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Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by kobeya on Friday November 17, 2017 @12:21AM (#15719171)
The general-purpose computer. It's a dinosaur on the verge of extinction at the hands of walled-garden app stores on phones and tablets. I never, ever expected that to happen.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by fsloth on Friday November 17, 2017 @01:44AM (#15719632)
Uh oh, I think I'm about to rant. Scuse me.

Given how cheap even powerful general purpose computers are I don't think they ever will be prized beyond availability. Aficionados, internet stores, arm, Linux, market forces, etc.

To some part, good riddance. Software engineers and product designers are the reason the PC is effectively broken by design in UX. Because they are inexcusably slow. There is 0 reason anything I want to do with e.g. office would not have 0 wait time except non-user centric design. My friggin circa 1984 Mac Plus felt faster on most stuff than the generic desktop PC.

The decade when Moores law gave freebies to software is probably one of the reasons for this astronomical sluggishness. Application feels slow? Well, just wait a year and get a new faster CPU. No need to spend resources on optimization.

I don't know who started with the idea that it's smarter to buy more hardware than to spend resources on programming but if I had to guess, it were the mainframe vendors. Cool for embarrassingly parallellizible batch processing jobs for massive bureaucracies, not so much for desktops.

And don't get me started on the idiocy of thinking it's fine software developers don't need to develop domain understanding in the field they operate.

With the general purpose computer desktop development, we have a system that's broken on so, so many levels.

At least Os X seems to try to do the right thing at an attempt at fluency and I can get a linux desktop to operate smoothly. Even windows 10 starts fast but O brother and sister of the clunkyness of software.

Despite what I said, I think the situation is improving. Immediacy in handheld devices puts pressure on the desktop to concentrate on not wasting the users time as well.

Let's see how it goes.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by baldfat on Friday November 17, 2017 @08:24AM (#15721746)
> My friggin circa 1984 Mac Plus felt faster on most stuff than the generic desktop PC

See how fast it felt.

https://youtu.be/XwbrCYJcrKQ?t=4m34s

No way and NO HOW! That statement is 100% false. The issue is you remember that it felt fast. My Amiga felt like lightening to me in 1985 and I still boot it up from time to time. The delays in everything is over the top and Mac 128k were horribly slow.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by fsloth on Friday November 17, 2017 @10:14AM (#15722565)
I meant the Macintosh Plus, not the Macintosh 128k. I was off by a few years, the Mac Plus came in 1986.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Plus

I think the example is a bit too sluggish but is probably a more correct presentation of the actual facts than my nostalgic outburst.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by baldfat on Friday November 17, 2017 @11:45AM (#15723552)
The delays of just writing a widow is so slow. Macintosh Plus Review https://youtu.be/_bI0moHdjPQ?t=22m29s

I was an Amiga kid. I had friends and co-workers who had Macintosh Plus and they always seemed to be so S-L-O-W to an Amiga.

Amiga 1000 from 1986 https://youtu.be/CDWdVk-hmgA?t=51s

The window draws were also slow BUT Ray Tracing and full animation compared to that lame Macintosh is just a whole different generation. Amiga lost and it took till 1994 or 1995 to beat an Amiga in 1986.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by Veedrac on Friday November 17, 2017 @02:18PM (#15725104)
That did not look any less responsive than doing the same on LibreOffice on my high-end gaming laptop, with an SSD, and in many cases it looked more so.

Of course, the newer one has newer graphics, but it also has enough transistors to replace each one in the 68k with a whole new 68k.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by fsloth on Friday November 17, 2017 @02:06PM (#15724994)
Oh gods, I was a kid in the 80:s and I was so envious of all my friends who had Amigas.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by bitwize on Friday November 17, 2017 @08:41AM (#15721854)
You're confusing throughput with latency. Those old systems were objectively more responsive because the keyboard and mouse were tied directly to high-priority IRQs which were serviced in the OS. Now we have USB keyboards and mice, which go on the same IRQ lines as every other USB device, and even if the OS could service them specially, it doesn't. So keyboard and mouse events go on a queue of things to do: disk accesses, network packets, etc. And the whole system feels slower because of the time lag between you sending a command to the machine via kb or mouse, and the machine actually receiving it.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by barbs on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:02AM (#15721987)
Oh come on, there's no way you can tell the difference in latency between a mouse of that era and a USB mouse today. Surely there's enough demand in the e-sports scene to lower input latency as much as possible?
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by teddyh on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:53AM (#15722351)
It’s not that mouse pointers today are normally laggy; they aren’t, as you correctly say. But when a modern system is very busy, it’s normal for the keyboard and mouse input to lag too, but that wasn’t normally the case with older systems, since human input peripherals were typically given their own special higher priority interrupts or whatever.

