News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by 0xbear on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @01:44AM (#14794446)
Non-GMO and organic is mostly BS of course, but it's a fact that refined carbs are cheap and plentiful, so the poor consume proportionally more of them. They simply can't afford fruit and meat. This is in part because of the infinite shelf life of processed carbs, and in part because they're heavily subsidized by the government. Also, government dietary guidelines still push people towards relatively high carb diets, and snacking is encouraged from kindergarten and up, causing insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes. The point being, the nutritional situation in the US is a clusterfuck, and GMO and organic stuff are kind of orthogonal to rectifying it.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by skrebbel on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:11AM (#14794548)
> They simply can't afford fruit and meat.

Maybe this differs per area, but in most places i know, fruit is significantly cheaper than processed snacks. I can eat 4 apples for the price of one Mars bar.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by TeMPOraL on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:16AM (#14794568)
I've been hearing similar things for a time now, like e.g. poor people eating at McD because it's cheaper to get a caloric and macronutrient-full meal there than to assemble it from fruits and stuffs.

This disagrees with my daily experience in Europe, so I conclude it's a US-specific thing.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by Swizec on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @04:13AM (#14795031)
> This disagrees with my daily experience in Europe, so I conclude it's a US-specific thing.

It is. Having lived in both places, it's astounding how expensive good food is in the US and how cheap crap food can be. $1 for a single apple or for a McD burger? Tough choice.

Add to that the fact that most of the US poor are time poor as well. Working 3 jobs and/ot commuting 3hrs per day doesn't leave a lot of time to prepare meals.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by AjithAntony on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @04:23AM (#14795073)
Agreed. In my midwest small town, the $1 apple isn't even the good apples. Bananas are preposterously cheap though. I'd still rather east two double cheeseburgers or two breakfast burritos than 5-6 bananas.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by Swizec on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @05:25AM (#14795282)
> I'd still rather east two double cheeseburgers or two breakfast burritos than 5-6 bananas.

Probably healthier to eat two double cheeseburgers than 5-6 bananas too. Bananas are really really really packed with sugar.

14 grams per 100 calories (banana) versus 7 grams per 440 calories (McDonalds double cheeseburger).

Now whether it's healthy to eat 800 calories for breakfast ... eh, probably not. But that's a different problem. Also depends on what you intend to do all day. Physical labor? Eat away. Sit at desk? Maybe try a quarter of a double cheeseburger instead :D

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by brucephillips on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @06:08AM (#14795422)
A double cheeseburger may have only 7 grams of "sugar", which is defined by the FDA as a mono- or di-saccharide, but it has 29 grams of carbs, most of which is white flour, which is almost as unhealthy as sugar.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by Swizec on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @11:53AM (#14797508)
A single banana has 27 grams of carbs. Most of which is pure sugar.

So I dunno. Bananas are not the best example, great after and pre workout, not thaaaat great as something you'd eat all the time.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by vorotato on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @09:31AM (#14796350)
It's affected by what foods get agricultural subsidies and which ones don't.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by 0xbear on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:39AM (#14794663)
It's also much less calorically dense. It's not just snacks though. It's also nearly anything you can buy in a store that's made of wheat or corn. Whole aisles of stuff, packed floor to ceiling. People keep eating it between meals, and they get fat.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by dragonwriter on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:55AM (#14794730)
> Maybe this differs per area, but AFAICT in most places i know, fruit is significantly cheaper than processed snacks

Fruit is bulkier and spoils faster, this means it takes more storage space and more frequent shopping trips (and/or more refrigerated space.) These have costs.

Further—for basically the same reasons—the corner convenience store that will carry processed snacks often won't carry much, if any, fresh fruit, meaning it takes many who are poor longer shopping trips, as well.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by usaphp on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:08AM (#14794529)
> snacking is encouraged from kindergarten and up, causing insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes.

It's not snacking that is causing insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes. Snacking is good if you eat healthy snacks.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by deepGem on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:22AM (#14794589)
They simply can't afford fruit and meat.

I'm not sure about meat but fruit is definitely affordable. Especially bananas and apples. Bananas are far cheaper than any other food. Yet, people snack on chips/crisps and other refined carbs.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by ouid on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:39AM (#14794661)
are you considering caloric efficiency?

I love this list, but I doubt it's accurate to more than an factor of 2. http://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/

Bananas are not a cost effective source of calories, have very little protein, and boast a fairly high glycemic index.

basically, bananas are trash at being fruit.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by Johnny_Brahms on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @03:51AM (#14794951)
First of all, this is discussion about people eating too many calories from bad food. Bananas probably beat most of the snacks otherwise discussed.

And protein deficiency? A 70kg male needs something like 55g of protein (WHO figures) unless they exercise. You are not going to go below that unless you fill a substantial chunk of your calorie intake by eating pure fat.

I eat a plant based diet and weigh about 67kg. On 2500kcal I get about 95-110g of protein, and that is without trying. Had I been a meat/milk eater, this number would have been higher.

Protein intake is generally a problems if you are either starving or very serious about building LOTS ofta muscle.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by deepGem on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @03:21AM (#14794831)
Valid. Bananas are however very high in potassium, moderately high in Magnesium and dietary fiber.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by siquick on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:20AM (#14794584)
>Non-GMO and organic is mostly BS of course<

Can you expand on this?

