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Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by dperfect on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:25PM (#13641131)
> Reducing mA (power draw) rather than increasing mAh (power storage) is the most effective way to increase battery life, which would go a long way to explain manufacturers’ obsession with thinness (which, in electrical terms often directly translates efficiency (i.e., smallness)) in their devices rather than just giving us something that endures.

I think it goes the other way; the manufacturers' obsession with thinness (for mostly aesthetic reasons) goes a long way to explain why they're focusing on reducing power draw.

It's great that they are reducing power draw, but by making everything thinner (usually translating into decreased power storage), those gains in efficiency are largely cancelled out when it comes to battery life in real-world usage.

When creating these things, the designers, engineers, and marketing people obviously have some kind of target battery life in mind, and it seems as though the target is always "about the same battery life as the last generation," whereas there's no end to the number of compromises and engineering efforts that go toward cutting 1 mm off one dimension.

And of course, the tech bloggers all go nuts about how thin the newest generation is compared to the last, and people buy computers based on their recommendations.

Aren't these things thin enough already, at least for professionals? Why not go for some truly earth-shattering battery life on one of these laptops? Do people really care more about that 1 mm than they do about potentially hours of additional battery life?

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by M_Grey on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:29PM (#13641148)
Then, irony of ironies, people put their ultra-thin devices in cases to protect them, carry multiple batteries for them, or external charging bricks, and my favorite... the oversized extended battery.

Throws hands up in air

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by scarface74 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:01AM (#13641274)
I can't speak for laptops but I can speak for the utility of having a thin phone and a battery pack that makes it thicker and heavier than it would be if Apple just included a bigger battery:

I've only used my battery pack four or five times in the year and a half I've had my 6s. Most of the time I'm not far away from a plug - either at home, in my car, at work, etc.

But when I travel, a slightly bigger battery wouldn't be enough. I would want twice the battery life - something I can get by using a battery pack - but I probably wouldn't get from a slightly larger iPhone.

If you have to optimize, why optimize for the edge cases instead of the most popular case and give options for those times people need it.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by arthurfm on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:41AM (#13641446)
Now that the MacBook Pro has USB-C is there any reason Apple couldn't implement some type of fast-charging technology like you find in smartphones? The OnePlus 3/3T in particular are amazingly fast. [1][2]

Since getting my Pixel XL I have a noticed I rely on external battery packs less as I often have access to a power socket for at least an hour or two when I travel.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbELsT1hfnA

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0SU0Me4Fds

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by Eric_WVGG on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:00AM (#13641536)
The new MacBook Pro charges very, very quickly, 10 to 80% in 20-30 minutes by my estimation.

I can count on running off the battery all day as long as I can get it plugged in while I fetch a sandwich for lunch.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by rz2k on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:20AM (#13641608)
Do you know if it will slow charge from a low power usb power source?

If I plug mine into a 2 amp usb A charger it says that it is not charging, but does that mean it is drawing zero watts, or only that it is only drawing 10 watts? It would be nice to charge it overnight if only a phone charger happens to be around, or even just slow down the discharge rate while using the laptop.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by otheotheothe on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:40AM (#13641682)
It does slow charge, i use my external Anker Powercore Plus battery pack with it, while its not able to charge it while running because the MBP draws more Power than the Anker Battery can output it EXTENDS its battery lifetime very noticeably.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by ardaozkal on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:30AM (#13642130)
While that'd work, I'd advise against it as I feel like that'd needlessly heat the battery and reduce its life.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by unwind on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:15AM (#13642290)
If that were true, wouldn't it be the job of the computer's battery management system to make sure it didn't happen?