This was of course done because the systems back then were so slow that they would be in danger of regularly dropping key presses or clicks otherwise, which would have turned people off these newfangled electronic typewriters. But the result was that the interactive experience with respect to latency was given great importance in the design of those systems, unlike today, when it is taken for granted that people will accept whatever laggy system they are given, and will just be directed towards a CPU upgrade if they complain about it.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by baldfat on Friday November 17, 2017 @11:03AM (#15723074)
Anything that is above a netbook or a sub $500 laptop doesn't lag and today's computers and phone are spoiling us. I have a 8 year old netbook and I run a minimal Linux install with a tiled window manager and it is quick. I also have an i5 Sandy-bridge desktop and I also work with a tiled window manager because I prefer it, but my wife has Windows 10 on the same computer and it is spot on and that is 6 years old. My video work station is blazing fast and it never lags on anything except chugging through 4K/8K video renders.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by hyperpape on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:56AM (#15722378)
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by yangyang on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:56AM (#15722376)
I found this post about latency of input devices very interesting: https://danluu.com/keyboard-latency/
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by retrogradeorbit on Friday November 17, 2017 @11:31AM (#15723414)
Have you actually used a computer from that era for any significant amount of time?
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by bitwize on Friday November 17, 2017 @01:18PM (#15724498)
Yes, an Amiga. And it ALWAYS responded instantly to mouse input at least.

A Windows 3.1 PC from that era, not so much :)

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by hvidgaard on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:32AM (#15720223)
> My friggin circa 1984 Mac Plus felt faster on most stuff than the generic desktop PC

You do have some merit to the argument, but your 1984 Mac didn't have half as "pretty" UI, and that matters to some people. It didn't do dynamic language processing to figure out if you've made a grammatical error. It did not have to continuously scan every data stream for malware. It did not have to use a significantly restricted environment to limit damage when some malware did get through. It didn't even support multitasking. My point is that computers today do so much more, but responsive UI is entirely possible for desktop applications, but the development cost is more than most companies/people are willing to pay.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by fsloth on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:32AM (#15720506)
You are repeating the same excuses the industry has pilfered to us for decades.

"It didn't do dynamic language processing "

Which could very well do it's stuff in a different thread and execution context given the actual payload such a system needs to transfer from a wordprocessor is trivially small. Then notify user. Don't rob the system of its low latency just because you want to run the analysis in the same thread because it's "simpler". It's simpler only if low latency is not a fundamental requirement.

"It did not have to continuously scan every data stream for malware"

Which can be considered a one more defect of the system which I forgot to lambast. Sandbox my wordprocessor, let me operate in realtime in unsafe environment and once I'm moving something out of the sandbox, then do the analysis.

"your 1984 Mac didn't have half as "pretty" UI,"

This argument is moot. Pretty UI:s are computationally a tenth or hundredth of the complexity of an AAA title. Unless one does it wrong. And if the system does not provide enough horsepower, provide a backup! Reduce the computational load! Cut the transparencies, freeze the animations, etc.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by hvidgaard on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:47AM (#15720582)
> Which could very well do it's stuff in a different thread and execution context given the actual payload such a system needs to transfer from a wordprocessor is trivially small.

It's a blocking operation, so doing it in a different thread will not magically mean the requesting application can get it faster. Besides, this is already done in a different thread, but it increases the load of updating the UI.

> Which can be considered a one more defect of the system which I forgot to lambast. Sandbox my wordprocessor, let me operate in realtime in unsafe environment and once I'm moving something out of the sandbox, then do the analysis.

