News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by snprbob86 on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:54PM (#782941)
Even in marketting copy, Apple's design taste is unrivaled:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/

I mean seriously, how many levels of tabs are too many?

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/features/whats-ne...

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by unalone on Monday August 24, 2009 @05:03PM (#783347)
Apple's marketing is an added feature. I get a lot of joy looking through their ad copy, in a way that I get out of very few marketing departments'.

I always wonder why Microsoft is so bad at advertising. They're not a stupid company. They create products that are nearly always good, if rarely (in my opinion) great. But they've never shown any sort of strength-of-focus and they make things that are ugly. I don't get it. In cases like this, it's easier to make something that's stark and simple than it is to make something cluttered and unappealing.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by wmeredith on Monday August 24, 2009 @05:22PM (#783404)
The difference you're seeing is design that's driven by an individual with a single strong voice versus a committee. For clarification, I'm saying that Steve Jobs designed this web page, but whoever did was someone with the authority and the balls to say, "no" over and over to many different people. Those Windows 7 pages reek of too many cooks in the kitchen and/or lack of leadership.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by snprbob86 on Monday August 24, 2009 @06:39PM (#783575)
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by cpr on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:05AM (#782122)
http://www.apple.com/macosx/refinements/ for all those who claims it's just a service pack.

But, as I said elsewhere, the major improvements are under the hood.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by johns on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:29AM (#782182)
As a non Mac OS user, that link just reinforces to me that it looks like just a service pack. But at $29, I don't think it matters. If it were $129, that would be ridiculous.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by cpr on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:42AM (#782219)
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by umjames on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:41AM (#782214)
As a user, yes, but as a developer, there's some really awesome stuff in this release (both from the perspectives of the apps being developed and from the tools used to build them). Can't wait.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by tjweir on Monday August 24, 2009 @04:58PM (#783336)
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by dny on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:16PM (#782834)
The first OS and computer that is fully accessible out of the box. http://www.apple.com/macosx/universal-access/

I can't believe it has been considered important enough to be one of the major features of Snow Leopard, I am so happy for the blind and visually impaired. They did it with the new iPhone the first commercialized accessible touchscreen and they are doing it again with the new Mac OS. Apple is the most innovative tech company there is no doubt about it.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by sant0sk1 on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:55AM (#782001)
Nice to see Apple shipping before their publicized time frame (September). A rarity.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by prakash on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:25AM (#782050)
The other way to look at this is that Apple gave themselves plenty of buffer to ship.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by raganwald on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:28AM (#782056)
True, but unlike practically everyone else they didn't allow their work to fit the expanded time available. Everyone builds in buffers and pads their estimates, but few people are able to work to their original true estimate.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by JeremyChase on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:49AM (#782091)
OpenBSD has done it 26 times in a row:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/07/16/2322203/Why-OpenBSDs...

PS: This article was written before 4.6 has was minted; it will actually be released a full month early.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by dylanz on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:09PM (#782445)
I wish other companies would follow OpenBSD, in regard to releases, package management, etc. Their community is awesome. Abrasive at times... but awesome ;)
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by raganwald on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:08AM (#782130)
Well done OpenBSD contributors and stewards!
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by prakash on Monday August 24, 2009 @03:29PM (#783040)
True, but unlike practically everyone else they didn't allow their work to fit the expanded time available.

Again, how do we know they didn't account for it when they buffered initially? Maybe they had a different internal timeline (end of aug) vs. an external timeline.

Only way to know is if one is in the Snow Leopard team or has access to that kind of info.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by raganwald on Monday August 24, 2009 @04:51PM (#783321)
> how do we know they didn't account for it when they buffered initially? Maybe they had a different internal timeline (end of aug) vs. an external timeline.

If they were like practically everyone else in this wacky industry, they would be late for the internal timeline but not worry about it because the external timeline is the one that matters. Thus, there would be very little pressure to meet the internal timeline and a lot of pressure to meet the external timeline. Worse, they would wind up being late for the external timeline as well as the internal timeline.

