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Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by shimon on Monday February 01, 2016 @05:48PM (#11016254)
Google's flagship product is a box that you can type words into, and get relevant texts/references/facts in response. It seems like a textbook example of AI.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by drewrv on Monday February 01, 2016 @05:52PM (#11016282)
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by taneq on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:24PM (#11017108)
Precisely. The image recognition and natural language processing that's "just a deep learning algorithm" today would have blown the socks off anyone ten years ago. Chess playing programs were AI until they could decisively beat all humans, and then we decided that chess doesn't require intelligence. Self-driving cars were AI until they got close to market and now apparently driving a car doesn't require intelligence. It would seem that only True Scotsmen are intelligent.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ubernostrum on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:19AM (#11017744)
Many things would have blown the socks off people of a previous time. That doesn't make them all AI, especially since many of the results we see today are not due to novel techniques a ten-years-ago AI researcher wouldn't have known about, but rather to ten years' worth of advancement in refining the techniques and in the availability of computing power to use those techniques with. A lot of it is just "yeah, if we could've got X to run that fast or had that many processors to throw at it, we'd have had that back then".

So if you want to describe Google as a (insert thing here) company, really the thing to insert in the parentheses would be something like "massive computing infrastructure".

And for better or worse, "AI" is still associated in many people's minds with things that the Google search box isn't close to resembling. People expect an AI to hold a conversation, or be able to reach (and explain) novel conclusions, rather than heuristically guess the next word you'll type (given the computing power, not terribly hard given the informational entropy of human languages) or scan a large database quickly to return the result you asked for. People mostly don't see fast brute-force searching of a problem space, for example, as "intelligence", but that's most of the secret sauce behind game-playing "AI".

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by deciplex on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:38AM (#11017937)
Even within the last six months I've seen very confident posts here to the effect of "an AI that is worth a damn at go is still at least 10 years off".
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ubernostrum on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:29AM (#11018066)
And yet Google's Go-playing approach still doesn't seem to involve fundamentally novel techniques. Most of the advance seems to come in refinements to existing techniques, and being able to throw resources at the problem on a scale nobody had managed before.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by taneq on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @04:11AM (#11018390)
And here is the exact phenomenon we're talking about, in action!

Back when neural nets were "fundamentally novel" we didn't have the understanding or computing power to tap their potential. So they "weren't really AI" because they couldn't do much that was interesting.

Now, we have a better understanding of how to use them, and we have enough computing grunt to make them do really interesting things. But they're "not really AI" because they're "not fundamentally novel."

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ubernostrum on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:48PM (#11021004)
Well, if what we had ten years ago wasn't AI, then what's the argument for "same thing, but running a little faster on better hardware" being AI?
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by adrianN on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @03:07AM (#11018172)
Just like James Watt's steam engine was just a refinement of Thomas Newcomen's model and yet fundamentally changed the industrial landscape in Europe.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by xbmcuser on Wednesday February 03, 2016 @08:30AM (#11026313)
It's not the same thing previously rules were being fed into the computers now data is being fed into the computers and it is understanding or getting the rules by itself and then improving itself based on what it understands. AI wont be created, A day will just come when the algorithms that learn and improve on its own will reach sentience. I expect Google to reach it first simply becuase of the amount data and processing power in the Google servers.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by deciplex on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @03:40AM (#11018284)
> And yet Google's Go-playing approach still doesn't seem to involve fundamentally novel techniques.

So? The fact that it is worth a damn at playing go was unexpected to most people afaict. What do you mean "fundamentally novel", are you expecting the field to advance from cars that barely avoid accidents, to Ava in one fell swoop?

Frankly I would prefer that advancement in AI not occur in sudden unexpected bursts of progress, thanks.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by moonchrome on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:36AM (#11018084)
>The image recognition and natural language processing that's "just a deep learning algorithm" today would have blown the socks off anyone ten years ago

I think the concepts behind this were known 10 years ago - they improved and made it scale/we got the hardware and productized it - but would it really "blow your socks off" ? Hell I'm kind of disappointed at the development speed, I was expecting real personal assistants (not something trivial like Siri) by now.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by taneq on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @06:29AM (#11018831)
10 years ago general purpose image comprehension by computers was nonexistent and Google image search for $word basically just returned images with $word in or mentioned near the URL.

