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Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by alphonsegaston on Thursday March 02, 2017 @10:25AM (#13774649)
I'm really hoping that Zelda/Switch are successful enough to push game aesthetics in a better direction. This headlong plunge into the uncanny valley is just gonna lead us to the same dead end that art found itself at the end of the 19th century. No one cares about the bad aesthetics of Orientalist painting any more, and this era of hyperreal titilation is gonna meet the same fate in retrospect.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by _ph_ on Thursday March 02, 2017 @10:55AM (#13774966)
As I have grown up with all kinds of animated cartoons on the TV, I always wanted a computer game which sported that level of graphics. It turns out, that from the raw hardware capability, computers long ago exceeded this ability, yet there is a big scarcity of real animated games. Windwaker (HD) is a really nice exception from that. It looks like an animate comic movie. From this point of view, I am actually happy that Nintendo did not try to make the next best rendering machine, and I hope that the games do benefit from that in an aesthetically sense. Of course I would not mind if Zelda ran at 60FPS, but the visuals look just great.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by jly on Thursday March 02, 2017 @12:02PM (#13775761)
Windwaker at 720p is still one of the most amazing looking games I've ever played. Nintendo has always had this right, with a priority on style and look rather than pushing maximum polygons. They know how to make good games that look great and that's always been more important than the underlying hardware power.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by alphonsegaston on Thursday March 02, 2017 @11:01AM (#13775048)
I think all kids growing up in this period had fantasies about games matching up with their imaginations of them through some technical revolution.

What modern game dev misses is that it's the space to imagine things within a more abstract visual framework that creates that sense of wonder and possibility. Game aesthetics have to have "space" for their players' imaginations to fill in order to have the same impact as those from earlier eras.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by munificent on Thursday March 02, 2017 @12:52PM (#13776337)
This is exactly why Minecraft is one of my favorite games ever.

Yesterday, my daughter made a pool out of sea lanterns because they look kind of like pool tiles. Would she have thought to do that if the art for sea lanterns was more precise? Probably not.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by nihonde on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:37AM (#13783534)
I still have fond memories of Jet Set Radio on Dreamcast because it captured that cell rendered feel so beautifully.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by michaelbuddy on Saturday March 04, 2017 @08:10PM (#13794000)
Lots of cell shaded games. Attack on Titan is pretty awesome for looking like the actual show while playing. Japanese games are huge with this. There's a big push for non photo realistic rendering 3D now in Blender, we're going to see more of this direction in big budget and indie games. The world is still waiting on the release of cuphead, although a little different than NPR 3D.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by nubbins on Friday March 03, 2017 @01:12AM (#13781087)
Agreed but it was easier when games naturally had "space" for imagination because of technical limitations. It is really hard to self-consciously go back and work inside a self imposed frame when everything else is moving ahead.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by joshschreuder on Thursday March 02, 2017 @06:06PM (#13779199)
Wind Waker is a phenomenally designed game, sadly rejected by a lot of people around its release due to the Spaceworld demo in 2000 [1] that left people clamouring for a 'realistic' looking Zelda title. Thankfully over time it has become regarded as one of the best Zelda titles.

I think its graphic style will continue to hold up far better than some of the other titles well into the future. The fact that we can look back at the Spaceworld demo and laugh at how dated it looks is proof enough.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvE3yJv3fm0

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by ktRolster on Thursday March 02, 2017 @08:56PM (#13780153)
I think people rejected it because spending so much time sailing over empty water gets tiring.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by esistgut on Thursday March 02, 2017 @09:12PM (#13780230)
Get the HD version for Wii U, it has a feature to boost the boat.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by joshschreuder on Thursday March 02, 2017 @09:23PM (#13780279)
Valid point, it's definitely not without its flaws. It's still one of my favourite Zelda games though.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by simonh on Thursday March 02, 2017 @12:23PM (#13775983)
With Switch they've not only avoided enslaving themselves to the biggest/best bandwagon, but actually used the fact that their hardware is relatively modest to enable them to do things XBox and PS4 can't. Their ARM silicon is more heavily optimized for games than most tablet CPUs, but still enables them to offer an easily portable package.