For example, if someone wanted to add a feature to Snow Leopard, the dev team might say "we can't make our internal schedule if we add this." But some product manager would say "well, will you still make the external schedule?" and bang they would start to slip.

If they had an internal schedule and managed to stick to it I believe they are an exception to how software is usually developed.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by siculars on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:56AM (#782010)
just ordered the family box set. better deal, imho.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MACBOX-101801 click the family pack option...

Also, there is no difference in price when purchasing under the education store, afaik.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by bcl on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:30AM (#782188)
I really like the Apple Family pack pricing. I almost never buy a single copy anymore.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by far33d on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:48AM (#782234)
Can someone give a quick non-marketing-speak version of what Grand Central Dispatch really does?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by Hoff on Monday August 24, 2009 @11:15AM (#782302)
GCD is an updated and up-rated scheduler for Mac OS X.

The following does contain marketeering, but also has some decent technical details:

http://images.apple.com/macosx/technology/docs/GrandCentral_...

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by scott_s on Monday August 24, 2009 @11:54AM (#782399)
While I'm sure the scheduler had to be changed to accommodate it, it's not primarily a new scheduler. It's really a sophisticated thread pool system implemented in the kernel and exposed to programmers through language extensions.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_pool_pattern for the basics on the idea - which has been around for a long time.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by far33d on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:33PM (#782508)
Thanks - this makes more sense. Just a scheduler wouldn't explain how "With GCD, threads are handled by the operating system, not by individual applications. GCD-enabled programs can automatically distribute their work across all available cores, resulting in the best possible performance whether they’re running on a dual-core Mac mini, an 8-core Mac Pro, or anything in between."
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by ajross on Monday August 24, 2009 @05:25PM (#783410)
Yeah, that sounds about right. It's a thread API that relies on applications providing "blocks" of work to the OS, and transferring their arguments and results around in message queues. So if you have five applications running, each of which has 8 threads to handle the needed parallelism on a Nehalem box, you don't need 40 separate threads and their stacks. The OS just spawns 8 threads.

That sounds OK, if kinda unexciting. I'd like to see some benchmarks vs. traditional threading before I commit to liking it. History is littered with cute new IPC mechanisms that didn't turn out to have the benefits promised. This sounds a lot like a combination of sysv message queues and solaris doors, neither of which managed to drive much real innovation.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by scott_s on Monday August 24, 2009 @05:42PM (#783459)
The thread pool approach allows you to exploit much finer grain parallelism than explicitly fork/joining your own threads. So, an application that makes good use of this would probably have hundreds, if not thousands, of discrete work tasks (which I normally call "units of work," but Apple calls "blocks.")

What a thread pool infrastructure buys us is the separation of tasks (the bundle of information passed around the queues) from their execution context (in this case, a kernel thread). It puts a level of abstraction between what is executed and how that's executed.

At the risk of belaboring a point, this is an old idea - this is traditional multithreading. Java has a library for doing it, as does C++ (in Boost). A library for this kind of parallelism was, in fact, the first C++ library, written by Stroustrup. Even the Linux kernel uses this technique internally (by which I mean it's not exposed to applications at the user level). Cilk (the MIT project that spawned the company Cilk Arts which was recently acquired by Intel) is probably the best known example of providing language-level abstractions for this technique. (I reccomend their paper "The Implemention of the Cilk-5 Multithreaded Language": http://supertech.csail.mit.edu/papers/cilk5.pdf)

By pointing out that this is an old idea, I don't mean to denigrate what Apple has done. Execution matters, and from the looks of it, they've executed this well - they've got something working at the language and kernel level, which is non-trivial.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by cubicle67 on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:53AM (#782251)
something to do with phonecalls I think...

