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Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by untog on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @05:36PM (#8071700)
The iPad clearly isn't going away, but it isn't taking over computing in the way everyone predicted either. If the rumours of Apple making a larger iPhone come true that could hurt iPad sales even more.

Aside from anything else that makes me ponder the wisdom of Microsoft's tablet-heavy focus on Windows 8.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by Fomite on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:04PM (#8071837)
I think people vastly overestimated the growth trajectory of the iPad, and tablets in general. Taking off from zero, it's very easy to see very exciting growth trends and just assume they'll continue.

But any ecologist will tell you that exponential and logistic growth look very similar...until all of a sudden they don't.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by IBM on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:19PM (#8071906)
The iPad grew much faster than the iPhone did in the same amount of time.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by Fomite on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @07:07PM (#8072088)
Which says absolutely nothing about its eventual carrying capacity.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by adventured on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @12:09AM (#8072878)
And extrapolating based on that is exactly why so many have been so wrong about the iPad's growth trajectory and why it's slowing down so rapidly.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by josephlord on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @07:04PM (#8072079)
The iPad was a global product with an existing application base from launch. The first iPhones were geographically (and operator) limited and didn't even support 3rd party apps.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by IBM on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @07:21PM (#8072132)
But also without subsidies and a limited selection of iPad specific apps as well as less of a defined role in between smartphones and PCs.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by kevinali1 on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @10:22AM (#8074487)
Correct about the apps. But they were not geographically or operator limited. From the beginning, they were used around the world on any service.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by josephlord on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @10:26AM (#8074512)
Are you sure? I thought that the first iPhone was only sold by AT&T in the US at least initially?

I'm pretty sure that they weren't sold outside the US at least to start with.

Wikipedia says this[0]:

Jobs unveiled the iPhone to the public on January 9, 2007, at the Macworld 2007 convention at the Moscone Center in San Francisco.[34] The two initial models, a 4 GB model priced at US$ 499 and an 8 GB model at US$ 599, went on sale in the United States on June 29, 2007, at 6:00 pm local time, while hundreds of customers lined up outside the stores nationwide.[35] The passionate reaction to the launch of the iPhone resulted in sections of the media dubbing it the 'Jesus phone'.[36][37] Following this successful release in the US, the first generation iPhone was made available in the UK, France, and Germany in November 2007, and Ireland and Austria in the spring of 2008.

On July 11, 2008, Apple released the iPhone 3G in twenty-two countries, including the original six.[38] Apple released the iPhone 3G in upwards of eighty countries and territories.[39] Apple announced the iPhone 3GS on June 8, 2009, along with plans to release it later in June, July, and August, starting with the US, Canada and major European countries on June 19.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphone#History_and_availability

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by kevinali1 on Thursday July 24, 2014 @05:11PM (#8082217)
Officially, yes. But you could still get it to work on your home network outside the US if you wanted to. Just wouldn't get data.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by Someone1234 on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @05:44PM (#8071739)
> If the rumours of Apple making a larger iPhone come true that could hurt iPad sales even more.

I don't really see that. I own a Galaxy Note (read: HUGE phone) and yet I still own a tablet. A larger iPhone won't be as large as the Galaxy Note, it just isn't Apple's way, at most it will be similar to the Galaxy S5.

To me the iPad has a niche that it covers (e.g. reading books, larger "table" games, etc) and even a large iPhone won't cut into that business much. Even if the iPhone was Galaxy Note sized I'd still buy an iPad, only maybe one single use case would shift and that is a minor one.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by untog on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @05:50PM (#8071763)
I'm not sure you/we are typical, though. Do non-tech folks really spend $500 on a device to read books and play table games? If you were into reading, at least, I'd imagine you'd be picking up a considerably cheaper Kindle instead.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by gutnor on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:12PM (#8071872)
Well older people like a larger screen. The iPad is nice to provide your family with a Skype/Photo station, a easy to use browser and some small goodies ( whatever apps, or books )

Around me (lots of expats with kids) the iPad is a killer to give your family back home instant connectivity in as much maintenance free and foolproof package as you can get. ( no cable, no malware, no driver, understood and supported by your internet provider, always on, minimal learning curve )

My point of view is the opposite, how is it useful at all for tech people. I never found any business case where either laptop, desktop or smartphone was not more convenient (the exception is reading, but I'm part of that minority that prefer to read on their smartphone)

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by tjl on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @10:29PM (#8072629)
We got my father an iPad for Christmas, mainly for reading (although he uses it for games now too). He very explicitly didn't want an e-reader. He liked the screen much better and found it easier to read. My mother has a Kobo (and my sister a Kindle) so he knew what those were like. My sister has since bought an iPad Mini. She uses it for a number of things, including yoga videos when she's not at home.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by Someone1234 on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:04PM (#8071836)
Then what, may I ask, do you think people use their iPads for? Because last I checked they were content consumption devices (books, apps, movies, etc). However a lot of that content doesn't directly translate to the iPhone (e.g. books, movies, and some larger games/app which won't work on smaller screens).
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by WaxProlix on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:00PM (#8071814)
I bought a Kindle Paperwhite recently and realized I enjoy reading on my phone almost as much. Made me kind of want a tablet, actually.