Nowadays you can search for "young einstein" and get 3 pictures of Yahoo Serious and 10 pictures of Albert Einstein as a young man. It still looks like magic to me even though I know a bit about how it works.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ultramancool on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @10:28AM (#11019985)
Yes, where is this blow your socks off natural language processing? Certainly nothing I've ever used has contained it. The best I see is shitty voice recognition which can't understand me 75% of the time and often terrible attempts to chop questions out into search queries.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by dhimes on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:59PM (#11017424)
Don't forget that Facebook is going to be a big player in this game as well- especially facial recognition, where everybody is helping them by tagging people in their photos.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by tajen on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @03:03AM (#11018163)
If we characterize companies as strongly as "Apple, a consumer product company" and "Google an AI company", then Facebook is a worldwide identity tracking agency. They could pivot and be in charge of delivering birth certificates, DNA groups, ethnicity mapping, insurance-bank-police profiling... In fact I expect it to play a very major role in wars to determine targets.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by unprepare on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @07:55AM (#11019126)
you may want to read the book "The Circle" by Dave Eggers. It is about this exact concept, and is quite good (I'm actually only nearly finished with the book, so maybe the ending will suck and i won't recommend it anymore, great so far though!)
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by tinalumfoil on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:43PM (#11017533)
The problem with calling anything AI is that it's such a meaningless word in the context of computers. According to Wikipedia AI is "intelligence exhibited by machines or software" and Merriam Webster define intelligence as "the ability to learn" so I'd say we hit AI long ago. I'd follow the meaning further but I hate arguing definitions.

To put it another way, if we define a Scotsman as anyone born in Scotland and/or related to someone born in Scotland, we've essentially just defined a Scotsman as every organism ever to be alive on Earth.

I have to imagine when the term first started to be used people imagined an AI as something more human than neural networks. Imagine HAL or any other hollywood perceived robot.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by derefr on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:58AM (#11018148)
I take the term AI to mean "a thing that people will actually acknowledge as being AI when it exists"—something that can only be defined retrospectively, but which still is a workable definition in that you can sort of predict what people will or won't want to have "wasted" the eventual definition of the term on.

My personal bet is on people placing that line squarely on the divide between "Stoic Guru" and "Active Academy" UX models[1]. An AI is probably, to most people, an agent that continues to think and learn when it is not being interacted with—by surfing the internet, maybe—such that it can generate novel outputs, and revise its own previous beliefs, with no user-visible step that would be perceived as "re-training." Something that will come to you with thoughts it has had that you'll find relevant, that were inspired by new data the agent has acquired not derived from your input.

A simple example that people would probably think of as "AI" (and which people wouldn't accept as a UX paradigm unless it was presented to them through an agent-based interface) would be a spam filter like GMail's that learns from the classifications of everyone who uses it, that would go back and reclassify messages that it now had a more refined opinion on. Nobody would want a dumb algorithm to take emails that "were" in their inbox and move them over into their spam folder—that's destructive!—but they'd accept a (virtual) secretary using their judgement to do so. Thus, AI.

[1] https://scifiinterfaces.wordpress.com/category/active-academ...

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by jpatokal on Wednesday February 03, 2016 @12:13AM (#11024833)
I think you just described Google Now: https://www.google.com.au/landing/now/
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by animal531 on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @03:12AM (#11018183)
A while ago AI hadn't been complex and deep enough to warrant categories (especially to the layman), so it was just a general moniker put on everything from a smart piece of code with some adaptability all the way through to singularity level computer intelligence (as we'd imagine it). Now we're beginning to realise that there are vast ranges of categories out there, but it will take some time for consensus use to form (especially since a lot of them overlap into what we perceive as general intelligence, which we so far have had difficulty in defining and pinning down)
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by s_kilk on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @05:46AM (#11018682)
The popular understanding of "AI" should really be rebranded as "Synthetic Thought"
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by danharaj on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:05PM (#11017443)
It's more like, we know what 'intelligent' is, but it's hard to quantify, so we try to find problems that we think are at least as hard as 'intelligence'. when we solve those problems and the solutions don't resemble 'intelligence', we move on.