My iPad is an awesome games platform but we're not going to see a game like LoZ:BotW on it for many years to come (but check out Oceanhorn). It offers great gaming, but in smaller bite sized morsels. My last console was a Wii and I can easily see myself getting a Switch mainly just for Zelda, MarioKart and hopefully a new Endless Ocean.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by tiglionabbit on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:28PM (#13778874)
There are quite a few good games on iOS these days. The main problem with iOS for gaming is the lack of physical buttons, but some games make up for that with good touch controls.

Here are a few multi-platform games I've been playing on iOS lately that have worked very well:

* Severed

* The World Ends With You: Solo Remix

* Final Fantasy 9

* Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by alikoneko on Friday March 03, 2017 @01:44PM (#13785069)
How does TWEWY: Solo Remix work? I have the DS game and it seemed pretty heavy on your partner also doing the thing. That being said, TWEWY:SR is one of the reasons I wish I had an iPhone or iPad. I loved the game, and wish so hard for a sequel. It was one of Squeenix's best games in aesthetic, sound, and story.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by tiglionabbit on Saturday March 04, 2017 @05:42PM (#13793306)
I never played the original, but I can describe how this one plays. You touch to move Neku around during exploration and your partner usually follows unless they're running off for plot reasons. During combat you can tap enemies to make Shiki attack them, or swipe downward to make Joshua attack them, etc -- each partner seems to have a different gesture, and if that gesture matches one of your pin's gestures you'll end up doing both attacks at once, which helps build sync. During the golden bat boss battle the screen would scroll upward to Shiki when you had to uncover the lights.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by simonh on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:39PM (#13778967)
The Grand a Theft Auto series, 3 through San Andreas as well. So much fun and the touch controls are excellent. The gunplay is crap, but that doesn't really matter in GTA; it killed MaxPayne for me though, can't stand shooters that rely on auto-aim.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by photojosh on Thursday March 02, 2017 @08:04PM (#13779914)
I play the GTA series with a MFi game pad that has a holder for my iPhone. Is awesome.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by crgt on Thursday March 02, 2017 @08:08PM (#13779934)
If you like FF9, you may like FF BraveExvius too; it's also cross-platform and has a healthy user base.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by vvanders on Thursday March 02, 2017 @12:32PM (#13776112)
Yup, it's a smart pivot. Feels very similar to the issues that OEMs face under price pressure. Nintendo has always had a very strong portable showing and I think this will play to their strengths quite well.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by kibwen on Thursday March 02, 2017 @04:46PM (#13778542)
> I always wanted a computer game which sported that level of graphics

There's a bunch of Breath of the Wild fanart out there that purposefully imitates Hayao Miyazaki's style: https://imgur.com/a/t4x4U . Forget realism, something like a playable Princess Mononoke is what I've been craving ever since the dawn of 3D gaming.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by 2xlbuds on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:50PM (#13779058)
Perhaps you were looking for this? Studio Ghibli produced the art for the Ni No Kuni series. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni_no_Kuni
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by cholantesh on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:51PM (#13779066)
Have you played Ni no Kuni? It's a co-production between Studio Ghibli and Level 5. Bit more Spirited Away then Mononoke, but it has that Miyazaki aesthetic down regardless.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by RobotCaleb on Thursday March 02, 2017 @11:51AM (#13775614)
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by joshbaptiste on Thursday March 02, 2017 @06:00PM (#13779147)
Woah, thanks for this link, never heard of Cupheads before but now it's a definite day one buy.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by tiglionabbit on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:26PM (#13778861)
You're gonna get a lot of game suggestions in response to this comment.

Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies is entirely in 3D but it manages to look a lot like the 2D art style of the previous games.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by panic on Thursday March 02, 2017 @07:33PM (#13779769)
The recently-released game Hollow Knight has some beautiful hand-animated graphics.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by alphonsegaston on Thursday March 02, 2017 @08:56PM (#13780155)
This does look beautiful and is coming out on the Switch! Definitely going to pick this up.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by 72deluxe on Thursday March 02, 2017 @07:21PM (#13779705)
I thought the Wind Waker was the best game I had ever played, if not for the beautiful rendering.

I found it far better than the Twilight Princess' rendering.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by onion2k on Thursday March 02, 2017 @11:39AM (#13775460)
Transformers Devastation is about as close to an interactive cartoon as any game has managed so far; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM1StfCCxok It looks pretty much exactly like the cartoons I grew up watching. Apparently it's not a great game though.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by mod on Thursday March 02, 2017 @11:46AM (#13775546)
Visually, I think it looks fantastic.

