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Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by tambourine_man on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:22AM (#14410654)
Probably true, and I'm so glad we have Apple in this industry. Otherwise everything would be optimized for ease of development instead of the end user experience.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by ashark on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:50AM (#14410910)
Exactly my first thought on reading the headline. "Oh, really? Then thanks for prioritizing my battery life and general UX over cheaper app development, Apple!"
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by mitchty on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:19PM (#14411147)
Exactly. I remember hearing "eight megs and constantly swapping" as a joke, I think for anything javascript app related I can now say: 8 watts and constantly increasing

The amount of energy javascript pages now take makes me in some ways wish we had the ease of blocking crap like flash back in the day to not make my fans spin.

Also a webpage or app taking up 900MiB of memory? Really, this is what I want? Hell no, i'll stick to what I have thank you very much.

Certain web developers are an interesting breed of late.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by thehardsphere on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:51PM (#14411430)
>Certain web developers are an interesting breed of late.

We live in an age of unparalleled abundance. "Evolution" no longer selects as aggressively against devs who are inefficient.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by wolfgke on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @07:29PM (#14414256)
> "Evolution" no longer selects as aggressively against devs who are inefficient.

It still does - but now efficiency is measured in development/maintenance time.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by chrisper on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:29AM (#14410716)
Electron phone apps everywhere. That would be horrible.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by ex3ndr on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:56AM (#14410949)
To be honest React Native is Electron for mobile. On Android it starts custom Chrome engine in it.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eropple on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:05PM (#14411037)
I don't believe that this is accurate. It starts a V8 engine, not a Chrome engine, and renders (on the standard framework UI loop) using--as one would expect--native controls.

If you want to use a WebView, you must invoke a WebView.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by cobar on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:51PM (#14411424)
They actually ported JavascriptCore over to Android. The only time it uses V8 is if you run the code through the Chrome Debugger. Not sure what the benefit was perhaps performance or lower disk usage.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eropple on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @01:02PM (#14411513)
Ah, TIL - I pretty much always have the Chrome debugger attached, so that's interesting. :)
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by amelius on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:39PM (#14411305)
> It starts a V8 engine, not a Chrome engine

And that V8 engine contains functionality which is surprisingly similar to Chrome.

Except they decided to reinvent the wheel.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eropple on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @01:03PM (#14411531)
I don't know if you're aware, but Chrome uses V8 to provide that functionality. Perhaps this is a Chesterton's Fence situation you should think about a bit?

(Though, as the sibling comment notes, it uses JavaScriptCore, which is Webkit's JavaScript engine, not V8 at all.)

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by amelius on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @04:05PM (#14413014)
Sorry, I'm fully aware of what V8 is (I actually embedded V8 once myself). By "V8 engine", I meant an engine containing V8, among other things such as a renderer. Bad wording, my mistake.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eropple on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @04:38PM (#14413259)
React Native doesn't contain a renderer in the Chrome-y sense of the term, to the best of my knowledge. It wraps native APIs instead. Am I missing something?
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by amelius on Thursday May 25, 2017 @06:41AM (#14416454)
Well, eventually Chrome also calls native APIs to perform the rendering.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eropple on Thursday May 25, 2017 @12:50PM (#14418457)
You're stretching. Chrome calls native APIs to render a rasterized view. React Native calls native APIs to render native widgets in a native window, i.e. an Android activity.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by flai on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:50PM (#14411421)
You are aware that chrome uses V8, not the other way around?
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by ashark on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:00PM (#14410989)
That might explain how they got around the horror that is trying have have complex, flexible styling across several major Android versions without every single thing you do being entirely broken on one or another. I'd wondered why the various things I'd tried kept actually working. That'd do it.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by htormey on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:03PM (#14412568)
Nope. React native doesn't use webviews to render its ui. Business logic and view configuration are in JavaScript but all rendering and event processing is done in native. Also it's easy to wrap native components and insert them, something you just can't do in a webview.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by ElijahLynn on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:38PM (#14411300)
Apple is hampering web apps. I am so not glad we have Apple in the industry slowing things down. They didn't mention anything web related at the last WWDC. The web is the future, not their little sandboxed world.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eridius on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:38PM (#14412833)
Why are you expect Apple to announce web-related stuff at WWDC? Besides the fact that the web isn't really what WWDC attendees care about, WebKit is also open source and you can watch development happening. Yes, sometimes Apple does work on a big thing that doesn't actually land on the open source project until they announce it, but that's usually when it's being done to support some other hardware or OS feature that they haven't announced yet.

If you want to see what's going on in WebKit, just check out https://webkit.org. A simple way to follow along is to read the "What's New In Safari Technology Preview ##" blog posts (and install the Safari Technology Preview to actually try this stuff out).