Which is already what is happening, but all data in and out needs to monitored. But regardless, it cannot operate in an unsafe unrestricted environment, because that implies full access to the memory.

> This argument is moot. Pretty UI:s are computationally a tenth or hundredth of the complexity of an AAA title. Unless one does it wrong. And if the system does not provide enough horsepower, provide a backup! Reduce the computational load! Cut the transparencies, freeze the animations, etc.

As I started to say, you have some merit to the argument, but I simply pointed out that modern UIs require multiple orders of magnitude more computational power to render. And providing a fallback is yet another cost of developing, and for the most part not something people/companies will pay for.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by secura on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:41AM (#15720255)
So why have a full pretty UI at the cost of latency?

If the latency begins to cross a threshold and begins to be inconvenient or distracting, it is time to step and think that may be the pretty UI is too ahead of its time, and we should stop making the UI prettier than it can be at this time.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by platinumrad on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:41AM (#15720556)
I think you greatly underestimate the number of non-technical people who care more about gee-whiz coolness than responsiveness. Back in the aqua era of OS X with the super sluggish genie effects and so on, the general public loved it and it was mostly "power users" and professionals who went into the settings to tone down the animations.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by dkersten on Friday November 17, 2017 @05:19AM (#15720733)
I dunno. Maybe initially, sure, but I've seen countless people use, for example, internet explorer where half the screen was taken up by malware toolbars (I wish I was exaggerating...), which is not pretty, not good UX, not gee-whiz coolness at all. And they never once complained, they just accepted it as the way it is and kept on going.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by TheOtherHobbes on Friday November 17, 2017 @06:09AM (#15720992)
And there’s the reason. Users are too forgiving and too passive, because the industry has trained everyone to have incredibly low expectations.

Developer and corporate status games select for political skill and self-indulgent overcomplexity, with added spice from dark patterns. There’s no reward for UI/UX/internal simplicity and elegance.

The culture at some companies would have been hugely improved with a few literal angry-users-with-pitchforks moments.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by hvidgaard on Friday November 17, 2017 @07:00AM (#15721289)
> There’s no reward for UI/UX/internal simplicity and elegance.

Then why do it? I like a good UX just as much as you, and I value simplicity, but people just want "good enough". And that is all there is to it.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:13AM (#15722073)
> I think you greatly underestimate the number of non-technical people who care more about gee-whiz coolness than responsiveness.

I think you've built a strawman. People who use computers to get shit done might pay lip service to things looking good, but at the end of the day they want a tool that does the job without a lot of bullshit. To the extent that the kind of person you're talking about exists, they are consumers who live in tablet land and should be ignored for desktop/workstation use cases.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by platinumrad on Friday November 17, 2017 @12:35PM (#15724042)
I completely ageee that they belong in tablet land but tablets did not exist in the mid 00s. All of my older relatives who now use iPads exclusively all used OS X back then for both ease of use and aesthetic reasons.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by kowdermeister on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:26AM (#15720475)
Because some people (including me) loves it. I don't care about a few extra ms for having an interface that's satisfying to watch / use for 12 hours per day.

I have to add that most computer I see of my friends are extremely snappy, I don't really see what you are talking about.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by arkh on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:10AM (#15720091)
> The decade when Moores law gave freebies to software is probably one of the reasons for this astronomical sluggishness. Application feels slow? Well, just wait a year and get a new faster CPU. No need to spend resources on optimization.

I'd like to see a word 1.0 coded with current tech stacks. Same functionalities. And see how fast it feels.

I think this feeling is a combination of a lot of things taken for granted and nostalgia.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by fsloth on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:24AM (#15720179)
"with current tech stacks"

Computers will behave sluggishly, unless care and dedication is paid they don't.

I'd start from a 3D engine, a font layout system, and the huge chunk of simple and efficient open source utility libraries that have sprung up. Or slap it on top of QT if that system can be made to behave non-sluggisly.

One point is, that you need to be able to access the low levels of the system. To understand it's limitations on your higher level architecture, and on the other hand, figure out what can be made blazing fast under which circumstances and use those as your bearings as you are developing the system. With usability, and understanding of end user being on the front seat. The whole time.

