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Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by georgemcbay on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @06:52PM (#8293831)
I don't have any "FU money", but it seems very likely to me that once you have that sort of money, there are only a couple of reasons to run it up any further:

1) You have "Big Plans" that need funding (eg. Elon Musk)

2) Running up the numbers as a life gamification to "beat" your peers, or just because you can't stop chasing yourself, like one of those freak beast weightlifters that looks like a space monster but is addicted to "the gainz" (eg. Larry Elison, et al)

There are only so many houses and planes and boats and experiences you can buy, practically speaking, and at a certain point all your grandkids' grandkids are easily taken care of (should you decide to reproduce, and assuming society stands and the dollar keeps its value, of course).

Interestingly I'm pretty sure Bill Gates started in bucket #2 but moved to #1 at some point later in life, but I think most people stick in one or the other.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by logn on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @09:22PM (#8294393)
Or maybe:

3) you don't want the project to lose its integrity/vision. The dollar amount matters less than finding a fitting buyer at a good enough price.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by DavidBradbury on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @11:13AM (#8296911)
He said:

> once you have that sort of money, there are only a couple of reasons to run it up any further:

Your reply seems to indicate you didn't read what he said, but instead read your own meaning into it. Your #3 doesn't make sense as a reason to "run it up any further".

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by annnnd on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @09:19AM (#8296390)
In that case you shouldn't sell. The buyer might promise you everything, but once the deal is done, he will make his own calls, implement his own vision.

Microsoft can sell Mojang to EA the very next day if they want to.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by bshimmin on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @07:21PM (#8293976)
Now I'm imagining Larry Ellison as a "freak beast weightlifter". Thanks.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by rodgerd on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @07:34PM (#8294039)
Post-steroid Vince McMahon with a beard. HTH.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by peterashford on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @12:43AM (#8294966)
I think I just threw up a little in my mouth
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by blazespin on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @12:54AM (#8294984)
Except for Steve Jobs and a few very rare exceptions, nobody really has a second act. Once you get the FU money, you might as well ride the first act for all it's worth cause that's all you're going to get...
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by oliwary on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @07:50AM (#8296087)
Maybe he wants to get into angel investing?

He briefly though about investing into Psychonauts 2, but dropped out when he realized how much money was involved ($18m). [1] With a couple of hundred million dollars on his bank account he could get interesting and novel AAA games that would never get funding from traditional publishers made.

He even mentions this in [1]: "Perhaps in some distant future when I’m no longer trying to make games, I could get into angel investing."

[1] http://venturebeat.com/2013/02/04/exclusive-minecrafts-notch...

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by jonknee on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @11:58AM (#8297197)
He likely already has a couple hundred million dollars in the bank. He made $100M just in 2012...
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by Houshalter on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @09:13PM (#8294367)
How much would taxes take out of it though? An offer of 2 billion dollars is not equivalent to getting 2 billion in your bank account.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by arjunnarayan on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @10:23PM (#8294577)
For US citizens/residents with billions, taxes are pretty much a constant 25%, since

1. almost everything is capital gains (which comes to 23.6%). Note that this was 15% under GWBush, so it was even better back then.

2. You can avoid state taxes by relocating to WA/TX (If I recall correctly, this was Bezos' motivation for starting Amazon in Washington). A lot of billionaires live in 0% state capital gains tax states, except the ones that need to live in CA/NY for the tech/financial sector respectively. If you live in one of those, then think of the total taxes as more like 33% total (federal + state)

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by Houshalter on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @11:58PM (#8294843)
Notch is Swedish isn't he?
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by rmc on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @05:47AM (#8295751)
IKEA is Swedish as you get, and it's technically a dutch charity.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by hellweaver666 on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @07:13AM (#8295995)
Technically it's controlled by a Dutch not-for-profit organisation (not a charity)
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by bjourne on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @04:53AM (#8295582)
Ingvar Kamprad is too, doesn't prevent him from not paying any taxes. It's not very hard to find exploits in the tax system. Even in the worst case, the corporate tax is 22%.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by Joona on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @12:30AM (#8294935)
His tax rate is probably around 40-50%.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by carlio on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @02:16AM (#8295156)
He's the 4th largest tax payer in Sweden apparently: https://twitter.com/notch/status/410757753737469952
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by T-A on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @01:47AM (#8295111)
This being essentially all capital gains, it would be taxed at 30%.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by otakucode on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @09:29PM (#8294408)
When you are dealing in billions, you don't pay taxes.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by TrevorJ on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @10:15PM (#8294547)
Oh come on. Not even gonna bother to ask you to back that up.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by deciplex on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @12:45AM (#8294968)
He probably won't, so I will (somewhat, he's definitely exaggerating, but probably not as much as you think):

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09in12ms.xls

Effective tax rate plateaus at around a half mil in annual income, then starts going down again after around five million.