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by fratlas on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @01:49AM (#14794462)
snacking is bad? I thought it was good for your metabolism.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by ky738 on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:01AM (#14794492)
Look up intermittent fasting
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by azureel on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @01:53AM (#14794471)
If you mean nut, walnut, or apricot as snack: it's good. But Snickers is definitely not.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by edejong on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:01AM (#14794493)
What makes the fructose in your (selected for top sweetness over hundreds of generations) apricot so different from the fructose in the sucrose of your Snickers bar?
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by dragonwriter on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:41AM (#14794670)
> What makes the fructose in your (selected for top sweetness over hundreds of generations) apricot so different from the fructose in the sucrose of your Snickers bar?

The quantity of it per unit volume or mass of the apricot, which affects satiety and the total quantity you are likely to eat of it, as well as other ingredients consumed alongside the sugars. For instance, a 44g snickers bar has 20g of sugars and 0.8g fiber; 165g of sliced apricot has only 15g of sugars and 3.3g of fiber; so less than a quarter of the sugar density by mass, with in the ballpark of the same fiber density, or about a four times higher fiber-to-sugar ratio for the apricot.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by lgas on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:07AM (#14794525)
In addition to what others have said, I suspect part of the difference is that "all things being equal" the snickers bar and apricot may not be so far apart, but in real life "all things are not equal" and the person that eats a snicker instead of an apricot statistically makes many more decisions in a similar vein.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by edejong on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:30AM (#14794622)
Aha, that's an interesting position and one I completely agree with. It points to the core of the matter:

It lifts the individual food-items towards a more socioeconomic, structuralistic philosophy of society. Eating the Snickers bar is communicating "I do not care about my food-choices". It is about carelessness and sloth, a stigmatic act.

And even though there is a kernel of truth in your argument, it introduces more dogma into the whole food situation.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by minwcnt5 on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:06AM (#14794517)
The fiber and polyphenols in the whole fruit modulate the uptake of fructose in the gut.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by edejong on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:09AM (#14794539)
Except that it has been selected over centuries for minimal fiber content.

Quick Google search: apricots and Snickers both have 2% fiber content.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by brucephillips on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:35AM (#14794643)
That's by weight, and apricots are mostly water. By macronutrient content, apricots are about 15% fiber.

What ultimately matters is the glycemic index. An apricot has a GI of 34, whereas a Snickers bar is ~70.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by edejong on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:53AM (#14794724)
The point I was trying to make is that apricots and Snickers have both been engineered (both by humans and nature) to contain maximum sugar levels with minimum fiber content (plus to be grown as quickly as possible). There are other fruits which have a higher GI level (grapes). We need to step away from the food dogmas and understand that an apricot is heavy in fructose, low in glucose, doesn't have many good lipids and because of intense farming probably does not have much iron and magnesium. It is probably better than a Snickers bar, but that doesn't suddenly make it 'good', or 'clean', or whatever.

(Just for the record, I never eat snacks like Snickers, haven't been to a McDonalds for over a decade, grow my own food, regularly eat nuts and work out thrice a week. I focus on balance in my food, with the right intake at the right moment. So, eating sugar isn't that bad, but your body needs to be able to use that energy directly.)

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by thrownblown on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:30AM (#14794619)
Try eating 2500 calories (1 pack) of Oreos vs 2500 calories of apricots (150 medium).

I could easily mow down a whole pack of oreos and a quart of milk (500 more calories). I have done so many times. I might do it tonight. I dunno about 150-180 apricots. That is only 200% of daily recommended fiber intake tho.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by azinman2 on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:30AM (#14794620)
Snickers will contain high fructose corn syrup with different metabolism properties, and will likely contain more total sugar (plus other gunk) than the equivalent snack of (non-dried) apricots would.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by 0xbear on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @03:16AM (#14794814)
Fun fact: HFCS that you'll find in drinks has nearly the same proportion of fructose and glucose as honey. Yet one is considered "good" by most people, and the other is universally considered bad. News flash: they're both bad unless consumed in very limited amounts.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by partycoder on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:06AM (#14794522)
They have different glycemic indices. A bar of snickers or similar will likely have a higher glycemic index relative to that of a fruit, meaning that it has a higher impact on the blood glucose.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by Noxchi on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:05AM (#14794512)
The difference has more to do with fiber, fats, and vitamin s
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by edejong on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:12AM (#14794551)
Vitamin S? You mean steroids?

It's very difficult for a person eating normally to not get enough of their daily vitamin intake, so please specify the type.

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by brucephillips on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:30AM (#14794617)
Not really. Most Americans are Vitamin D deficient, and about half are Magnesium deficient.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by ChristianGeek on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:12AM (#14794549)
Snickers never seem to satisfy me anyway.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by sgift on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:09AM (#14794535)
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by majkinetor on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:23AM (#14794591)
Context really matters. With acid reflux, snacking is good.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by sgift on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:26AM (#14794609)
Context always matters, but the question was about metabolism. Acid reflux is a completely different matter.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by Toine on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:26AM (#14794611)
"Non-GMO and organic is mostly BS of course"

Sources ? I got hundreds of studies proving the exact opposite if you want

Re:Eating Clean is Useless by kirrent on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:33AM (#14794633)
Hey, if you've got hundreds of studies why don't you start? Give us your favourites.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by Toine on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:46AM (#14794689)
Hundreds of thousands.
Re:Eating Clean is Useless by kirrent on Tuesday July 18, 2017 @02:58AM (#14794738)
Good to hear. Just the top few will do.