Forcing user to learn all kinds of magic rules for how to "treat their battery" seems very old-fashioned and strange.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by dev_tty01 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:47AM (#13643798)
No, when providing supplemental power the battery current is lower and therefore has less heating. This will extend the life of the battery.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by dogecoinbase on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:57AM (#13641757)
It does -- I travel with a 12" Macbook and the Google 15W USB-C charger. Take about 3 hours to charge from <10% to full.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by hultner on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @05:32AM (#13642559)
Where would one buy this charger? Would be great as a travel charger if it works well, I currently use my iPad charger but a 50% power boost would come greatly appreciated.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by jay-saint on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:11AM (#13644505)
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by hultner on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @05:29AM (#13642546)
I've charged my 15" Touchbar MBP with a 2 amp charger and a USB-A -> USB-C charger. Both used it for overnight charing and while plugged in (when using it plugged in it wouldn't draw battery but it wouldn't charge it either, maybe even drawing battery very slowly).
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by legulere on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:24AM (#13642325)
The reason why USB-C (with Power Delivery) is connected to fast charging with phones is that it allows more power to be transferred via cable than previous USB charging standards. For Notebooks this is not necessarily true, as there was no limitation for power delivered to the notebook before.

What you have to consider with fast charging is that it degrades the batteries faster and produces more heat.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by AlphaSite on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:54AM (#13644380)
iPad Pros fast charge from the USB-C adaptors.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by qeternity on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:13AM (#13641322)
Or just have an external battery pack that powers any of your USB devices. As you say, this represents maybe 5% of my usage. Most of the time I don't worry about battery, but sure enjoy having a slim phone.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by tmd83 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:26AM (#13641633)
Honest question what do you enjoy about the super slim phone? In the last years have you seen any phone thats too thick to hold or hard to put in pocket or just about don't fit in any place? Why slimmer, I honestly don't understand since it only makes it more slippery, harder to grip, more fragile. I don't see any use for further slimming than making a fashion statement or a notch for the marketing team.

I can understand if someone says they want even lighter.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by hulahoof on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:05AM (#13642041)
Lighter is always my main concern, I never really hear other people complain but I often support the bottom of my phone with my pinky when using with one hand (bad habit) - and I definitely feel every extra gram ...
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by tru3n0rth on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:41PM (#13641195)
Is that really a bad thing, though? It seems like it gives the consumer a choice between having an ultra-lightweight device, or compromising on that front in favor of more battery life and protection.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by dperfect on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:01AM (#13641272)
I agree with this point, but with laptop battery life, unfortunately the alternatives are all significantly worse than simply having a slightly thicker/heavier laptop. They almost always involve carrying additional devices (needing their own protective enclosures, cables, etc) and require additional cognitive load (Which spare battery is charged? Where did I leave that battery?). A bigger internal battery eliminates all of that. There are very few options (if any) in between.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by jhobag on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:48PM (#13641225)
Exactly. People that do tasks more intensive than watch youtube videos and work on spreadsheets don't need any more battery life so thinness is a priority for regular laptops. People doing intense work use t h i c c laptops
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by Tloewald on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:59PM (#13641263)
Here's the thing — of you want more endurance you can get extra batteries (and with USB-C you can probably start using interchangeable standard power bricks) but if battery life is adequate you don't need to. How is this worse?

One of the things that has changed my life for the better is switching entirely to devices that can use any USB power brick or USB charger in a pinch. This includes my cameras, tablets, phones, audio gear, and so on. The only remaining outlier is laptops.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by cgriswald on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:39AM (#13644784)
Even if devices weren't ultrathin they'd need to be in protective cases. Cases can be damaged and easily replaced. A damaged device is more expensive and less convenient to repair or replace.

As for battery packs, I have multiple devices, but I carry one battery pack that can charge all of them as needed. My phone is much lighter in my pocket for not having to have a larger battery (that I don't usually need), my ipad is easier to handle, etc.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by caycep on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:42PM (#13645391)
My mom throws her 11" MBA in her purse, and charges it only at night.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by Xixi on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:08AM (#13643552)
I do care about that extra 1mm, when it comes to a latptop. I think most people who buy a laptop to use it on the go care about that. To be entirely fair I care more about the weight reduction than the 1mm.

For instance the new MacBook Pro 13" is my first MacBook Pro, simply because it's the first that is thin/light enough for me to carry around. Before that I had a MacBook Air from 2011. The MacBook Pro is vastly more powerful, but to write code it doesn't help much. It's not like SublimeText was slow on the MacBook Air. It's however night and days when it comes to browsing the web...

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by falcolas on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:41AM (#13644250)
Counter anecdote: I've been carrying around laptops since my 17", 13# Alienware "laptop". Ever since the release of the 13" MBP (the one with the CD drive), a decent backpack or messenger bag has effectively negated every thickness and weight gains from that point on.

