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A comment on Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?. Parent comment

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by riskable on Thursday October 13, 2016 @06:37PM (#12704727)
Not only that but a cheap, inexperienced dev can create negative value. Not just in the product that they're working on but your entire brand.

Just ask LinkedIn or Yahoo if it was a good idea to put some ignorant fool in charge of the system that stored passwords. Aside: I'm sure that person is worth more now because they won't make such mistakes (again)!

Rant: Looking towards the future I want to know which ignorant fools are in charge of Microsoft's Active Directory product that is currently shipping with the same damned ignorant mistake (no salt). I mean, seriously guys: How can you allow the product to continue with such a blatant disregard for basic security?!

Microsoft is going to be the next LinkedIn if they don't fix it.

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by uremog on Thursday October 13, 2016 @06:52PM (#12704818)
Bad chefs create negative value just as easily. Wasted ingredients. Bad product that looks ok and leads to unhappy customers. Etc.
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by yomly on Thursday October 13, 2016 @07:08PM (#12704934)
Poor hygiene leading to food poisoning too
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by jobu on Friday October 14, 2016 @10:44AM (#12708386)
This comment made me think of Chipotle. I haven't eaten there since all the food poisoning problems.

Chipotle is a big chain and got national attention for the poisonings, but in the age of Yelp a few people getting sick can tank a small local business.

Better to pay a little more for decent employees that care about their job and also give them benefits so they don't come in sick and spread disease.

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by uremog on Friday October 14, 2016 @11:38AM (#12708783)
Don't you think it's likely to be a supply chain problem in this case though, seeing as multiple locations were affected simultaneously?
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by vonmoltke on Friday October 14, 2016 @11:18AM (#12708641)
> Not only that but a cheap, inexperienced dev can create negative value. Not just in the product that they're working on but your entire brand.

> Just ask LinkedIn or Yahoo if it was a good idea to put some ignorant fool in charge of the system that stored passwords. Aside: I'm sure that person is worth more now because they won't make such mistakes (again)!

Why are you assuming the problems of Yahoo and LinkedIn were caused by cheap, inexperienced developers? From my experience I think the problem was more likely that someone implemented a basic, not-for-production system to scaffold the larger system and was not permitted to change it by management that demanded it be released yesterday.

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by zanny on Thursday October 13, 2016 @06:57PM (#12704851)
Cheap, inexperienced pastry chefs can also ruin a restaurants reputation if they screw up too badly. You get the quality you pay for.
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by riskable on Thursday October 13, 2016 @07:12PM (#12704954)
Ah, but a pastry chef can only disappoint so many customers at once. A single stupid mistake by a software developer can impact millions. The Yahoo leak alone was half a billion users.

That's a lot of dough!

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by jethro_tell on Thursday October 13, 2016 @07:23PM (#12705025)
What do you mean? I don't believe there was much indication that that cost yahoo anything at all? The stock didn't respond. I doubt many customers left. The page rank has not changed. And there is no indication from previous large breaches that the customer cares or at least thinks anyone else is doing it better.

So what leads you to think that the impact to a business (especially of comparable scale) would cause more financial impact if it was your average dev job vs a chef?

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by shagie on Thursday October 13, 2016 @07:44PM (#12705135)
The stock was being held up by Version's offer. They've asked for a discount of 1B, and are considering backing out altogether. The stock will probably respond then.

> "We're looking to Yahoo to demonstrate to us the full impact they believe it's not," Silliman said. If Verizon concludes the breach had a material impact on Yahoo's business, then a key condition of the deal would not be met, he said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/10/13...

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by emodendroket on Thursday October 13, 2016 @08:02PM (#12705233)
Yeah, Yahoo was already dying of attrition anyway. I suspect the majority of those accounts were not active.
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by jethro_tell on Thursday October 13, 2016 @08:43PM (#12705404)
That doesn't affect the alexa ranking. They still have a lot of traffic, and there's no indication it slowed in the month following.
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by coldtea on Friday October 14, 2016 @08:52AM (#12707716)
>Ah, but a pastry chef can only disappoint so many customers at once.

Bad food incidents tend to travel by word of mouth, and they can even hit the papers (bad review etc).

Besides, a pastry place has a much smaller client base than an internet service.