it may be the case that 'intelligent' is just a word used to make humans feel special things about mammalian brains, but it's also consistent that we overestimate the difficulty of the abilities that add up to 'intelligent'. It's the difference between moving the goal posts and having our perspective changed so that we realize that the goal is further away than we thought.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by pjbrunet on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:50AM (#11017961)
"The game of chess, is like a swordfight. You must think first, before you move." -Wu-Tang Clan
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by yunti on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @04:38AM (#11018490)
:)
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by dilemma on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @03:26AM (#11018231)
A computer running a chess program isn't intelligent because it isn't sentient. It is just doing what it's been told to.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by oilywater on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @05:28AM (#11018627)
Yeah, and sentience is a completely made up human thing by which we differentiate betweem ourselves and other non-human animals.

What people want to see is artificial general intelligence, currently that is not possible.

Does running human software on biological hardware make it sentient, or would the same be true on other forms of hardware?

That hardware is just doing what it's been told to.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by taneq on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @06:31AM (#11018834)
Just wait, after machines become unarguably sentient, the only thing for them to fall back on will be "yeah but it doesn't have a soul". :P
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by dilemma on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @05:46AM (#11018681)
The human mind isn't software so you're missing the point.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by stevenhuang on Sunday February 07, 2016 @09:20AM (#11052900)
Actually, the computational theory of mind is well regarded in modern cognitive science: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_theory_of_mind
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by mangeletti on Monday February 01, 2016 @11:03PM (#11017579)
Very interesting. Thanks.

This concept seems to be a direct abstraction of hindsight bias.

In fact, the concept of hindsight bias feels very much like every aspect of life, also. As soon as you build the next great tower, you opt for a new wave of bigger, more powerful enemies (i.e., you level up), and so the solution for the last wave no longer feels that interesting anymore, and thus seems, perhaps, obvious.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by rpgmaker on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:58PM (#11017223)
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by iainmerrick on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:20AM (#11017895)
Even if you forget the whole "where does the money come from?" angle, they're still an ad company: their flagship products are AdWords and AdSense.

OK, to be fair, search is still very important too (in fact the most important content provider for their ad business). So call them a "search and advertising company".

They use machine learning and are actively researching it, but that's true of a lot of companies. Is IBM an AI company?

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by derefr on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:48AM (#11018115)
> Is IBM an AI company?

That's how they've decided to brand themselves, at least (as of ~four months ago): http://adage.com/article/datadriven-marketing/ibm-replaces-s...

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by mcv on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @09:50AM (#11019686)
At Google, AI does seem to unite almost everything they do, from search, image recognition, self-driving cars, and ad placement. Of course all their revenue is from ads, so in revenue, they're an advertising company, but in products, they're an AI company.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by iainmerrick on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @10:57AM (#11020189)
But all that is true of Facebook and Amazon, say.

I'm not saying they don't do AI, I'm just saying it's not their unique focus that sets them apart from other companies. Search-and-ads sets them apart.

You could certainly identify very large datacenters, Big Data and now machine learning as tools that Google have pioneered. But they don't have an exclusive lock on those.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by mcv on Wednesday February 03, 2016 @06:54AM (#11025967)
No, but I think Google goes a lot further with their research and application of AI than Facebook and Amazon. I don't see Facebook and Amazon developing self-driving cars or Deep Dreaming.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by eli_gottlieb on Wednesday February 03, 2016 @09:32AM (#11026585)
So what about Android?

(Said the guy whose work is related to Android...)

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by cowsandmilk on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @08:31AM (#11019300)
but serving appropriate ads can be well served by AI. There may be a question of the increased margin that can come from keyword-based to AI-based ads, but it is there.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by toxican on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @08:45AM (#11019350)
Utilizing/developing AI doesn't define your company as an AI company though. All of that has consistently been second to the advertising. Almost everything they do ties back into their advertising business in someway. They're an advertising company with a lot of (awesome) side projects.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by toomanybeersies on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:43PM (#11016916)
Google's flagship product is an advertising platform, not a search box.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by Reedx on Monday February 01, 2016 @11:49PM (#11017680)
This is an annoying meme. Are concession stands the flagship product of movie theaters?

People use Google for search, email, maps, etc. And that's what the company was built for. If they had a better way to monetize than ads, they would certainly drop ads.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by s_kilk on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @05:50AM (#11018695)
> Are concession stands the flagship product of movie theaters?