Frankly, I'm more annoyed by the bulk and weight of the power adapter than I am about 1mm or 1# off the laptop.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by yedpodtrzitko on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:58AM (#13644948)
You know why people complain? Because some time ago there was Macbook Air for people who prefer a thin and light machine, and then there was Macbook Pro for people who prefer more powerful machine (in whichever meaning). This separation actually made sense. But now they discontinued Air, and they are trying to make a single line full of compromises.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by nsxwolf on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:36PM (#13641179)
I recently carried an older 13 inch MacBook Pro around to a bunch of meetings in the city. I could not believe how heavy it started to feel after about a mile of total walking.

I welcome powerful laptops that are as light as possible.

Where are people working that they need a full day of untethered charge? I've never been to a client that didn't provide me with a power outlet.

4 or 5 hours of real world use for a developer workstation is just fine train commuting or sitting in a coffee shop in the morning.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by retreatguru on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:31PM (#13641155)
Precisely this. If the 2016 MacBook Pro I bought had been a tad thicker I would not have noticed. But I returned because of the dismal battery life under moderate load. Much worse than the previous generation. Did they even test this machine in the wild?
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by Tehnix on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:41PM (#13641198)
I on the other hand wouldn't have bought the Macbook Pro, but ended up doing so because it had now become the "Macbook Air with retina" that I'd been waiting on for ages (...although a shitton more expensive).

More battery would be nice, but thinness and espcially weight matter a great deal to me. I literally sometimes don't even have my charger with me, because that small amount of added weight annoys me a great deal. Although I'm probably a bit extreme in that regard.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by rayiner on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:42PM (#13641201)
The battery is 25% smaller. Not enough to go from not dismal to dismal. Likely the integrated GPU kicking in when it shouldn't.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by retreatguru on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:22AM (#13641865)
I guess I was hoping the battery would last longer than my 5 year old battery in my older MBP. I was kind of shocked when it didn't.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by rangibaby on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:02AM (#13642025)
That sounds like a bug of some sort (hopefully). MacBook battery life had a massive jump in the 2013 version.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by philliphaydon on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:23AM (#13641360)
The few people I know who upgraded from their 2012/2015 model to 2016 have complained about battery being worse :/
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by sfilipov on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:55PM (#13647568)
I wonder if all reports of poor battery life are from users of MBP with touch bar. It is interesting that the non-touch bar MBP has a ~10% bigger battery, half the TDP under sustained load and doesn't need to drive the ARM processor + touch bar. Thus better battery life than MBP with touch bar.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by rayiner on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:40PM (#13641193)
I don't really buy the "aren't they thin enough already" argument. I would've said my 15" MBP 2013 is small and light enough, but the 2016 model is notably more livable. The reduction in footprint (which also affects space for a battery) makes it a lot more manageable to spring for the 15". It's a pound lighter than the 13.3" polycarbonate MacBook I had a decade ago!
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by asafira on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:04AM (#13642032)
This is a pretty common rant on HN and other tech enthusiast sites.

My main qualm is your note that tech bloggers love the thinness and that people will buy it based on their recommendation.

A) do most people really read tech blogs to figure out what computer to buy? Or do most people ask the best buy guy or their friend? (I would guess the latter, but I am not super sure so I'm gonna leave it as a question...)

B) many tech bloggers to express their disappointment in manufacturer's obsession with thinness. (Examples: MKBHD, Android Police, maybe even Anandtech)

(On a separate note, I have read way too many tech blogs...)

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by sowpati on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:12AM (#13642066)
Regarding your first question, I'm not from a tech related field, and most people around me generally use Google for recommendations. And Google always ranks famous tech blogs higher on the list. So.. I would say yes.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by tinus_hn on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:06AM (#13643222)
Typically companies produce products that people want to buy. A vocal number of people on the internet keeps saying that everybody wants laptops with a bigger battery instead of thin laptops. Companies are producing thin laptops instead of big laptops with big batteries though, because that is what people are buying. So in reality, people do not want the bigger laptop with the big battery, they want the thin laptop.