The point is, although the system does a great many things, there is no reason from the usability point of view those things are done in serial except legacy and poor design. A system can be made to feel immediate despite what it's doing under the skin. Delay those action, design the system with the user and her time as the first class citizen, rather than some other constraint.

Take a modern complex 3D AAA game. One of the root constraints is that it should never lag. Well, they do, obviously, but that is considered a defect more often than not.

And... Word... would need some deeper fixing on it's basic premises. As I recall I was pretty easy to break the Word 1.0 layout system in any number of ways.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by Cthulhu_ on Friday November 17, 2017 @07:03AM (#15721303)
I think a Word 1.0 with current tech would be awesome. Unfortunately, few parties seem interested in delivering fast applications anymore, instead focusing on cross-platform availability - you can't release a desktop app anymore without a mobile counterpart.

In theory things have gotten a lot faster, doubly so if you consider UI and logic can be distributed over multiple cores, and even moreso considering file access is a factor 10-100 faster than back then, and memory size has increased by over 9000.

But it'd be poor on features and nobody would want to use it because of Feature X. I had been looking for a lightweight Slack client alternative, but the only thing I could find looked like shit.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by 3chelon on Friday November 17, 2017 @12:06PM (#15723779)
>I don't know who started with the idea that it's smarter to buy more hardware than to spend resources on programming

It was the CFO's idea. Software is expensive, and hardware is _incredibly cheap_.

Moreover, if you're in the business of selling hardware, be it PCs, mobile phones, white goods, whatever, it is in your power to throw cheap hardware at the problem, because software development will always be one of your highest costs. You will never be able to just drop readymade code into your new hardware design. And you can more easily recoup the cost of hardware development because you can mark up the price of anything with a faster CPU or more memory accordingly; you can't so easily charge for software features.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by vortico on Friday November 17, 2017 @02:20AM (#15719836)
Eventually at some point, you have to get some work done, and you just can't do that with a tablet screen or a touch interface. The mouse and keyboard will reign, and even if the concept of a non-sanboxed system goes away, the future will still have hardware which look like desktop computers and laptops. The OS filesystem won't go away because applications on these personal computers need to be able to talk to each other somehow, and the current iOS method of "launch a file in this application from this other application" is too limiting. The only thing that will change is the application packaging, which will become optionally centralized and have permission levels just like Android apps. I think overall, future computers will be just as pleasant to use, just as programmable/configurable, and just as easy to download software from decentralized sources.

Just think, Chrome OS has essentially failed to take over the OS market, so I doubt anything using this overly-sandboxed model will be successful in the future.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by taneq on Friday November 17, 2017 @08:53AM (#15721927)
> Just think, Chrome OS has essentially failed to take over the OS market, so I doubt anything using this overly-sandboxed model will be successful in the future.

But that's the thing, there's no "os market" for appliances. ChromeOS won't 'take over' computing devices any more than toasters will take over your kitchen.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by closeparen on Friday November 17, 2017 @01:50AM (#15719680)
Did people really think the arms race of heuristic malware detection in bolt-on security software would be be sustainable?

Sandboxing applications and ending the free-for-all over the user’s entire file system were a long time coming. Then spammy software download websites and “Download Now” banner ads bigger than the official download buttons for popular software made it obvious that we needed a trustworthy distribution center. Of course someone starting an OS in the mid 2000s wasn’t going to adopt the Windows shareware distribution model.

The Linux distribution model of a vetted, quality controlled repository of software from a trusted middleman was so obviously superior, of course it won. I guess it’s surprising that iOS got so far with no escape hatch, but Android is the far more popular platform and has always let more technical users peek over the walls if they so desire.

I’m more surprised that so many people are content to type on glass. I was sure that the blackberry keyboard was the future.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by abecedarius on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:04AM (#15720066)
False dichotomy. A user-in-control sandboxing model is perfectly possible, e.g. https://sandstorm.io/

I agree that mainstream desktop OSes have failed to give us this yet. Fuchsia sounds like an opportunity to do better.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:23AM (#15722159)
Agreeing with you, mini rant time:

Why in the fuck do desktop computers have user-based permission models? Don't answer that, I know why, it's because they inherited them from the server-OS ancestors, but it's retarded. Desktops are personal computers, there is no reason to stop the user from doing what they want because it is their computer. Some might say, "oh, well, we can protect the system from malicious software by limiting user access to it" and they're correct, but who gives a shit? If my OS gets destroyed I'll reinstall it. It's a bit of a pain, but whatever. What's really important to me are my documents, my work, and the user-permission model does jack and shit for protecting those as the ransomware wave proved.

