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Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by zeteo on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @06:11PM (#13536342)
> “Liquor at that time,” recalled the Massachusetts carpenter Elbridge Boyden, “was used as commonly as the food we ate.”

And it made perfect sense in the age before refrigeration. Since alcohol doesn't spoil it's a great way to achieve long-term storage of calories from grains (beer, whiskey) or fruit (wine, brandy). For many centuries the French peasant would be sustained in his daily labors by the bottle of wine in his pocket.

In rural areas alcohol was a necessity, not a luxury. Part of the reason why the young Federal government ran into trouble imposing what it thought was a tax on vice [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by bane on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:41PM (#13537393)
There were also classes of alcohol that we just don't really bother much with today. For example Small beer and various other low alcohol beers were very common and helped prevent sickness from drinking tainted water.

One of my friends is a very dedicated home brewer, and he's recently taken an interest in a lost class of 2-3% beers that have fallen out of fashion.

There's also traditional ferments like Kvass or Brottrunk which are made from bread, have <1% alcohol and are very drinkable and can also make the foundation for a soup or other foods which need some quick flavor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_beer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by pavel_lishin on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:11PM (#13537562)
I had completely forgotten that kvass is a bit alcoholic on my last trip to visit my family, until I realized that I was having a very good time indeed having started drinking it when I woke up early in the morning.

Makes me wonder a bit about just how much of that stuff I drank as a kid, because I certainly don't remember moderating myself then, either.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by rdtsc on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:30PM (#13537977)
Kefir can have a bit of alcohol in it as well. Not sure how much industrially produced kind has. But brewed at home would have some.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by wruza on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @09:15AM (#13540821)
Both kvass and kefir can save your morning after yesterday's zastolie (and the entire day if otherwise you would start it with more alcoholic drinks).
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by magic_beans on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @06:15AM (#13539829)
Kombucha as well.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by kagamine on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @02:33AM (#13539049)
Not sure if it is still available, but in the UK there was a stout called Sweetheart Stout that was brewed to 2.5% alcohol making it like a very sweet Guinness. It is lovely, used to drink it all the time 20 years ago.

Iirc it was in earlier times marketed to ladies and also pregnant women because it is high in Vitamin B12(?) or something. Legend had it you wouldn't get rickets (bendy legs) if you drank sweet stout.

In Scandinavia lett øl (low alcohol beer) is in all the supermarkets, this is 2.5% alcohol pilsner.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by jamesfmilne on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @08:43AM (#13540614)
My mother claims she used to drink that whilst she was pregnant with me.

Would explain a lot :D

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by Graham24 on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @08:12AM (#13540426)
That sounds a bit like Mackeson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackeson_Stout
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by l0b0 on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @05:27PM (#13546023)
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by kagamine on Thursday February 02, 2017 @03:09AM (#13548940)
Can't get that sent to me outside the UK and now I am sad and it's all your fault. But now I have another reason to visit the homeland, so I am happy and that's your fault too.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by thetwentyone on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @10:00AM (#13541183)
In Colorado, non-liquor stores are capped at selling alcohol at 3.2%. Varieties in many types of beer were sold, some specially made for this type of distribution. We called them "grocery store beers".
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by santaclaus on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:33PM (#13537668)
> One of my friends is a very dedicated home brewer, and he's recently taken an interest in a lost class of 2-3% beers that have fallen out of fashion.

Isn't that what a session beer is supposed to be?

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by TylerE on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:43PM (#13537725)
Sessions are typically 3-5% ABV.

Not sure there is anything commercially marketed that is under 3% ABV, really.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by dagw on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @03:41AM (#13539318)
Not sure there is anything commercially marketed that is under 3% ABV, really.

In Norway and Sweden beer under 2.8% is is exempt from most licencing and excise regulations. So there is large market for that sort of beer.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by SFJulie on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @05:33AM (#13539678)
Personal experience, yes.