If you want bigger laptops, go out and buy the biggest one you can find. If all these people that say they want it do that, you can be sure the market will be flooded with laptops with a big battery.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by JumpCrisscross on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:47PM (#13641219)
Apple forces thinness because nobody else does. This differentiates their products. It also forces their engineers to make things smaller before anyone else. That, in turn, keeps them at the forefront of miniaturization.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by BoorishBears on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:56PM (#13641249)
When the MacBook Air first came out that might have been true, but fitting in a manila folder is no longer that impressive with the ubiquity of ultrabooks. Apple hasn't been aggressive with selling thin the way they were with the Air (back when the Air came out it really was a breathtakingly thin laptop, or at least the marketing made you feel that way)

Apple doesn't even have the thinnest laptop anymore, that achievement is now in HP's hands with the 10.4mm thick Spectre (and before that it was HP's Envy)

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by jlarocco on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:23AM (#13641621)
Thinner also (usually) means lighter, and a lot of people prioritize light weight over longer battery life.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by seanp2k2 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:18AM (#13642086)
Yep, they could have put a 99wh battery in it and gave it another ~33% battery life (the 2016 15" tbMBP has a 76wh pack while the 2015 had the 99wh pack). Given that 100wh is the largest you can easily bring on a plane, I'm sure many people would have been happier with "up to 13 hours of battery life" instead of "10" right now.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by memco on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:25AM (#13641373)
> Why not go for some truly earth-shattering battery life on one of these laptops?

Interesting to note that there are reports that there was a failed battery design that would have given these latest models even more battery[0]. However, I think your suggestion is more reasonable. If there's less space being used for components, fill it with more battery. Then they could possibly have offered the 32GB of ram they couldn't offer due to battery concerns[1].

[0]https://www.macrumors.com/2016/12/20/larger-battery-gold-col...

[1]https://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/21/phil-schiller-32gb-ram-...

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by pmontra on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:08AM (#13642691)
Anecdotally, a customer of mine had to replace his MacBook and bought the new one with the OLED strip. He says that the battery lasts about the same as the old one. The only difference he felt is the USB-C connectors and the need to have a dongle for everything. He's not happy about that.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by 6t6t6t6 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:17PM (#13648624)
I really do care about weight and dimensions. Before I used to buy the typical 3.5Kg laptops. When you carry an Acer around, you can feel the weight in your backpack, even when you walk around the office to go to a meeting. I switched to a MBA and I feel it like if it was a paper notebook. It is a huge difference. A perfect laptop for me would have the weight an dimensions of a MBA with almost the power of a MBP.

As for battery life, I need enough battery to be able to go to meetings without having to take the charger with me. It's not usual for me to work 8 hours without having a charger near to me. Also, as far as I know, the new Macs with USB-C, can be charged from an external battery pack.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by gigatexal on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:16AM (#13641598)
I agree. And thinness to me is more about minimalism than anything else. And that I laude Apple for.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by jfoster on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:10AM (#13643560)
I actually do appreciate a thinner, lighter machine, but with phones and laptops they're at the point where I'd happily take a few extra mm in order to get something more rugged with significantly better battery life.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by microtheo on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:15AM (#13641842)
Everybody always talks about thinness... I would argue that all they want is reduce the cost of the components. The smaller the battery for the same battery life, the cheaper it will be to produce. Everything is about rentability.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by digi_owl on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:22AM (#13644047)
I find myself thinking that i recall reading about certain thinkpads (or some other brand) had the option of an attached battery that would fit flush with the laptop bottom.

Thus i find myself thinking about some way to do a combo of frames/cases and batteries so that one can add a frame to a laptop and insert batteries into the frame to extend overall runtime.

The idea of the frames being that if one replace the laptop one only need to replace the frame but continue to use the batteries.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by michaelbuckbee on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:11AM (#13641315)
I can only imagine there has been some study of how long between charges people go on average/median. I imagine most people aren't going all day without any chance to charge (the world seems to have gotten more charger friendly) and there are probably lots of weirdos like me who work from home and never take their MBPs anywhere.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by Shivetya on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:04AM (#13642923)
well based on weight and size current generation laptops from Dell, Apple, and others, still has being doing a double take when picking up my laptop bag; as in is it in there?