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by ElijahLynn on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @04:53PM (#14413373)
Because they used to announce web-related things at WWDC. e.g. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2013/601/
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eridius on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @05:01PM (#14413436)
Yeah, and last year they had a session called Extending your App with Safari App Extensions (https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/214/), as well as Apple Pay on the Web (https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/703/). So they still do have the occasional web-related session. But for the most part there's not much need to be talking about web stuff at WWDC, because most development of the web stuff happens in the open already throughout the entire year, and WWDC isn't being attended by web developers anyway, it's being attended by app developers.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by ElijahLynn on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @05:41PM (#14413688)
I remember when they announced multipath TCP during WWDC. It sounds like you are saying that WWDC is only for app developers and they just don't have a conference for web developers. I thought they cared about the web, they used to.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eridius on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @09:30PM (#14414723)
There's a bazillion difference conferences for web developers. Why do you want WWDC to be one too?
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by jasonkostempski on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:34AM (#14410765)
But the end user experience is still shit on iOS, it's just a more specialized kind of shit, delivered through a fancy sphincter.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by fredsir on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:41AM (#14410826)
How is it shit?

There's always room for improvement, but it's not shit if you ask me. In my opinion it's the best mobile OS we've got.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by jasonkostempski on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:18PM (#14411140)
Walled garden, monopolistic practices, favoritism, planned obsolescence. None of these things are a net gain for the end user. They do it better than anyone else, but it's still the same shit.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by scarface74 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:24PM (#14411175)
"planned obsolescence"?

The latest version of iOS runs on all iOS devices back to the iPhone 5 -- introduced in 2012. How many Android phones still get updates from their manufacturer 5 years later? When Apple releases a security patch, it's available from day one to all users worldwide over the air. Can you say the same for Android?

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:23PM (#14412727)
> The latest version of iOS runs on all iOS devices back to the iPhone 5

Have new iOS versions stopped getting aggressively slower on old devices yet? Technically running but in a broken way doesn't stop it being planned obsolescence. If that did change then great, more people should be made aware.

> Can you say the same for Android?

This is about iOS's faults, not Android's.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eridius on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:41PM (#14412861)
Apple does a crazy amount of work to keep iOS running on as many devices as they can. Speaking as a developer, I wish they'd be more aggressive about dropping support for older devices.

But even if the new OS runs slower on old devices, that's not even remotely Planned Obsolescence. Planned Obsolescence means they deliberately make older devices run badly in order to drive upgrades. But there's not even a snowflake's chance in hell that Apple is doing that, and saying they are is pretty insulting to all the work they do ensuring the OS is at least usable on those devices. The simple fact is, as devices get more powerful, the OS expands to take advantage of that power, and so when you run the OS on older hardware it's now doing more work than it used to and frequently ends up slower.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by jasonkostempski on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:57PM (#14412956)
Non-replaceable battery, no external storage. No, modern Android devices aren't generally any better, they are also part of shit show.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by sqeaky on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @01:20PM (#14411679)
I hold no opinion on "planned obsolescence", rather I want to separate OS from vendors. Vendor support is not a feature of the software it is a feature of the Vendor.

Android is open for anyone to do anything with, and there is no way to force someone to support something after they release it any more than it is possible to get them to not use Android in the first place.

If we look at Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc... independently as companies I am sure some have crappy upgrade policies and some have great policies. If you want shop around for it, look at reviews for other phones.

If you don't want it, like if you are planning on installing your own OS or have other plans for the hardware then this is misfeature. It becomes a thing you have paid for but will never use.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by khedoros1 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @02:51PM (#14412460)
> Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc... independently as companies I am sure some have crappy upgrade policies and some have great policies.

Well...yes. Great upgrade policies: Apple. Crappy upgrade policies: Samsung, LG, HTC, etc.

Let's look at the flagships:

Apple: iPhone 5 from 2012 supports their newest OS release.

Samsung: Galaxy S3 from 2012 supports Android 4.3 and 4.4 (depending on model). Those are 2012 and 2013 OSes.

HTC: One X from 2012 supports up to Android 4.2.2.

LG: Optimus G from 2012 supports up to Android 4.4.2.

Google itself: Nexus 4 from late 2012 supports up to Android 5.1.1. A maintenance release from last year, with a base OS release 2.5 years ago...but certainly better than other Android vendors.

Android itself is still being updated as far back as 4.4.x, but that doesn't help much when the vendors aren't picking up the updates (and installing LineageOS tends to lose access to some of the features I paid for).

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by sqeaky on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:13PM (#14412658)
I have been using cyanogenmod and lineageOS, and the updates just worked. So I wasn't aware so many of the big names refused to ship updates.