I couldn't find any hard data about brackets above that. Didn't Mitt Romney pay around 15%?

Then there's my all-time favorite quote, of Leona Helmsley:

>Only the little people pay taxes.

But, that's only anecdotal, heh :-)

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by lotharbot on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @01:29AM (#8295069)
It's worth noting that annual income above five million is almost definitely coming from investment of both labor and capital (ie, working to manage/direct a business you own, and seeing gains from the value of that business -- or working to manage your stocks and seeing gains from their value) rather than just from labor. This comes with very different risks, including the ability to lose your capital, which is why it's taxed in a very different way.

It's also worth noting that the tax rate for the very rich is still 15%. As far as I can tell, certain very rich people "not paying taxes" is a myth.

Finally, it's worth noting that Notch is not American.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by DanBC on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @02:18AM (#8295167)
The UK has a variety of schemes of tax planning[1], tax avoidance[2], and tax evasion[3]. Using such schemes usually requires someone to be wealthy enough to afford accountants and access to the scheme.

Rich people do have ways of reducing their tax burden, sometimes to surprisingly low amounts.

[1] planning is normal reduction of tax burden and is unlikely to be challenged by tax authorities.

[2] avoidance is legal, but sometimes exploits loopholes in tax laws in weird ways and you might risk the Inland Revenue changing the regulations - sometimes retroactively.

[3] evasion is just illegally not paying tax.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by makomk on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @05:18AM (#8295670)
Many of the recent tax avoidance schemes that celebrities have tried to use in the UK were outright fraudulent - for example, one involved them falsely claiming that they were used car dealers and reporting fictious losses which were large enough to offset their income for the year. Another involved reporting that they'd invested money in UK film production when they hadn't.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by simonh on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @02:44AM (#8295233)
> This comes with very different risks, including the ability to lose your capital, which is why it's taxed in a very different way.

Exactly, there are good reasons for this. The problem is that it would be grossly unfair to tax a small business owner or small investor at say income tax levels because their risks are so much higher. On the other hand a big investor will millions or billions ends up paying the same tax rate as that small business owner or investor, but is able to spread their risk across many investments reducing the overall risk. Yes it would be unfair to tax them at a higher rate for doing fundamentally the same thing - how would we justify one tax rate for one investor in a company, but another rate for this other investor?

Taxation is a hard problem.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by zo1 on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @05:38AM (#8295735)
"Yes it would be unfair to tax them at a higher rate for doing fundamentally the same thing - how would we justify one tax rate for one investor in a company, but another rate for this other investor?"

Because taxation has gone way beyond what it was initially meant to do. That's why it's a hard problem; we're trying to make value and fairness judgements and using that as a basis for applying tax.

To me, personally, people can't claim fairness if they're treating people differently based on their arbitrary value judgements. Until we start treating "fairness" as a universal, with no subjective component.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by boomlinde on Thursday September 11, 2014 @01:44PM (#8303956)
What do you imagine fairness to mean without subjective components? I'd say that value is a subjective concept and I cant think of a definition of fairness that is not based on value.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by icebraining on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @04:33AM (#8295523)
Why can't a small investor spread their investments? Isn't that what index funds are for?
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by refurb on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @12:13PM (#8297297)
Mitt Romney also gave a huge amount of his annual compensation to charity, which reduced his tax rate substantially.

The big reason why the rich guys can lower their tax rates is because they can use investment losses to offset taxes. It's not a loophole, just a tax deduction you can optimize.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by DanBC on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @06:30AM (#8295870)
I'm not sure why he got downvoted so muh. Just read all the threads about Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Vodafone, etc etc who manage to make fucking loads of money while also operating at minimal profit this avoiding / evading large amounts of tax.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by hueving on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @10:45PM (#8294642)
Wow, you are so brave for bringing forward such a revolutionary and controversial statement. I hope you will bless us with your intelligence at every opportunity you get.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by berns on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @07:39PM (#8294056)
Helping others. There is no limit to that.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by javert on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @08:34PM (#8294238)
I bet Bill Gates has a hard time finding enough qualified people to wisely manage the money he is giving away.

For example, if he has someone in charge of spending money on medical research, don't you think there is a point (a few billion) where they just don't know what else to spend money on? I mean, there are only so many medical researchers in the whole world.

Of course you can always just throw money away/at people, but it won't do any good. "Give a man a fish" vs. "teach a man to fish."

