step towards a healthy relationship is to shed the "if I do X for you, then you do Y for me" mindset. It's poisonous, at least in my own life. Maybe it's different for other people.
Best of luck. If you want to chat, shoot me an email.
Trust me. If she was just bills to me - I would have stopped paying a long time ago. We shared a deep deep connection. Why do you think I got married so young?
Do you think she'd be willing to go to couple's therapy? It's very expensive but it can be worth it.
If you're ever looking for someone to just listen, let me know.
I have been trying to get her into couples counseling or even just individual counseling for over a year. She just never makes it happen. I started counseling individually 2 months ago. She came to 1 session, I booked her a follow up, but she cancelled it. She has theoretically agreed to couple counseling in the past, but now couldn’t be bothered.
She thinks her IG friends are her counselors, starting the echo chamber cycle.
I made a few different calls this morning and setup an appointment with a lawyer later this week to sit down and get everything better sorted.
I started talking to a couple of my friends more about it and they have been surprisingly supportive of me, calling me, etc. Not feeling as alone as when I wake up at 3am and realize I'm all alone, which I'm not used to, but at least I know I'm sadly not alone in that boat and can relate to others.
Thanks again for reaching out. I'll shoot you an email.
Just try to remember, it's temporary.
My wife has a hole deep inside her from years of childhood abuse. She has no career, is early 20s like myself, and has yet to figure herself out.
As the months went by, she filled that hole more and more with her connections on IG and less with our family/relationship. Her follower count grew from a few hundred to 10,000. She started spending more and more time taking videos for her followers.
It got to the point where I would come home from work, ask how her day was, she’d say “fine.” And then about an hour later or later that night, there would be a multi paragraph long post of hers about her day. She put more effort into her relationship with IG than she did with us. It makes sense, I mean shit, every single post she would get hundreds of comments saying all sorts of nice things. I tried to keep up. But IG filled that hole in her heart much faster than I could.
Keep in mind we weren’t just some random marriage. We were best friends for a year before we even started dating.
She decided she is “pansexual” and “polyamorous” and no longer wanted to be “tied down”. She refused to leave me because I pay all the bills. So I suffered for a few months while she brought home different people. Eventually I got my own apartment and walked out.
Even though I technically walked out at the end, she left me mentally long ago. She now spends all her free time with her IG cliques instead of getting a job or going to school...or anything worthwhile really. Just more photoshoots. More posting. More spending.
She doesn’t have an remorse or regret to her. She thinks she is on the path to her greatness, blah blah blah, monogamy is ownership, all these things she just keeps repeating from memes she reads from “woke” accounts. Fake facts and stats from “sources” that are just anonymous accounts posting bullshit. Millenials (my generation) browse this shit, read it, and believe it without any doubt in their heads. Meanwhile I’m paying about ~$4k a month in just rent and car bills for her. Not including anything else.
OH and did I mention - the main girls she hangs out with from IG, 4 of them, are ALL going through divorces in the past two months. 4 of them. And they don’t see any connection between them. Either they are lying to my face and have some sort of secret pact going on to be single...or that’s some seriously strong groupthink right there.
Social media echo chambers are real.
Edit - I left out this private details because I originally deemed it unnecessary to share, but I think it might explain why I’m being so “nice”. She thinks she’s lesbian, or bi. She’s been bringing home women. She has a girlfriend now. If it was guys then yeah I think it would be easier to just be all pissed off. But the fact that it’s women, rational or not, for some reason makes it more confusing for me to deal with. Sorry for leaving this out.
Thank you for all the feedback and advice. All if it is extremely helpful.