I think the battle over thinness and weight was well worth it but the next battle is getting workflow to work in a full touch screen interface similar to the surface pro do and not he half ass move Apple made with that touch bar. Applications and imagination are holding that up. I do not expect keyboards to ever go away completely but pointing devices are another thing entirely

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by djrogers on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:54PM (#13641242)
> at least for professionals?

Professional whats? Executives, salespeople, real estate agents, pediatricians, beer distributors - all of these people are professionals, and all of them can and do benefit from smaller and lighter computing power.

Clearly your idea of a professional is someone who is chained to a desk writing code or processing complex 3D graphics. No question those are professional uses as well, but the idea of a 'professional computer user' covers a lot more ground these days than your insular definition.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by exergy on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:21AM (#13641862)
Please explain to me how complicated and demanding is the workflow of these "salespeople, real estate agents, pediatricians and beer distributors(!)" that you talk about? What exactly is stopping them from getting the smaller 12" MacBook? Or the infinite other ultrabooks available now? Something called the "Pro", and something that costs a pretty penny, shouldn't just cater to the ones out and about and only needing Excel.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by Veen on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:03AM (#13642250)
I'm a writer, and I consider myself a "pro" in that field. I don't really need the power of the Macbook Pro, but I do need a larger retina screen. The Macbook Pro is really the only laptop Apple makes at the moment that fits my needs.

I'm not sure why people who need high performance are so sniffy and condescending about those who don't. A requirement for massive computer resources doesn't make the work more valuable or respectable. Your moral worth is not linked to the number of processors you require to get your work done.

> Or the infinite other ultrabooks available now?

They don't run MacOS.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by megaduck on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:34AM (#13642366)
You're clearly the target market for these new MBPs, and that's great. Glad you have a machine that fits your needs.

People with more strenuous computing needs are miffed because the MBP used to fit our use case, and now it doesn't. There isn't a single Apple product focused on the high performance market any more, and some of us are bitter.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by ProblemFactory on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:28AM (#13642765)
Imho people are upset at Apple because they are leaving people who do need high performance, but want to stick with MacOS in the cold.

The current laptop lineup is great, and perfect for a wide range of professions, myself included. But there is nothing for the person who wants more power, even if with more weight and cost. The desktop lineup is okay, but 3-year-old models keep being sold at launch prices, and are not practically upgradeable.

Nobody cares if HP comes out with boring laptops one year - because there's always Lenovo, Dell, etc to choose from, and for desktops you can always build your own. But if you want to stay with your software and workflows on MacOS, Apple is the only maker of Macs.

My "suggestion" for Apple would be to give up on the Mac Pro desktop line, take one high-end Dell workstation every year, and test and qualify it to run MacOS. People already build Hackintoshes, so it cannot be too complex compared to designing and building their own hardware.

This would mean that people who want to pay $10-50k, can have a MacOS computer with 44 cores, a terabyte of memory, 4 graphics cards, 8 SSDs in RAID, and so on. Add a generous "Apple tax" to make it worthwhile for Apple, and people who want the power always have one "really maxed out" option. And everyone who complains about laptops not being powerful enough can be told to get a desktop instead.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by na85 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:09AM (#13642942)
>I'm not sure why people who need high performance are so sniffy and condescending about those who don't.

I submit that it's because the people in one camp feel that Apple screwed them in order to cater to people in the second camp. The people in the first camp are sick of hearing how the MBP is adequate for the people in the second camp, and are projecting a little bit.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by arviewer on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @05:11AM (#13642489)
I don't mind that Apple offers very thin laptops that limit battery life, and make it impossible to change harddisks or add memory. The Macbook Air was the first, and it was great as it was. If there is a market for this, whether for professionals or not, they should sell them as much as then can.