I remember getting a tablet a while ago with a Pixel Qi screen that essentially doubled as an e-reader... wonder where that technology (and the Qualcomm Mirasol etc) all went.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by izacus on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:03PM (#8071831)
Yes, actually they do - but the thing is, they don't replace them as often as phones.

iPad 2 is still a good device for reading and browsing the internet - hence people just don't throw it in the trash after 2 years and buy a new one like phones.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by simonh on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @05:47AM (#8073525)
The problem is that iPads keep on going, and going, and going. They're incredibly robust. They start with a long battery life leaving plenty of room for battery decay while still having useful run times. Current apps generally run fine on older devices. Even when they don't an old iPad can still perform many useful functions such as email, video playback, maps, reading ebooks or pdfs, web browsing and slightly older or casual games.

It's beginning to look like their average useful life is far longer than that of a Phone and also longer than a desktop or laptop. As a result the replacement rate may be fairly low. I'm in the market for another iPhone this year due to contract exipiry, but my household has reached iPad saturation. The kid's Minis are still going strong and we bought an Air last year after giving our '2' to a relative and it's still going strong too. It's hard to see when or why we'd need to get a new ipad as long as any of our current ones still work. That's probably another 3 years at least, possibly 5.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by IBM on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:18PM (#8071899)
The iPad is going to incrementally get better and more capable (in terms of specs and software) at a much faster rate than PCs will. Some OEMs have left the PC business and others are under-investing in it given the trend in the PC market. Even Intel has delayed Broadwell which is likely a result of trying to control CapEx (they certainly cancelled a new factory recently because of it). I think in the fullness of time the iPad will gain at the expense of PCs, they're just much more pleasurable and approachable for most people (and I can imagine a scenario where an iPad would dock with a typical monitor and keyboard setup and be powerful enough to handle most "heavier" computing tasks for people).

Tim Cook mentioned that in emerging markets iPads grow much faster and that's likely because it is their main computer.

Also I don't think Apple is too worried about a larger iPhone cannibalizing iPads. A larger iPhone would likely sell for $750 (for 5.5 inches) which is much more than most people spend on an iPad and likely carries higher margins.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by fpgeek on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @10:43PM (#8072665)
> Tim Cook mentioned that in emerging markets iPads grow much faster and that's likely because it is their main computer.

In emerging markets, the most common "main computer" isn't a tablet, it's a smartphone, by a mile. That points directly at the iPad's huge emerging-markets weakness. A "good enough" phablet (or even just a cellular tablet since many enable phone capability outside the US) can be both more useful and cheaper than an iPad + phone (let alone smartphone) combination. That seriously limits the iPad's addressable market in a way you don't see in the developed world (where more generous budget constraints and sometimes phone subsidies change the tradeoffs).

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by IBM on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @12:10AM (#8072880)
They appear to be wealthy enough for the iPad because according to Apple emerging markets are outpacing the developed markets.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by TheAnimus on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @05:42AM (#8073512)
The branding there is incredibly strong.

Some friends of mine in Vietnam run a shop, in Hoi An. They make a comfortable for local standards income, but after tax rates and costs they will have about $10k a year, not to be sniffed at, but still, not amazing income. A younger sister wanted an iPhone, it was a running joke that if she bought one, she would be sleeping out in the pig sty, the 'adults' (those over 20) consider such things excessive waste of money, but she being 17 decided to spend her 3 months wage on a second hand iPhone 4. This isn't un-common, her peer group all feel the need of it. She could have had something like a Nokia 620 which has all the apps she uses anyway, for a fraction of the price and it would have the benefit of new battery life performance.

Hell I've seen shoes with the Apple logo put on them[0] there is most definitely a lot of brand power and loyalty in Vietnam and China. If they can ensure that people end up with the 'correct' Apple and not a nock off, they could do quite well. The fact that kids know how to tell the real iPhone from the fact clones is enough, as they create peer pressure for the real thing.