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by emodendroket on Thursday October 13, 2016 @07:59PM (#12705214)
Ask Chipotle if that matters.
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by whyenot on Thursday October 13, 2016 @09:35PM (#12705615)
Are you familiar with Amy's Baking Company? Sometimes disappointing one customer can have catastrophic consequences.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/dining/2015/12/...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy%27s_Baking_Company

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by cbr on Friday October 14, 2016 @06:31AM (#12707175)
They disappointed a lot of customers! It was a pattern of behavior that blew up in their faces, not one incident.
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by lostlogin on Friday October 14, 2016 @04:16AM (#12706738)
Slightly harder to kill or physically harm someone with a software bug though. Bad food can be catastrophic, although fatal results are rare.
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by sgift on Friday October 14, 2016 @04:36AM (#12706795)
Never forget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by lostlogin on Friday October 14, 2016 @04:55AM (#12706865)
This is true and there are others too. However everyone eats, not everyone gets a zap to the brain. The below link suggests nearly 40 million cases of food poisoning and 3,000 deaths per year in the US alone. Obviously that isn't all from pastry chefs, but it's vastly more than I'd have guessed. https://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by riskable on Friday October 14, 2016 @09:22AM (#12707868)
I'd imagine that food-born illnesses are mostly attributed to unclean surfaces at various points in food logistics. From the farm that grows and distributes, say, lettuce to the cutting board and dinnerware used by chefs.

I'd imagine that most restaurants/food distributors employing pastry chefs have other people to do the cleaning. So the likelihood that one could point a proverbial finger at a pastry chef as the source of a food-born illness is probably extremely low.

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by sgift on Friday October 14, 2016 @05:32AM (#12706979)
Interesting statistic. Let's say the 3000 are certainly due to bad chefs. What would be interesting: How many of the 40 million are due to bad chefs? From my own cooking experience I'd say you cannot always say before if some food is bad, so probably "only" a percentage of that 40 million is due to chefs failure, but which percentage ..
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by Figs on Friday October 14, 2016 @07:32AM (#12707402)
I had to call 911 recently, and I was really upset to discover that some idiot had pushed a software update to my phone that replaced the dialer with an "improved" version that changed the way the keypad worked -- in particular, they hid the keypad interface behind a tiny grid icon that I'd never seen before, which made it much harder to figure out how to dial.

If my circumstances had been different, that update could have killed me!

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by dagw on Friday October 14, 2016 @04:56AM (#12706868)
I'm not so sure. I'm the sort of person that quite enjoys going to expensive restaurants and tries to keep up with what's happening in that world. And I've never heard anyone say "don't go to restaurant X, they might have a good wine list and the starters and main courses was great, but their deserts are terrible". At worst they'll say "when you go to X, don't bother ordering deserts".

The truth is that while having a great pastry chef is a really nice perk, for the vast majority of restaurants the quality of the deserts are near the bottom of the list when people priorities which restaurant they want to go to.

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by Fordrus on Friday October 14, 2016 @08:09AM (#12707542)
In terms of reputation, you may well be correct, but then thinking of the restaurant's bottom line, the generally agreed-upon admonition , "Don't bother ordering dessert there," is a devastatingly horrible outcome.
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by dagw on Friday October 14, 2016 @08:30AM (#12707622)
Are desserts that big a part of the bottom line? Surely as long you order drinks and a few courses I doubt the restaurant cares too much one way or the other if you then order desert.

the generally agreed-upon admonition , "Don't bother ordering dessert there," is a devastatingly horrible outcome.

Is it? I would say that about many of my favorite places to eat.

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by ido on Friday October 14, 2016 @08:59AM (#12707742)
There was actually a (NYT article iirc) HN post about it a while back - deserts are apparently often very high margin and main courses loss leaders.

EDIT: apparently I was wrong and it was the other way around! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/02/10/why-r...

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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by Fordrus on Friday October 14, 2016 @10:11AM (#12708161)
With that in mind, my earlier post there, about the devastatingly horrible status of restaurants where desserts become known as bad, well, that's likely inaccurate, I must apologize for being mistaken there! :)
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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by kafkaesq on Friday October 14, 2016 @08:19PM (#12712005)
Just ask LinkedIn or Yahoo if it was a good idea to put some ignorant fool in charge of the system that stored passwords.

Ultimately, the "ignorant fools" responsible for such mishaps are almost always at the management level.

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