I do mind that they don't offer at least one good alternative that is "programmer pro": harddisk can be changed, RAM can be added, battery can be replaced and may be bigger. I really don't mind 5mm or even 1cm extra thickness if that gives me all this for a reasonable price. And the 2012 Macbook Pro (without retina) was offered up til last year, but that was no real option with four year old hardware and still for the same price.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by rimantas on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @05:54AM (#13642628)
I am a programmer and changing RAM/disk/replaceable batteries are not on my list of things I need for work.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by nkristoffersen on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:10AM (#13644498)
Programmer pro does not need HD replacement and ram replacement. I would say in this day and age, decent keyboard, awesome screen, and fast wifi makes the most impact... I think what you mean is "computer enthusiast" because a pro will get the right tool for the job and get to work. MacBook pros have not been upgradable for a while and I would bet a significant number of "programmer pros" still use them without complaint.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by Klover on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:19AM (#13642310)
>Something called the "Pro", and something that costs a pretty penny, shouldn't just cater to the ones out and about and only needing Excel.

Do you know of that instant update feature in Excel? It automatically updates cells when you alter one, up to a certain performance point. My MacBook (non anything) stops doing so much faster than when I use a desktop. When I do process a line of heavier formulae I do have to also wait a fair amount longer than when I use a larger machine.

And the pretty penny argument does not really hold up when you are talking about it as a company expense, due to the very favorable tax perspective.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by tinus_hn on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:08AM (#13643230)
> Do you know of that instant update feature in Excel? It automatically updates cells when you alter one, up to a certain performance point. My MacBook (non anything) stops doing so much faster than when I use a desktop.

Sorry but that has to be one of the most ridiculous benchmarks I've seen in a long time.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by cracoucax on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:56AM (#13643489)
It's not a benchmark, he's just saying that even excel users can have a need for powerful computers too
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by Someone on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:37AM (#13641917)
12" may be too small to show stuff to other people sitting around a table, or too uncomfortable on their eyes.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by lstamour on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:57AM (#13642006)
So they'll release a 15" version of the 12" soon enough. The point still stands: if Apple is the only ones making Macs, they need to cater to those who would prefer workstations or gaming rigs as the highest end "Pro" market. If it needs a separate graphics card, it's not for Excel...
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by yoz-y on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:59AM (#13642236)
I think the ship on gaming macs has sailed. Apple has shown intermittent interest in high end computing, rendering, compilation and so. But the only "gaming" machine they ever produced is the iPad. None of their PCs was even remotely competitive with the competition and I believe they do not care.

I think that the only thing that could "trick" them into making a gaming machine is VR, as it requires similar hardware.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by techdragon on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:53AM (#13642219)
Let's be brutally realistic.

They don't "need" to... We just really want them to.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by marcosdumay on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:15AM (#13643593)
Time will tell that.

They made their brand exactly by caring about the people they are throwing away now. It's not obvious if their brand will sustain itself without those people.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by rayiner on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:00AM (#13643514)
> What exactly is stopping them from getting the smaller 12" MacBook?

Screen size. I'd personally love a 15" fanless MacBook.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by yaseer on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:51AM (#13643147)
You're conflating a 'professional' as a white-collar job classification, and a 'professional' computer user.

The macbook pro is a computer for professional computer users.

A professional philosophy professor has no need of a macbook pro, a professional video-editor does.

Being a 'professional; in your white-collar classification, doesn't imply that you're a professional computer user.

It's not an insular definition, it's a specific definition.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by glhaynes on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:24AM (#13644630)
A professional philosophy professor has no need of a macbook pro, a professional video-editor does.

I don't see why. A philosophy professor might prefer a larger screen and a faster CPU for their web browsing and document editing. And, while a professional video-editor would understandably gripe about it, I have no doubt they could get their work done—if they had to—on a 12" MacBook. Video editors used to get fine work done on Pentiums that offered a small fraction of the performance.

It's not an insular definition, it's a specific definition.

Set by whom? Where?

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by yaseer on Wednesday February 15, 2017 @10:30AM (#13652640)
I'm sure you can find some philosophy professors that will appreciate bigger screens and faster computers; that wasn't the point.

This is about the semantics of the word 'professional' and avoiding confusing a 'professional' in the white-collar-job sense, and a 'professional computer user'.

Set by whom? Where?

Well, apple don't define their terms formally in a Dictionary, they're subject to interpretation. I would say they've historically marketed the Macbook pro as a computer for 'professional computer users', not 'professional' in the white-collar vs blue-collar sense of the word.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by nxc18 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:00AM (#13641268)
I see no reason why any of those people benefit from the slightly thinner form of the new mbp than they would benefit from better battery life.