The ancester of carbonated soda, called «limonade» in France and given to kids cannot be naturally obtained without alchohol.

As an experience I did make some (water, citrus, a little exposition to air (thus yeast)) and anaeroby fermentation will give you the expected result: - an acid, sugarish refreshing drink - with bubbles, - and ~2-3% alcohol

My experiments confirm what is said on a chemistry forum. http://forums.futura-sciences.com/chimie/410527-limonade-art...

Kids, were given alcohol in the old days, no wonder why they were calmer, lol.

My look at older german polish recipies makes me suspicious that a common drink of the old ages their the «brotbier» (you put old bread in a jar of water and let it ferment in anaerobic conditions) should also have been alcoholized.

And yes without Chaptal (17g/l of sugar = 1% alcohol, how to dope your alcohol fast) (not Gay Lussac) obtaning strong alcohol is tough.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by WorldMaker on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @11:02AM (#13541713)
The ability to carbonate water (for soda) without yeast/alcohol is very much a relatively modern industrial invention.

Root beer and Ginger ale are named as such for the obvious reason.

My small disappointment in the current fad of "hard" sodas is that they are often malt beverages/"distilled" beer at ~5% alcohol rather than, say, traditional recipes in the ~2-3% range.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by SFJulie on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @11:04AM (#13541738)
make yours :) it is easy and fun.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by dpark on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:49PM (#13538057)
I don't think I've ever seen a session beer for sale under 4%. Most seem to be between 4.5 and 4.9, just low enough to be "less than 5".
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by gabemart on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @02:40AM (#13539088)
That's a real shame, they're ubiquitous in Scotland; any brand's "70 shilling" will be in the 3.5% range. Belhaven Best is also extremely common, and that's 3.2%.

It's common in England for pubs to have at least one bitter that is below 4%.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by david-given on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @05:23AM (#13539653)
They're awesome, too. Tonnes of flavour, huge variety, thoroughly drinkable, and low enough in alcohol that you can usually get an extra pint in. There are what the USians call microbreweries everywhere and any decent pub is likely to have a local session beer, frequently very good.

I live in Zürich now. The local lager's okay, but it's all lager, and it's all 5%, which is the upper limit of what I like. I miss good old fashioned ale.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by saiya-jin on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @08:41AM (#13540601)
if you mean stuff you can buy in shops like COOP, then local lager is piece of s__t. if you mean some local small breweries then it might be different
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by jacobush on Thursday February 02, 2017 @11:26AM (#13551728)
But ... try Falcon Bayersk and tell me you don't like it.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by jacobush on Thursday February 02, 2017 @11:24AM (#13551707)
3.5% beers, if well made well, to my taste are better than the stronger ones of the same brand.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by ch4s3 on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @12:32AM (#13538534)
You'll find a handful in the 3-4% range if you look around a nice beer shop.Look for session IPAs, "table beers", and maybe some Goozes.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by dpark on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @12:49AM (#13538596)
I've not checked for "table beers" and don't know what that actually is. Goses aren't my style. IPAs are, and I've seen few if any session IPAs in person that hit at or below 4%. Just looking at the top 10 session IPAs that show up when I search for "session" on Untappd, I see only one below 4%, Even Keel at 3.8%. So I guess someone's making them, but no one's making them at 3 and almost no one is making them below 4.

Although honestly I don't think I'd want a session IPA at 4 or below. Most (though not all) session IPAs are pretty terrible at ~4.5. They'd probably taste like watery trash at 3.5.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by wahnfrieden on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @04:52AM (#13539555)
Btw, I think OP meant Gueze / Gueuze lambic which is quite different from Gose though similar in many ways too.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by phillc73 on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @06:56AM (#13539994)
There are many in this range in Australia, where they are known as Light Beers and have almost 10% market share. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Australia#Market_chara...

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by narag on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:33PM (#13536947)
Soft beer I can believe it. But whisky? I don't think so. After a little physical activity, a headache is what you can expect.