So yes, I can see Apple benefiting from a bunch of people in the emerging markets feeling they've 'made it' when they can afford an iPad, they still are a long way of affording a car.

[0] http://imgur.com/GlwsA5d

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by untog on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @12:17AM (#8072898)
That isn't a great metric without examining the pace of sales in the developed world, so you know what you're comparing. And has no connection to phone sales.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by codeulike on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:36PM (#8071971)
I can imagine a scenario where an iPad would dock with a typical monitor and keyboard setup and be powerful enough to handle most "heavier" computing tasks for people

So then the question is - why have a separate OS for tablets as compared to laptops? The current reason is not so much to do with the UI but more to do with management of limited resources. OS's like iOS and Android are very aggressive about preserving memory and processor cycles as a way of squeezing extra life out of batteries.

On phones that different-OS resource advantage will probably continue. But on tablets, its less clear. As the intel chips get better at low power, a tablet running a 'full fat' operating system becomes more feasible.

This is what the Surface Pro 3 shows, whatever you think of it as a device: You _can_ run a full OS on a powerful processor in a fairly thin, fairly light tablet. Not the thinnest, and not the lightest, but still it raises the question: Why do tablets need a different OS?

Microsoft are tackling that question now, I think Apple will ultimately need to tackle it as well.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by wvenable on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @10:36PM (#8072651)
> Why do tablets need a different OS?

Honestly I think primary reason that iOS tablets have been successful is because they have a different OS. Fundamentally iOS is far less capable but also far less difficult to use and fragile than a full-fledged OS. A tablet is less PC and more consumer electronics. And that's not a hardware distinction, it's a software distinction.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by IBM on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:43PM (#8072006)
In my scenario I imagine the iPad customer as primarily getting their computing done on the tablet but having the option to use a larger screen for certain edge cases (mostly to illustrate the increase in capability over time). I don't think tablets will completely subsume PCs and that PCs will have a role to play for people who actually need it. Having a separate OS designed for that interaction model will net an overall better experience without having to make compromises in some way.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by eevilspock on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @07:33PM (#8072176)
"The current reason is not so much to do with the UI"

It has a great deal to do with UI.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by codeulike on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @07:47PM (#8072215)
I disagree. Layering a new UI on top of an existing OS is a lot of work, but ultimately thats all it is - another layer. What iOS and Android do that is fundamentally different to OSX and other desktop OSs is not so much to do with the UI, its to do with quickly killing or hibernating any process that isn't being used right at that time.

When you learn to write an app for iOS or Android, the first thing you learn is that your app needs to be ready to freeze and save state at a moments notice, and then re-hydrate itself later, also at a moments notice. This is the fundamental difference in the OS, not the touchscreen and widgets.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by anextio on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @10:08PM (#8072585)
This app-nap functionality is available in OS X too so long as the app implements the correct APIs, which many do. This was introduced in 10.8 as part of their performance effort I believe.

This is seen in OS X when an app window appears greyed out with a progress spinner in the center. The app may start out in this state if the machine was hibernated, or it may go into this state if it is open but it fits certain criteria, like all its windows being occluded by others. When this happens, the process is killed.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by Gustomaximus on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @12:24AM (#8072910)
A great project tacking this now. I am really hopeful for them but suspect they will be an early technology superceeded by MS/Apple when they realise the market demand for this is now:

http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/ubuntu-for-android

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by pjmlp on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:33PM (#8071960)
> Tim Cook mentioned that in emerging markets iPads grow much faster and that's likely because it is their main computer.

Where do they get the money from?

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by phr4ts on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @09:36PM (#8072491)
This is a valid question. From first hand experience, at least in the short term - gadgets above $400 would remain niche in third-world countries.

Unless... get its hands dirty by taking control of its refurbished and older generation products for developing markets.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by curiouscats on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @01:14AM (#8073006)
China alone has more people that can afford an expensive phone/tablet than can in the USA (the USA has a higher % that can). India likely has more than the USA, if not they will in 5 years. Indonesia has many people that can…

The percentage of income spent on such gadgets (and cell phone plans) etc. is much higher for most customers in the non rich countries (essentially OECD) but those non-rich countries have over a billion people that are willing to spend a lot of money on gadgets.

And beyond those spending a lot of there money on gadgets in non-rich countries, there are hundreds of millions that are actually wealthy even in comparison to the USA in China, India, Indonesia, Brazil, Thailand etc.. The countries economies are changing amazingly quickly. Overall many are still extremely poor but many are also as rich enough to be above median income in the USA.