Actually, yeah. I worked in cinema (as a projectionist) before getting into tech, and the management definitely saw the food counter as more important than the movies being shown.

The place was run like a fast-food restaurant.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by msh on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:04AM (#11017704)
If that was how they made most of their money, yes.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by rtpg on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:41AM (#11017804)
So is McDonalds a drink company? It makes most of its money from drinks...

The way a company makes its money is only weakly correlated to the service it offers to users. Think about it: if McDonalds stopped selling food, it would not have any customers. If Google stopped offering search, it would not have any users.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by visakanv on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:14AM (#11017879)
If we're going to simplify or generalize, I would simplify McDonald's to being a "sugar and salt" company. Those are the cravings in the human brain that it satisfies.

But yeah, I agree with you. Businesses are more complex than individual touchpoints.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by msh on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:00AM (#11017848)
Google is a ad company who uses search to attract customers.

I don't see the McDonald's reference as the same, drinks are part of their food product. Ads are not a integrated part of search (google did not start out having ads).

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by Drdrdrq on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:07AM (#11018011)
Sure they are - that is what separates AdWords from other advertising platforms.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ivanca on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:20AM (#11017893)
So, if set up a fashion magazine and then I fill it with ads, I'm in the fashion magazines business, or in the ads business?

If someone asks, which of the 2 answers would be more helpful to them?

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by hanspeter on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:02AM (#11018000)
If your magazine starts handling ads in every other publisher's magazines too and then starts handling ads in TV and then starts putting up billboards by the highways, I'd say the answer isn't so obvious.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ryanobjc on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:59AM (#11017846)
actually, movie theaters DO make most their money in concessions.

eg: http://www.businessinsider.com/movie-concessions-drive-amc-e...

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ivanca on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:03AM (#11017857)
Nope. You don't say "Steven Spielberg is in the cinema popcorn-and-soda business", he is in the movie bussines.

Yup don't say "Taylor Swift is in the online concert tickets business", she is in the music business.

McDonald's not in the hamburgers-and-cokes business, its in the fast food business.

Just because it's the way they make money it doesn't mean is the most appropriate classification.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by visakanv on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:12AM (#11017877)
Technically, movie theaters are in the business of selling "movie experiences", which include the movie, the dark room, the chairs, and yes, the concession stands.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by Reedx on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:12AM (#11018021)
True, it's not a perfect analogy. Popcorn is additive to the experience. Even if theaters could survive sans popcorn sales, they'd still keep it because it's part of the experience.

Although originally theaters wanted nothing to do with popcorn: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-do-we-eat-pop...

I was just referring to the fact that theaters make most of their money from concessions, but you wouldn't then call them a concession company. No one would go to a theater just for the concessions. They would (and do) go just for the movie though.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by Stratoscope on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @02:59AM (#11018151)
That's a really interesting article!

> "Movie theaters wanted nothing to do with popcorn," Smith says, "because they were trying to duplicate what was done in real theaters. They had beautiful carpets and rugs and didn't want popcorn being ground into it." Movie theaters were trying to appeal to a highbrow clientele, and didn't want to deal with the distracting trash of concessions—or the distracting noise that snacking during a film would create.

> When films added sound in 1927, the movie theater industry opened itself up to a much wider clientele, since literacy was no longer required to attend films (the titles used [in] early silent films restricted their audience). [emphasis added]

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by bunderbunder on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:16PM (#11017071)
Either way you cut it (search or advertising), Google's flagship product's success depends critically on their ability to do machine learning better than other people.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ehnto on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:09PM (#11017255)
I would be inclined to say search is still their flagship. While advertising is their monetary powerhouse, it is still search that leads their fleet of products as a household name.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by sdenton4 on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:57AM (#11017838)
Nah, Google is a company that turns protobuffers into more differenter protobuffers.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by jankey on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @03:04AM (#11018166)
And this is how you recognize a Googler amongst a crowd.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by nostrademons on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:43PM (#11017353)
Which, even if true, just proves the thread's point. Ads uses a lot more traditional machine-learning/AI techniques than Search does.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by Kequc on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:58PM (#11016991)
Even that one feeds ads it thinks are relevant to you
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by coldtea on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:12PM (#11017059)
And judging from the quality of those feeds, I'd call it AS (artificial stupidity) not AI.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by esun on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:57PM (#11017409)
Well it's smarter than running ads in newspapers, which generated a half-trillion dollars of revenue over a century.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ninkendo on Monday February 01, 2016 @11:59PM (#11017693)
Assuming you're correct, that means the whole market for google's primary revenue source took a century to bring in what Apple makes in 2 years.