BTW, was beer popular in USA at that time?

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:52PM (#13537071)
Cider was the most common drink.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by brokenmasonjars on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:28PM (#13537653)
I may be wrong but I remember learning some where some years ago that cider was less in alcoholic content. Sometimes I travel to Ithaca which has a cider store that sells a number of European ciders. Surprisingly a lot are 2.5% to 5.4%.

Mead was also drank but I'm not sure it's popularity. If you read Food in England by Dorethy Hartley; beet wine, turnip wine and carrot wine were all being made too. I have a recipe for parsley root wine that I keep meaning to try whenever I have them fresh from the garden.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by SFJulie on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @05:43AM (#13539723)
The amount of alcohol nowadays in cider is due to legislation.

My cider without chaptalisation can go to ~6%. (100g/l is what modern apple yields in sugar this 100g/17 ~ 5.8%)

Actual cider makers are owned by a few brands that can make cheaper cider that are horribly sugarish since the 90s.

Old «farmers» cider were more acid, astringent and strong.

No need to say, that farmers were no idiots and that the knowledge of adding more sugar to higher the degree of alcohol is known since the XIXth.

I have add access to «cidre fermier of the grandpa» that was 12%.

Opaque, whitish and making you cough.

That is how my cider is looking like, and how home made and «illegally sold under the mantel» ciders were.

The government is trying to kill the taste of traditional products for the profit of big shitty brands. But the gustative resistance is all over the country since decades.

We will not bow down, and will keep on making bread, hams, alcohol, choucroute, pickles and jams in our homes.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by rm_-rf_slash on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @09:51AM (#13541111)
I believe this book may be relevant to your post: "Everything I Want To Do Is Illegal: War Stories from the Local Food Front"

https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Want-Do-Illegal-Stories/dp...

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by SFJulie on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @11:03AM (#13541716)
I was a tad exaggerating. However living in Canada made me scared of how much the federal govt was looking so victorian.

They are scared of everything, making blood wurst the traditionnal way (by taking blood, spices and milk) is forbidden!

They almost pasteurize everything, even the cheeses !

And god curse the queen, Québec has awesome cheeses better than most UK and germany.

Cheesus God! I don't want to take part in the global fight against tasty food!

Tripes, boundins, alcohols, bagels, couscous, kebab, pierogi, pizza, bo bun and so much more should be the symbol of a new generation, giving up on flags for the profit of what should really unite us: happy fooding!

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by WorldMaker on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @11:21AM (#13541963)
In the US there are definitely still a lot of laws on the books outright prohibiting the brewing of ciders and the sale of ciders. Most of these laws are leftovers of American prohibition and its teetotaling war on all alchohol. Some of the anti-cider laws were the first on the books and the strictest and hardest to overturn in the way that marijuana laws are similar the vanguard of America's laws in place from its war on drugs.

Alcoholic cider is one of the easiest things to homebrew, and was indeed something of a common beverage. To my grandfathers and great-grandfathers, brewing cider was an act of home rebellion, a reminder of how simple and commonplace alcohol can be. During the American Prohibition cider brewing was seen as a slippery slope to bootlegging and moonshine. (Partly because it was.)

I think America is still recovering from a lot of Prohibition-era anti-cider bias. There are still a lot of people that seem to think that making home ciders is dangerous and a quick way to die, even as there is an incredible movement overall in homebrewing beers these days. In some states, from what I recall, it may even still be the case that homebrewing cider is technically illegal.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by SFJulie on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @12:53PM (#13543056)
My immigrant (Belgian) great father also arrived in a anti cider era (in France).

No resistance, he just did what stubborn persons are making ; his own cider at industrial scale for him. I think he actually ended up being a legal moonshiner (bouilleur de crue).