I am pretty sure there are way more people above median USA income outside the rich countries North America, Europe, Japan (and go ahead and include Korea, Australia and New Zealand) than live in those rich countries.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @10:34PM (#8072647)
Emerging markets != 3rd world countries. Cook is referring to China, and there is plenty of money here. I believe their Sanlitun store in Beijing has the highest per-day gross of any other store in the world. And they have just begun to make inroads in 2nd and 3rd tier cities, where there is also money.

India also has an emerging middle class, though nothing like China yet.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by eevilspock on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @07:39PM (#8072190)
Tablets are cheaper than current laptops in almost every way:

- hardware cheaper

- software is cheaper

- cost of ownership is cheaper (time spent keeping it working, security costs, etc)

- tend to be cloud oriented, and cloud services are often free.

All of the above applies to Chromebooks, which are laptops of course.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by IBM on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:36PM (#8071972)
Work I presume.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by stock_toaster on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @02:36AM (#8073165)
The ipad also seems to be growing in point of sale and backend warehouse usage.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by smackfu on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @05:43PM (#8071737)
Yeah, it feels like people wanted the iPad to be the next iPhone, to fuel continued growth. But it may just hang out at that 15% of revenue, like the Mac, and it's ups and downs just don't matter that much to the overall picture.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by debt on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @05:55PM (#8071794)
I think people just want enough computing power(not tablets or desktops) to plug in and join in on the internet fun. They also want a screen just large enough(not too large, no ipads) to properly enjoy media content.

Thus I think a slightly larger iPhone screen(given their higher resolutions compared to competitors) will be the sweet spot. It'll likely dominate older iPhone models pretty quickly and cannibalize iPad sales.

It will likely be cheaper but still retain it's appeal to the upper class as a status symbol(people can trot around with their new larger iPhone).

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by baddox on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:25PM (#8071931)
I wouldn't say that the smartphone industry is converging on some single ideal form factor or feature set. I think everything is just changing because people want things that are new and different. For the last 2 years, phone screens have obviously been getting larger, and it looks like even Apple is caving in on that. But I wouldn't be surprised if, in the next two years, there's a new trend of making phones amazingly small again. First it's "look how much bigger our screens are than last year's phones!" and then it's "look how much more compact our phones are than last year's phones!"
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by api on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:08PM (#8071853)
Why would it? I have one. It's a great tool for reading, watching movies, replying to e-mails, etc. but you can't do real work on it. It's not just the small screen and interface but also the heavily restricted OS that can only run a small subset of apps (with lots of rules like 'no emulation').

Desktop won't go away unless iOS and Android grow to encompass desktop functionality and flexibility.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by grecy on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @07:12PM (#8072106)
> If the rumours of Apple making a larger iPhone come true that could hurt iPad sales even more.

And when the iPad first came out, it hurt iPhone sales a lot. Apple call this "cannibalization" and they've stated many, many times they don't care one bit about it.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @10:36PM (#8072653)
The iPad hurt iPod touch sales alot, not really iPhone sales.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by fpgeek on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @10:51PM (#8072681)
That wasn't GP's point. Whether Apple cares or not, if a larger iPhone hurts iPad sales, that's another reduction in the potential scope of tablet computing.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by grecy on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @01:43AM (#8073077)
I would argue that a larger (than current) iPhone, which will be smaller (than current) iPad, running entirely identical software is tablet computing.
Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by fpgeek on Wednesday July 23, 2014 @07:50AM (#8073823)
Why would you expect a larger (than current) iPhone to be running iPad apps?

Even a 5.5 inch iPhone would be closer in aspect ratio and size to a 16:9 4 inch iPhone than it would be to a 4:3 7.9 inch iPad Mini (let alone a full-size iPad). to me, that makes it obvious it would run scaled-up iPhone apps, not scaled-down iPad apps. In other words, a larger iPhone will clearly be on the "phone" side of the phone/tablet line.

If you want to argue that it is all a continuum and that the scope of touch-based computing hasn't changed, I'd agree with that. But in a thread that started by talking about iPhones, iPads and Windows 8, "tablet computing" is more specific than that.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by pjmlp on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:32PM (#8071953)
Microsoft's approach to tablets is the best one.

I want a laptop with a detachable touch screen, not a consumer device.

Plus it is the only one that allows to target itself for software development, without any constraints or relying in a server stuck somewhere.

Re:Apple Reports Third Quarter Results by sirkneeland on Tuesday July 22, 2014 @06:46PM (#8072020)
It's more fair to say it's the best one for you.

I imagine there will be multiple general types of tablets that apply to different needs.

I have an iPad and a Dell XPS 12 hybrid and they're both great for different things.