Really goes to show how much the market works on the 2nd derivative, and how that can result in immensely disproportionate market caps relative to a company's profitability.

If I were Apple I would think about seriously ramping up the stock buyback at this point. If they keep it up long enough they could even take themselves private one day.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by yunti on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @04:39AM (#11018494)
No the product is search, it's monetised by advertising.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by bitmapbrother on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:30PM (#11017506)
And Apple's flagship product, and responsible for the majority of their income, is a phone trinket made in China.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by adamsea on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:56PM (#11017564)
I would argue that Apple's reputation for quality design - reliability, build quality, simplicity (though these may be changing), along with first-class industrial and UI design - is what drives their products. The definition of a "trinket" is something that is of little value. Material artifacts with the above qualities have always been of value.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by drewda on Monday February 01, 2016 @06:01PM (#11016342)
Google's flagship product, in the sense of revenue, is the text ad ;-)
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by endtime on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:33PM (#11016860)
The text ad which is targeted using AI?
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by coldtea on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:14PM (#11017065)
No, the text ad which is targeted (crudely) using tons of data and some statistical methods.

It ain't gonna pass the Turing test anytime soon, and it's not more of an "AI" product any other product with basic algorithmic based matching is.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by genericpseudo on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:46PM (#11017170)
Google are a company whose core organizing principle is using statistical methods over obscene amounts of data. Apple is a company whose core organizing principle is selling desirable consumer products with class-leading design through the single most impressive physical supply chain in the world.

OP has a point.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by coldtea on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @07:21AM (#11018987)
>whose core organizing principle is using statistical methods over obscene amounts of data.

Sure. And we didn't use to call them "AI companies".

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by endtime on Monday February 01, 2016 @10:51PM (#11017547)
When someone says "Google is an AI company" they're obviously not talking about AGI but about applied stuff like ML and IR.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by coldtea on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @07:25AM (#11019018)
Well, then how about "Google is an ML company"?

Though I fail to see any application of machine learning to write home about in their core business -- ads.

Search yes, they do a good job on that.

But given the amount the data they have on us (browsing history, profile, mails in Gmail) has anybody been that impressed with any targeted ad? I've seen targeted ads from "dummy" networks like the Deck that are 1000% times better for my interests.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by endtime on Wednesday February 03, 2016 @04:23PM (#11029867)
> Well, then how about "Google is an ML company"?

Sure, that's fine, but since ML is generally considered to fall under the AI umbrella your statement is more precise but not more correct.

> Though I fail to see any application of machine learning to write home about in their core business -- ads.

I know basically nothing about our ads (I work for Alphabet), but I believe there is some kind of ML involved.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by snowwrestler on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:30PM (#11017314)
When I buy Google ads I tell Google what search keywords I want my ads to match.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by charlesdenault on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:46PM (#11017366)
Then you're wasting money.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by scarmig on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:01PM (#11017006)
I'm sure this is pretty proprietary information, but I do wonder what the value add of the AI-targeting is. Is it a relatively small bonus on top of a solid platform and audience for ads? Or is it the killer feature?
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by dcw303 on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:50PM (#11017193)
Recently I searched Amazon to read reviews of a book I bought on Kindle a few years ago. Now every website with Amazon affiliate advertising is showing me ads for that book.

Considering that Amazon could have run a simple account search to determine that I am definitely not interested in seeing ads for a product that I already own, I think that the AI-targeting ad revolution is a while off yet.

That is unrelated to Google, but I haven't seen anything there that would suggest they are running anything smarter.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by chm on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:31PM (#11017320)
I have the same experience. On my machine, only Safari is "vanilla" - other browsers have various levels of ad/js blocking. So the only time I see ads is in Safari. I can't believe they're still feeding me Newegg ads for components that I already own and have bought from Newegg. I understand that's not as trivial a problem as it sounds, but I can't help but think companies are overpaying for ads.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ryanobjc on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @01:04AM (#11017861)
i have friends who work for retargeting ad-tech companies. That's those firms that bid for and deliver ads for things you just maybe bought.