Incidently, I am gonna point at Vermont and Québec that are 2 of my favourite north American regions because they so love great food :

- Québec cider industry is making awesome apple wine, and some heirs of french traditions are going back to making french ciders (I prefer the québecan apple wine) that are delightful;

- Vermont and Québec are pushing towards high quality food;

- Washington wines deserves to be given a thumb up for their quality (ontario/niagara wines are interesting too);

- Québec is beginning to produce amazing high quality stuff in Gaspésie (charcuterie, sparkling wines, veggies...)

My staying in Canada has been enlightened by the discovery of great food coming from unexpected places, and the rebirth of old awesome traditions. I even tasted close to medieval french recipes and it actually brought tears to my eyes. (When it comes to food, I have a problem)

And I also remember eating in PA in an amish place where food was way above standards.

The cliché of America being an underdeveloped gastronomical country is a lie. Even the tacos in Miami (FL) bouibouis are awesome.

United tastes of (diverse) foods (and alcohol)!

We cannot hate people with food we want to eat!

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by rm_-rf_slash on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @01:03PM (#13543174)
Which cider store in Ithaca are you referring to? I live here and I can only think of Cellar D'or and the larger store near the FedEx on state street.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by brokenmasonjars on Tuesday February 07, 2017 @12:24AM (#13587293)
Cellar D'or. I'll have to check out the one near the Fedex some time.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by jhbadger on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:11PM (#13537559)
And for stronger stuff, Applejack (which is distilled cider; often by the primitive freeze-distilling method).
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by guard-of-terra on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:33PM (#13536949)
Can human body actually make use of alcohol as energy? Because I was fairly sure we can only make energy of something that breaks down to glucose, which alcohol obviously doesn't.

Not so sure already.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by spqr0a1 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:19PM (#13537261)
Humans absolutely can use ethanol for energy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_metabolism We net 7 kcal/g from ethanol, (compare to 9 kcal/g fat, or 4 kcal/g carbohydrate/protein.) There's several intermediate steps, but it's pretty efficient and a dense source of energy.

Much of lipid and protein catabolism also does not rely on glucose as an intermediate. Everything that doesn't get converted to glucose first will get converted to acetyl-CoA (glucose catabolites turn into this too) for use in the Krebs cycle.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by BjoernKW on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @04:09AM (#13539422)
Absolutely. Bavarian monks famously invented Bock beer (very rich, high wort density, 7% ABV and above) as nourishment during Lent when they were not allowed to take in solid food.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by narag on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:40PM (#13536984)
I've read somewhere that beer was used instead of water in areas where water wasn't safe. IIRC, beer has non-alcoholic calories also. I don't believe one can live on spirits, but it could make you forget you are hungry :)

Edit: I should have read TFA before commenting.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by r00fus on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @03:02AM (#13539170)
Old saying that my wife's French grandpa liked to say - "I don't drink water, it makes me rust".
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by pouetpouet on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @05:20AM (#13539637)
Heard it as "Water make iron stomachs rust". Usually everyday beer as a replacement of water was smallbeer/bière de table with 2-3% alcohol.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by maxerickson on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:59PM (#13537110)
Yes, humans can derive energy from alcohol.

The system that eventually extracts energy from glucose (the citric acid cycle, also called the Krebs cycle) is involved, after the liver converts the ethanol.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by crooked-v on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:43PM (#13536997)
All the calories from the grains or fruits used to make alcoholic drinks don't just evaporate into the ether! "Lite" beers with low calorie contents are a fairly new invention.

If you look back far enough, some early brewing, like that of ancient Egypt, made beer so thick that mugs would often come with straws built into them so people could get past the thick layer of almost-solid grains that would float to the top.

Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by sndean on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:50PM (#13537059)
Ethanol is broken down and eventually fed into the TCA cycle. Some useful byproducts are also made. So, yeah, you get some energy out of ethanol. It's a pretty inefficient way to get energy though.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by hinkley on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:04PM (#13537524)
It's an efficient way to get calories up until the year's first harvest though.
Re:Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) by intrasight on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:50PM (#13537452)