Do any android handset manufacturers ship updates?

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by khedoros1 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:41PM (#14412860)
Most of them do, but usually only for a year or two after the release of a particular handset, and more for their flagship models than their more obscure ones. In most cases, those updates include a single major OS version jump, and maybe a year or two of security patches after that point.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by scarface74 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @02:28PM (#14412279)
Vendor support is not a feature of the software it is a feature of the Vendor.

Whether I buy a computer from Dell, HP, Lenovo or any other PC vendor, I still can get upgrades and security patches from Microsoft. I don't have to wait on the vendor for updates.

we look at Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc... independently as companies I am sure some have crappy upgrade policies and some have great policies. If you want shop around for it, look at reviews for other phones.

Tell me one Android vendor who supports their phone with security patches for five years?

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by sqeaky on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:11PM (#14412638)
Windows is also locked down so that Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc... cannot make arbitrary changes to it. If they could they would like break the update mechanism.

I have seen plenty of preinstalled crapware from all those companies that never gets updated.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by scarface74 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:43PM (#14412870)
And the difference being that you can update the OS despite the crapware. You can't update Android devices without waiting on the vendor.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by sqeaky on Thursday May 25, 2017 @09:38AM (#14417178)
And you can install your own Android based OS which gets updates.

All I am trying to say is that android, the OS is not the reason updates don't happen. The Vendor is and largely your point point agrees with me.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by scarface74 on Saturday May 27, 2017 @03:01PM (#14431402)
You can install your own Android base on the majority of Android phones? Including full support for Google Play Services? What about all of the chipsets that only come with binary blobs that the manufacturer has stopped supporting?

Are you really comparing the ease of clicking one button to upgrade Windows or iOS devices with using some semi supported "Android" OS that may or may not be supported for your phone?

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by pjmlp on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:30PM (#14411226)
If only my Android devices could have half of the planned obsolescence of iOS devices....
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by kavok on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @12:05PM (#14411038)
I converted from Android to iOS after using Android for years. The experience is better or identical to Android in all cases.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by matwood on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:01PM (#14412555)
I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again. I was an iOS user from day 1. Switched to Android when Apple refused to release a large screen device. I used multiple Androids over 2 years (HTCs, Nexus devices), and while I could do some geeky things with them they all had issues. Battery life was terrible. My Nexus 5 would randomly have a Google process spin out of control and kill the batter in 5 minutes. Updates tended to make the device not work as well (my Nexus 7 sits in a drawer after becoming unusable from updates).

I finally switched back to an iPhone, and realized how silly I was trying to convince my iPhone using friends to switch to Android. It just works. My friends don't care about kernels or custom ROMs. They want an OS that works, is secure, and stays updated. iOS does that. Apple will have to really mess things up for me to leave iOS at this point. For something I interact with on a daily basis, I don't have the time or the patience to deal with Android.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by khedoros1 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @03:15PM (#14412671)
I like iOS itself (I have an iPhone 6 through work). I'd feel smothered using it as a personal device, though. Off the top of my head: it doesn't give me direct access to my on-device files, allow external storage, provide a relatively-unrestricted MTP share when plugged in, allow external app stores, or let me run a server (I sometimes run sshd for wireless file transfers, or an SMS proxy to send and receive SMS from my PC).

The things that iOS does, it arguably does better than Android. The things it doesn't do are what have kept me away.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by kavok on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @05:00PM (#14413426)
I will admit that the lack of file system access was a bit difficult to get over when coming from Android - but it comes up rarely and is easy to work around (store the files on something else icloud dropbox etc..).

External storage seems to be pretty rare on Android though?

My #1 complaint about iOS is that they don't really allow other browsers.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by khedoros1 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @06:33PM (#14413982)
> External storage seems to be pretty rare on Android though?

Not too rare. Google doesn't like it, so their stuff usually doesn't have it, but Samsung, HTC, and LG seem to have it in most of their flagships, anyhow. Maybe a generation skipped, here or there. It's not guaranteed, but not rare. I checked some budget phones from Blu, for the other end of the price spectrum. Some of those have microSD slots, too.

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by eecc on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:40AM (#14410819)
Please elaborate... I've been on iOS since the iPhone4 and didn't notice the smell
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by coldtea on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:49AM (#14410905)
Shit compared to what?

People really have no context...

Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by zepto on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @01:39PM (#14411849)
A naïve utopia that we are being held back from by corporate greed.
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by tambourine_man on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:54AM (#14410939)
I was afraid to ask that same question, given the colorful metaphor provided
Re:If It Weren’t for Apple, Hybrid App Development Would Be ... by jasonkostempski on Thursday May 25, 2017 @12:33AM (#14415307)
True, nothing much better exists yet in the mobile space.