The deal is those ads show up when the ad space is the cheapest. It's known as remant inventory. So the retargeters can pick it up for very cheap.

The deal is the companies KNOW that some people see ads for things they already bought. But some people are seeing ads for things like only considered, and bombarding them with ads does affect behavior. The question is, is the increase in revenue worth the cost of retargeting.

The answer is very much yes. Even as it annoys people who already bought it, which doesn't even factor since they already made the revenue from your purchase.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ethbro on Monday February 01, 2016 @11:41PM (#11017669)
To be fair, Google is in the business of making money on ads. If the customer wants to throw money on a stupid ad buy, then that's not particularly their concern.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by rplnt on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @04:02AM (#11018360)
Yep, Google does this exact same thing. I search, I buy, and only then I see ads for a product I already own.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by tveita on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:50PM (#11021029)
It's just as likely that they have done extensive testing and found out that for whatever reason, ads for products you already own still encourage you to buy other stuff.

A lot of assumptions we make don't hold up when you start gathering real data.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ionised on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @10:16AM (#11019894)
I thought their flagship product was advertising space?
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by pessimizer on Monday February 01, 2016 @06:50PM (#11016639)
Is grep AI?
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by peter303 on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:18PM (#11017081)
I prefer using the Stanford term "symbolics systems" for a larger tent that includes AI, but excludes business and scientific computing. Google search would fall into this.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by eru on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:56PM (#11017401)
Symbolics systems seems to only encompass parts of AI that deal with symbolic information. What about modern number heavy machine learning?
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by tempestn on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:09PM (#11016733)
Google search has moved _far_ beyond grep.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by bbq on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:04PM (#11017024)
If you let me know how you use grep to search the internet as effectively as I do with Google, sure!
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by rokhayakebe on Monday February 01, 2016 @08:18PM (#11017080)
Effectively or Efficiently?

I can search the internet way better. Email me what you are looking for and 9 times out of 10 I will send you back something better than what Google will spit out. Furthermore you won't even have to sift through 10 links, or change your search, I will do all this and send you the result back.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by CydeWeys on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:46PM (#11017364)
This is such an incomprehensible boast. Do I think that you might be able to deliver me handpicked results that are better than a Google search? Sure. Can you do it for me in 100ms or better, and at no cost?

What are you even proposing, human search agents? That's absurd.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by falcolas on Monday February 01, 2016 @11:12PM (#11017599)
You say that like Google doesn't employ humans to help make their search results better.

They do. Most companies which build their primary product on some form of heuristics have "domain experts" who help filter the wheat from the chaff.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by rokhayakebe on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:39AM (#11017800)
Do I think that you might be able to deliver me handpicked results that are better than a Google search? Sure.

Ok, so you agree partially.

Can you do it for me in 100ms or better

Not all searches require an immediate reply, so I'll just focus on those. Looking at the list of the most expensive keywords on Google, it is safe to say the vast majority consist of searches that do not necessitate a decision at the moment of the first try. Think Attorney, Insurance, Travel.

and at no cost?

Yes. It is free, and ad supported.

Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by ikawe on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:15PM (#11017278)
I bet you'll use google to do it.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by rokhayakebe on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @12:43AM (#11017806)
Taking the most expensive keywords as a source: Attorneys, Insurance, Travel, etc... I'll use SuperLawyers + Avvo + Yelp for Attorneys. I'll go directly to insurance websites and compare rates. I'll go to Kayak, CheapOAir, Hipmunk and the likes for travel.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by robotresearcher on Monday February 01, 2016 @09:36PM (#11017334)
Using grep?
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by minwcnt5 on Monday February 01, 2016 @07:10PM (#11016744)
No. Obviously.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by rimantas on Monday February 01, 2016 @05:51PM (#11016275)
AI with quickly advancing dementia.
Re:Alphabet Becomes the Most Valuable Public Company in the ... by johnchristopher on Tuesday February 02, 2016 @03:51AM (#11018324)
Apple's flagship product is a box that you can type words into, and get relevant texts/references/facts in response. It seems like a textbook example of AI.