I've always liked that visual style.

Borderlands is an aesthetic I like, as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3RShjg6agQ

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by Zachery on Thursday March 02, 2017 @01:02PM (#13776469)
Do you like platinum style beat-em-up/spectacle fighters? If yes, then for what it is, its a great little game.

If you do not like those games, then no. I got it as a gift, but I would have gladly paid 20-30USD for it. Even though I'm not a massive transformers fan.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by psyc on Thursday March 02, 2017 @12:54PM (#13776359)
This is amazing. I would have been the happiest little boy in the world if the Bay obscenities had been just this instead.

And how has no 3D artist on the planet got around to modeling an authentic transforming 1986 Unicron yet?

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by thatmiddleway on Thursday March 02, 2017 @01:51PM (#13776981)
Oh man, you're going to love Persona 5! Check out the trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPqSkzNNPIg The 4th one is really good too, but definitely feels graphically dated.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by kaishiro on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:21PM (#13778816)
Thematically, Persona 4 was just so, so perfect (for me). I loved the spooky noir-ish town setting. Really looking forward to Persona 5 - it looks amazing - but from previews haven't quite got my head around the theme yet.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by lokedhs on Friday March 03, 2017 @04:56AM (#13781819)
There are many such games. I just finished Gravity Rush, and currently playing Tales of Zestiria, both of which has a very cartoon style art style.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by test1235 on Thursday March 02, 2017 @11:19AM (#13775241)
like dragon's lair?
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by _ph_ on Thursday March 02, 2017 @11:22AM (#13775278)
Right :)
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by jbattle on Thursday March 02, 2017 @01:24PM (#13776688)
The Long Dark [http://hinterlandgames.com/the-long-dark/] is running with a very unique asthetic and it works brilliantly. A few times I've stopped playing to just watch the sun set. It isn't realistic but it is authentic - if that makes any sense.

I would have expected the painterly style to prevent my suspension of disbelief but it hasn't.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by gdulli on Thursday March 02, 2017 @02:01PM (#13777098)
That only applies to character models, and really only faces. Environments benefit greatly from detailed graphics. Especially in this type of game where you occupy the world for so many hours and the pace is slower. These are worlds that you live in for a time. (I didn't understand why the new Doom needed sophisticated graphics because you never have much time to stop running and look at anything.)

I agree it doesn't have to be a top priority to push the limits beyond where we're at today. But it's disappointing to see Zelda miss out on at least current-gen graphics. The Witcher 3 is 2 years old now, at least come close to matching that. And it's hard to justify paying a current-gen price for a console with previous-gen capabilities.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by euyyn on Thursday March 02, 2017 @12:54PM (#13776366)
If Orientalist painting is what Google images shows when you query that, those are some damn beautiful paintings.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by clock_tower on Thursday March 02, 2017 @01:50PM (#13776965)
I'm pretty sure they are -- and they certainly are a beautiful style. Orientalist paintings are unfashionable in the current Western art world, which likes Modernism and still, 100+ years after its invention, hasn't figured out that the camera didn't make painting obsolete; but they're extremely popular in the Middle East, which used to be beautiful and is now drab, and where the rich want some sort of record of what their world ought to look like.

Art has fallen into the same sort of trap as architecture, where you get otherwise-intelligent, otherwise-tasteful students of the field -- like the author of McMansion Hell -- swooning over abominations like Boston's Government Center. Trust your heart, not academia. Refine your heart, to be sure (art is that which doesn't fall apart when you start asking questions about it); but trust it.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by alphonsegaston on Thursday March 02, 2017 @02:22PM (#13777296)
Oh, I'd never argue against the beauty of some of those works or the skills of their creators. And the same is true of many AAA games.

But in terms of advancing games as an art form, I think aesthetics that are more "grammatical" and "open" is the way forward (think comics/animation, Studio Ghibli). This doesn't eschew the use of Realism, but changes it from being the pinnacle we're striving for to a tool (among others) to be used in creating better art.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by Maultasche on Friday March 03, 2017 @12:53PM (#13784643)
They are, but they are idealistic depictions of the Middle East, Africa, and Asia as viewed by Europeans in the 19th and early 20th centuries. They depict some sort of European oriental fantasy world that doesn't look much like what these areas were really like at the time.