Everyone wants batteries that last longer. How often did you look at your last generation mbp and wish it was thinner?

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by qeternity on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:08AM (#13641304)
These people are lugging their laptop around all day, from meeting to meeting, or airport to airport. If you can keep battery life constant at ca. 10 hours, which covers an extended work day, then beyond that most people would prefer to have lighter/slimmer/cooler (less hot) devices than one that runs for 20 hours.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by tmd83 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:31AM (#13641654)
I can agree on lighter, cooler or even smaller (in length/width) but really slimmer? As I said in another thread, what does a slimmer laptop gives you in present day.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by spiderfarmer on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:07AM (#13641805)
For a consultancy job I carry two notebooks around. A company provided Lenovo laptop and Macbook pro. Would love to have a lighter laptop, without resorting to cheap plastic. I don't want a smaller screen as I can't connect external monitors there and my eyes are not that great.

I love the fact that I don't have to carry a charger for the Macbook, even after 2 years of usage it still runs long enough to last a workday.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by rusk on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:02AM (#13642245)
> even after 2 years of usage

Okay so its not the new Macbook we're talking about here. I think I may have the same one, I bought it in 2014 and I love it. It still takes everything I throw at it, and it connects to everything. Full SSD which I was wary of at first but once you get used to no moving parts - which don't break - it's hard to imagine going back to clunky spinning platters.

I'd be hard pressed to go for the new MBPs though. My 2014 is so light it barely registers as it is. I'd prefer to keep the same degree of connectivity and utility. The new one I'm afraid seems a bit much of show pony.

I'm concerned with the direction Apple's software is taking as well. Others here mention the abandonment of the high end, with regards to photography, video, music etc. but even the middle-ground is a mess. iTunes keeps getting clunkier and clunkier to the point where I'm seriously considering not getting an iPhone because that's the last reason I need to use it at this stage.

I think the Photos app leaves a lot to be desired as well. A lot of people moaned about iPhoto - but to me it seemed way better.

Then there was Yosemite, which is actually the only dark period in my MBP's life. Things would just mysteriously stop working, and regular reboots were fairly common. What particularly stands out is that fiasco around mDnsResponder / Discoveryd - which ironically most acutely affected users with a mostly Apple ecosystem.

Each of these three instances, as well as other notables such as Apple maps, are cases where Apple just couldn't "leave well enough alone"; took something that worked okay and foisted a big steaming pile of dog poo on us instead.

In fairness though the emphasis seems to be on "think different" these days rather than "it just works" but it may as well be "software is hard, lets go shopping".

Sorry, I seem to have gone way off on a tangent here. Though I feel the general sentiment is still OT. Thanks!

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @05:33AM (#13642568)
I think Apple has devolved into middle aged middle manager computing. Photos of the kids and the holidays are nice, videos are nice, being able to buy music and movies is nice, oh, and maybe some popular games.

Look, it plays Angry Birds and that thing with the cars - what more could anyone want?

And there's a text and presentation editor, and a spreadsheet, because those are super important.

I'd guess there's no one to represent any of the pro user communities in Cupertino any more at the top levels. There's certainly no passion for making beautiful, creative tools any more.

I still like the hardware - the iPad Pro is a favourite in this house, and I'm enjoying a new MacBook - but how I wish someone could give MacOS software like iTunes and Photos a kick up the ass to make it awesome instead of eccentric and annoying.

And how I wish Apple would open up to all the creative communities and start listening to what pro users want, instead of telling us that we don't really need what we used to have and we should - y'know - just get over ourselves.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by NTripleOne on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:06AM (#13642682)
Bend potential.

Edit: Evidently the downvotes have proven that thinner devices do not lead to increased risk of bend damage.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by seanp2k2 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:41AM (#13642177)
Sure, if it actually lasted 10 hours in real-life usage, which it doesn't, which they could have prevented by using the 99wh battery instead of the 76wh which was chosen to make it thinner. I'm nearly positive that it would make a 1mm difference in the overall thickness and a small addition weight-wise (LiPo packs are not super heavy).