Application-oriented permissions are the obvious and correct way to do things in personal computing.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by christophilus on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:43PM (#15727513)
There are desktop computers which are in shared environments (computer labs, public libraries, kiosks, teller lines, etc). So user-based permission models make a lot of sense for desktops.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Saturday November 18, 2017 @12:39PM (#15729892)
Not really. There are better solutions than user permissions for those situations, we used them all the time in the 90s when multi-user didn't even exist in the Windows or Mac Desktop world.

Network resources, hosted on servers, need user permissions. Not desktops.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by jenscow on Friday November 17, 2017 @10:05PM (#15727572)
In those environments the same local user account is usually used. Or, a network account and in that case files are usually stored on a server.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by Mayzie on Friday November 17, 2017 @05:42AM (#15720861)
Thanks for sharing that link with me.

Never heard of Sandstorm before. That's a really impressive product. I'll definitely be using it in the future.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by throwanem on Friday November 17, 2017 @08:58AM (#15721962)
I'm not super a fan of typing on glass, especially when next-keystroke prediction is as poor as iOS has been lately managing. I am super a fan of having a device with the size of display that eliminating a physical input device achieves.

My old Palm TX did the same thing, showing the graffiti area when a text input had focus and otherwise giving applications the use of all but a status bar's worth of glorious 320x480 screen space. Granted that Palm OS did less to help applications really leverage the extra space than iOS does. But most of what I did on that device was reading anyway.

Of course, Graffiti via stylus suffers less from a soft UI than keyboard input via touch, so it's not quite apples to apples. Still, though, as annoying as a soft keyboard so frequently can be, I wouldn't give up half my phone's display for a hard one.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by michaelt on Friday November 17, 2017 @05:38AM (#15720836)

  Did people really think the arms race of heuristic
  malware detection in bolt-on security software would
  be be sustainable?
No, people thought user education and decreasing software bug counts would be sustainable.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by Silhouette on Friday November 17, 2017 @01:18AM (#15719480)
That's profoundly disappointing, I agree, but in a sense perhaps we geeks only have ourselves to blame. We didn't solve the basic (to any normal user) problems of ease of use and security, despite having decades to do so. We also didn't start routinely educating the next generation of kids in how useful and powerful programming skills are. Consequently, for many people personal computing has been reduced to little more than a mechanism for consuming online content and for relatively simple communications using a few trusted channels.

The one comfort is that someone still needs to be creating all that content and all those communications channels, and those people are always going to benefit from something much more capable than a small, lock-down touchscreen+WiFi device.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:26AM (#15722179)
>We didn't solve the basic (to any normal user) problems of ease of use and security

This user is a strawman. The problem we didn't solve was decoupling ourselves from corporations controlling our user experience, because we didn't create a good enough alternative for getting stuff done.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by kobeya on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:06AM (#15720079)
> The one comfort is that someone still needs to be creating all that content and all those communications channels, and those people are always going to benefit from something much more capable than a small, lock-down touchscreen+WiFi device.

Maybe. Let's see what the next generation of visual programming and IDE UX bring.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by pimmen on Friday November 17, 2017 @01:45AM (#15719633)
This really destroyed my day. I really have a big problem staying positive for at least a day now that you've eloquently expressed what I've had a creeping feeling of but just quite couldn't word in any discussion.

As computers become "locked app collections" they become appliances, appliances business and government institutions can control and regulate. "Can you make the iPad just not do that thing?"

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by swyx on Friday November 17, 2017 @02:50AM (#15719986)
ok honestly i dont understand this fear. isn't the open web the antithesis of the locked appstore?
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by jochung on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:31AM (#15722214)
The only way for the "open" web to evolve is for Google, Apple and Microsoft to agree on a feature, spec it out and roll it out to their different platforms. All anyone else can do is twiddle their thumbs hoping they don't fuck it up.