I think that's why those type of paintings are considered old-fashioned and silly when we have plenty of photographs, movies, and books that tell us what these regions are actually like. Not to mention that travel is now far more accessible to non-wealthy people.

I think that it's a fascinating insight into Europe at the time and how they viewed the world. It was also a lot more romantic period than now. Nationalistic paintings showing a nation's ancestors (like the Germanic tribes of the Roman era) were popular and tended to look the same way: a fantasy land ideal of what they wanted it to look like rather than what it really looked like.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by aaron-lebo on Thursday March 02, 2017 @10:35AM (#13774744)
I think the best example of this is Doom 3. It looked incredible at the time (even on the Xbox on release in 2005), but it has not aged well. Maybe today's games hold up better, but photorealism is always gonna be competing with tomorrow.

On the other hand, BotW has framerate drops and limitations on the Switch and it was designed for a console that was underpowered five years ago, which doesn't bode well.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by simplicio on Thursday March 02, 2017 @04:53PM (#13778613)
World of WarCraft is probably the best example of this effect. If they'd gone for realism, the game would've looked dated within a year or two, and had its popularity drop a lot faster.

But the cartoony style let them keep going with just minor updates to the graphics for more than a decade. That decision must've made them at least a billion dollars over the last 10 or so years.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by TheGRS on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:13PM (#13778762)
While I kind of think WoW looks pretty dated these days I would otherwise agree. When WoW was released it was alongside Everquest 2, which was poised to be the next big thing with realistic graphics and a name everyone recognized in MMOs (though people certainly recognized Warcraft as well). I would be surprised if anyone even really remembers Everquest 2 at this point, but for a good year or so we talked about which one would win out. WoW beat it and proceeded to beat every MMO record ever by several orders of magnitude.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by timje1 on Friday March 03, 2017 @05:43AM (#13781978)
I played both, and I remember talking loudly and often about how much better WoW looked despite having a fraction of the system reqs. WoW vanilla could be run on a potato - I think I had it going on a pentium 2 with a third hand graphics card...
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by timje1 on Friday March 03, 2017 @05:41AM (#13781969)
I remember thinking at the time "wow, the characters look like ass". I think the character models look worse than Final Fantasy X, which was a game with good art direction and miniscule polycount that came out in 2001.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by WillPostForFood on Thursday March 02, 2017 @09:03PM (#13780190)
I agree about the problems of pursuing photorealism, but I think Doom 3 actually holds up well, particularly the lighting and environments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28mn_fJlmbo

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by excalibur on Thursday March 02, 2017 @10:49AM (#13774893)
The 2005 Doom was a movie....

[EDIT: Yes I know the post above has been edited to fix/clarify, no I can't delete this post.]

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by freehunter on Thursday March 02, 2017 @10:57AM (#13774998)
They likely meant the one that came out in late 2004, Doom 3.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by mynameisvlad on Thursday March 02, 2017 @11:26AM (#13775324)
Which actually did come out in 2005 for the Xbox, according to the Wikipedia article for it.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by rubicon33 on Thursday March 02, 2017 @01:47PM (#13776935)
Both styles have their place. Doom 2016 was an amazing game, easily a favorite of mine. I appreciated the incredible, realistic graphics. It worked for this game.

Would I want Zelda, or Minecraft to be that way? Certainly not... Their aesthetic fits their world.

Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by SeanBoocock on Thursday March 02, 2017 @08:26PM (#13780031)
For another example of a unique aesthetic in a modern series of games, I would highly recommend The Banner Saga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIH0vS9AG4 and http://stoicstudio.com/
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by vlunkr on Thursday March 02, 2017 @02:06PM (#13777141)
It seems like lots of gamers I talk to who play lots of AAA games seem to think graphics and getting out of the uncanny valley, but IMO it's just getting worse. The people in games like Uncharted are so plastic and gross looking.
Re:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Review by btschaegg on Friday March 03, 2017 @01:08AM (#13781070)
Come to think of it, Doom 2016 had only one recognizable human in it - and she was obviously intentionally kept creepy in a very "Dead Space" oriented style. One has to wonder if the goal of that was to minimize the effect you're describing.