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by tstactplsignore on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @09:03PM (#8294338)
No, this isn't really true. The NIH's budget is 30 billion a year, and that funding is already incredibly competitive. Private universities, other government sources such as NSF, NASA, and DoE, and private institutions then in addition spend an amount that dwarfs that number. On top of all of that, the last 6 years have seen cuts, layoffs, and an enormous amount of work go unfunded in the life sciences.

Only about 16% of proposed NIH grants alone are funded each year- we can immediately see from that data that funding all NIH grants in just one year would probably take well over $100 billion.

The life scientists of the U.S. could find a use for Bill Gate's entire fortune in a few years. Not that dropping $80 billion on across the board medical research wouldn't be incredibly, enormously beneficial, but the infrastructure and manpower in the medical sciences are there to be able to absorb it and put it to use.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by jvagner on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @12:47AM (#8294971)
Have you talked to anyone who's been funded by the Gates Foundation? I have. It's rigorous, and very data-intensive. Whatever imaginary cache of research out there that might exist probably couldn't be qualified-up for a GF funding process.

I've done grant funding as well. People say they want money, but the minute you give them a deadline, they're gone, and they can't collect even the merest evidence required for due diligence.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by javert on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @10:20PM (#8294559)
Thank you for an informative comment. That is mind-blowing. At first I was skeptical, but I was able to confirm the $30 billion number [1].

That is about twice as much as NASA [2].

[1] http://www.nih.gov/about/budget.htm

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA#Annual_budget.2C...

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by db48x on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @10:47PM (#8294647)
If they magically funded all of the grants then there wouldn't be enough scientists to do all the work; there's nothing to say that you can't put in more than one proposal at a time.

Edit: well, of course everyone's salaries would go up since there would be so much more demand and no extra supply, but I doubt they could go up that much all at once; most of the money would still go unspent.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by berns on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @10:08PM (#8294522)
> Of course you can always just throw money away/at people, but it won't do any good. "Give a man a fish" vs. "teach a man to fish."

Yes, throwing fish at the poorest is the right thing to do. Malnourished children grow with diminished intellectual capacity. Then it is too late to teach them to fish.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by ultimape on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @01:37PM (#8297804)
Even in the modern world, starvation and low nutrition among schoolchildren is a major problem. https://www.ted.com/talks/ann_cooper_talks_school_lunches
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by wolfgke on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @07:32AM (#8296034)
Better teach the people not to produce children if they can't nourish them.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by DanBC on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @08:06AM (#8296131)
What a horrible, ignorant, comment.

Look at the recent US drought - were people wrong to have had children ten years ago? How were they to know that some areas of the US were going to be in severe multi-year drought?

Why is it different if you change "the US" to some other part of the world?

Have a read of "Too Poor To Farm" which explains some of the problems very poor people face, and explains some of the reasons why very poor people have children.

http://www.irinnews.org/report/94947/lesotho-weather-extreme...

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by cbd1984 on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @12:15PM (#8297312)
The best way to do that is to educate young girls so they grow up into women who don't want to just pump out kids. It happened in the West, it can work elsewhere.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by knd775 on Thursday September 11, 2014 @09:42AM (#8302474)
Unfortunately, in a lot of places there is a regression in this area.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by ekianjo on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @09:54PM (#8294482)
> I bet Bill Gates has a hard time finding enough qualified people to wisely manage the money he is giving away.

That's hardly surprising. Managing money is investing, and wise investment requires a lot of skills, market information, and connections. There's only so many good investors out there.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by JamesBarney on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @11:56PM (#8294839)
I don't think managing a charity successfully and making savvy investment decisions are similar. Investing outside of angel investing/accelerators is fairly close to a zero sum game, and there are many more excellent opportunities from a societal investment perspective in charities than in investing.

Not investing as a whole is a zero sum game but specifically increased levels of investing sophistication and savvy.

Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by Ntrails on Wednesday September 10, 2014 @10:35AM (#8296714)
In general due to fees investing is considered to be a negative sum game.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by JoshTriplett on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @08:49PM (#8294285)
Diminishing returns does apply to some problems, but there are enough researchers in most areas to justify investing hundreds of millions or billions, and for that matter you can fund research grants for students to expand the number of people in that field.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by knodi on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @10:03PM (#8294507)
The thing is money is the best drug known to man. One you get big numbers you never want it to stop. You just keep fighting for bigger and bigger numbers.
Re:Microsoft Near Deal to Buy Minecraft Maker Mojang by jacquesm on Tuesday September 09, 2014 @11:55PM (#8294833)
That's a bug. Consider fixing it.