We sandboxed away innovation, so now all we have is web apps that process text, video and audio all in the same way.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by icebraining on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:59AM (#15720644)
For the point of the developer, maybe. From the point of the user, not really; at least for many of them I can disable updates and keep running them even if the company goes bankrupt. The ones that depend on cloud services are arguably the worst of both worlds, though.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by kelnos on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:24AM (#15720180)
Yes, but:

1) Some would say that the open web isn't so open anymore, and is under constant assault. One example might be the recent W3C adoption and endorsement of EME.

2) The fact that the open web "lost" in the battle for mobile dominance is a thing. Most "serious" apps have a native version on at least iOS and Android, and the webapp version (if there even is one) is usually a worse experience.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by jo909 on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:11AM (#15720405)
I would like to think the open web has not lost yet, and that progressive web apps still have a great chance of taking over. Nobody wants to develop apps for at least three platforms. Nobody wants half their user base use old versions. Nobody wants to fear being dropped from some walled garden without any recourse.

There are still good technical reasons for some native apps, but that will dwindle more and more.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by pjc50 on Friday November 17, 2017 @05:58AM (#15720946)
Not quite: the data is then locked away with the owner of the website, who can also surveil its usage and show you ads. Or ban you.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by kobeya on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:10AM (#15720097)
Sorry :(
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by swyx on Friday November 17, 2017 @02:52AM (#15719995)
as a web developer i am bemused at every other comment on here that seems to agree with your sentiment that the world is walling up. yes, app stores will be a control mechanism for ever and consumers may not understand what they are opting into. but equally the open web will never go away and that's what general purpose computation has shifted to, thats basically all we've done this century. am i misunderstanding what you mean by general purpose computer?
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by chubot on Friday November 17, 2017 @02:56AM (#15720020)
Can a program written for the web access all the great sensors on your Android or iPhone? Can it access new movies and TV shows?

The web is a big success story, but it's not all there is in computing.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by kobeya on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:05AM (#15720075)
I hate the browser as a platform, but the answers to your questions are yes, and yes.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by chubot on Friday November 17, 2017 @11:44AM (#15723539)
The web can't access all the sensors on your phone -- at least not in their full glory. It might have trivial APIs like "take a picture", but it can't do anything specific to a piece of hardware, by definition. It can't control the camera's imaging pipeline (lighting, focus, preprocessing, etc.).

As a shortcut to understanding this, consider what hardware support something like ARKit [1] needs. Or consider whether you could write a multitrack audio recorder as a web app (no, because the web audio APIs aren't multitrack).

My point is that you need "general purpose computing" that is not the web for many things. The web is indeed open, but we also need our general purpose computers to be open. Android is better than nothing, but it's arguably not as open as a PC running Linux.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/arkit/about_augmen...

The answer to the second question is also no.

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by rimliu on Saturday November 18, 2017 @10:45AM (#15729386)
Amusing, how people fear monoculture on one hand, but a longing to have everyting as the web app on the other. For what is worth it is good web apps cannot access everything.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by zerostar07 on Friday November 17, 2017 @05:47AM (#15720885)
I think it can , but if your website needs to use these things, then it essentially locks itself in the "app garden" we 're talking about escaping from.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by zerostar07 on Friday November 17, 2017 @05:49AM (#15720894)
It all started with laptops. Wish we could do something to the direction of personal, components-based workstations. Gaming does that.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by amelius on Friday November 17, 2017 @05:15AM (#15720717)
Yes, the only direction seems to be that of closed systems. Smartphones will probably never be as open as desktop systems once were.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by fosco on Friday November 17, 2017 @01:28PM (#15724612)
I have overwhelmingly big hopes for postmarketOS [0] and Debian Mobile [1]

[0] https://postmarketos.org/

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile

Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by amelius on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:20PM (#15726058)
Do they run Android apps? I'm asking because for banking, I really need to run such app.
Re:Ask HN: What tech were you convinced would take the world... by gilbetron on Friday November 17, 2017 @10:33AM (#15722729)
Huh? I'm not following. Do you just mean desktops?