At least give people a choice. The 17" used to be fantastic as well, and I still miss it. It was big and bulky enough that causal users didn't want it and so Apple didn't have to try to appease them with it as much.

It'd be great if they licensed MacOS again if they're going to give up on the higher end as we've seen with the Mac Pro 0-upgrades-in-4-years zero-commitment-to-the-platform approach they've taken, as we've seen with killing Xserve, with the dual-core-only Mac minis after the 2012 model, with iMacs using all laptop parts...

They message they send is clear: we make computers to do Facebook and some Excel on, not for making movies (FinalCut Pro X dropping tons of pro features), not for photographers (Aperture is discontinued), not for DJs (no more FireWire and 100% USB-C), not for programmers or hacker types (check how old their versions of unix tools are, dtrace locked out with rootless AKA SIP, non-upgradable/repairable hardware, Mac App Store limitations). All the reasons macs sold so well with pros before are basically nonexistent in 2017, and I predict that they'll slowly fade out of the pro scenes. At some point, consumers will notice ("why doesn't every major DJ have the glowing Apple logo on stage anymore???") and they will stop being cool.

I'm pretty convinced that all it would take to usurp Apple is a really solid design like an old IBM or a sturdy Dell with a touchpad that doesn't register your palm half the time, and a chassis that doesn't droop a few mm on one side when you pick it near the corner. Sadly, even today, there are not many options for laptops that don't feel like complete crap compared to any MacBook.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by deepGem on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:29AM (#13641389)
Agreed. I think heat dissipation is often overlooked while making a buying decision.

Regarding overall portability, I think the 13 inch MacBook air is a good compromise. The new 13 inch MacBook pro is about the same weight, but obviously a lot more powerful, and is smaller in dimensions. It's a breeze to work on planes with this machine.

I'd rather see the next iteration of MacBook Pros with better heat dissipation and longer battery life than with 1 mm improvement in thickness.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by rz2k on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:07AM (#13641565)
Thinner implies a better ratio of surface area to volume for dissipating heat. Though, I suppose a laptop could be thicker by including empty space with fans and airflow to exhaust the heat out the sides rather than conducting it through the surfaces touched by users.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by deepGem on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:10AM (#13641818)
Right, also heat dissipation is a function of the processors. I don't think Intel has any processor offerings in the i5 and i7 families which will enable fan-less laptop design. Asus seems to have swapped the Core M processors with the i5 and i7 families in their latest Zenbooks. At 700$ this laptop is a steal.

https://www.amazon.com/UX330UA-AH54-13-3-inch-Ultra-Slim-Pro...

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by snovv_crash on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:41AM (#13643097)
You don't increase the surface area of a laptop by making it thinner.

Sure the ratio changes, but I'm not sure how that is relevant.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by dilemma on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:38AM (#13642804)
Why would thickness matter for heat dissipation? It's not a block of copper so it's not relevant.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by ciaranm on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:16AM (#13642972)
I cycle with my MBP on my back every day. I also develop backend apps using VMs and need processing power. I bought the 15" MBP because this time around it was light enough for me. A year ago I would have got the 13", and been sad that I didn't have a bigger screen or faster machine.

Make of that what you will, but we exist.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by bbgm on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:14AM (#13641325)
Often enough. I've stopped traveling with my MBP in favor of a 12" iPad pro. Likewise, on a day full of meetings, my MBP stays at my desk connected to a giant monitor and I walk around with the iPad Pro. I am not alone from what I have observed.
Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by bluedino on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:59AM (#13643513)
>> How often did you look at your last generation mbp and wish it was thinner?

Never. Not once. I almost found it comical how thick the old MacBook Pro was to my Retina MacBook Pro. Then after using a new one for a while and going back to my once-thin rMBP 13", it feels as thick as the old generation.

Re:New Macbook Pro power efficiency and time remaining by amelius on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:16AM (#13642720)
> Professional whats? Executives, salespeople, real estate agents, pediatricians, beer distributors - all of these people are professionals, and all of them can and do benefit from smaller and lighter computing power.

You and the OP highlight a problem here: Apple's offerings in the "pro" segment is too limited to satisfy all different users' needs.

Apple needs to diversify.