Actually (and I'll hide my lack of knowledge by being vague) it's a means of making it easier for developers to create robust multicore capable software. I think.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by rbanffy on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:53PM (#782747)
I am quite surprised no other operating system has something like GCD. Is that MarketingSpeak or is it really something new?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by prospero on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:27PM (#782870)
.NET has had runtime-wide thread pools since its inception. Unless there's something fundamental about GCD that I'm missing, that puts Windows at least 7 years ahead of OSX on this count.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by rbanffy on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:32PM (#782883)
Well... Java had them (in almost every OS it ran on) since day 1 too. That puts it a couple years ahead of .NET
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by pohl on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:49PM (#782929)
I think the point of GCD is that the concept is being brought down to the C, C++, and Objective-C layers, through the introduction of "blocks"...

http://www.mikeash.com/?page=pyblog/friday-qa-2008-12-26.htm...

http://www.mikeash.com/?page=pyblog/friday-qa-2009-08-14-pra...

I agree there's too much marketing hype surrounding GCD, but neither the CLR nor the JVM can jump through that particular hoop.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by rbanffy on Monday August 24, 2009 @04:50PM (#783317)
It's interesting. For the little I have seen (and I was only able to give it a quick glance) it includes syntactic support for multi-threading being built into their Objective-C compiler.

Are they forking the Objective-C compiler?

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by wmf on Monday August 24, 2009 @05:53PM (#783476)
Apple has been shipping forks of GCC forever. In the future they won't have to fork clang because they own it.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by pohl on Monday August 24, 2009 @05:56PM (#783486)
Chris Lattner's first paragraph here talks about that a bit, although it doesn't give a timeframe for when the gcc implementation will make its way back to the main distribution:

http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-dev/2008-August/00267...

Although, there's a comment by Johannes Fortmann here that says that the code has been available in an svn repository since at least September 5, 2008:

http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/08/blocksclosures-for-c/

"If you check out the llvm-gcc svn trunk, you’ll find all the code there (you can even build your own llvm-gcc with working blocks)."

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by jdagostino on Monday August 24, 2009 @05:56PM (#783488)
They are investing in heavily in llvm which they hope to replace gcc with in the future.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by prospero on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:36PM (#782890)
Sure. I'm not trying to say that Windows was ahead of its time, but rather that Apple seems to be making a big deal out of a feature I'm kind of shocked they didn't already have.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by rbanffy on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:46PM (#782919)
Same here. I am astonished no student added something like this to BSD in the late 80s ;-)
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by c00p3r on Monday August 24, 2009 @05:45PM (#783462)
llvm-gcc?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by feverishaaron on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:01AM (#782116)
Anyone know how those of us who bought an mac recently get it for $10? I didn't see a link on that page.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by mwijns on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:04AM (#782120)
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by feverishaaron on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:06PM (#782435)
FYI, as of right now, they aren't passing the info from the verification screen to the cart correctly, so you have to use the fax-in form.

http://images.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/docs/OSX_HW_UTD_FF.p...

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by bittersweet on Monday August 24, 2009 @03:33PM (#783060)
I am having the same problem on the European (Dutch) store as well when I followed the link to computers bought on the Apple store itself.

When I follow the link for computers bought via a reseller it works without a problem.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by there on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:17PM (#782628)
i just ordered it through their website after qualifying my recent macbook pro. it worked fine and i didn't have to fax anything.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by feverishaaron on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:14AM (#782141)
Thanks. Just found it as well.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by kasterma on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:29AM (#782184)
Requires: Mac computer with an Intel processor. No upgrade for my 12" powerbook. :-(

http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by brk on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:09PM (#782447)
This is a surprise? I think that lack of support for the PPC Mac's has been pretty well known for some time now.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by philfreo on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:05PM (#782593)
I think the removal of PowerPC support is why the OS is now something like 6 or 7GB smaller than before.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by dchest on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:36PM (#782697)
The same mistake, again and again. Please read http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=747316
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by Zev on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:10PM (#782810)
But it then adds in x86_64 support, which brings the size back up. The smaller files are likely to be from not installing all the resources (localizations, drivers, etc) at once if not needed.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by imajes on Monday August 24, 2009 @11:43PM (#784086)
it no longer ships with printer drivers i think - these are now supported by the software update mechanism that keeps os x up to date.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by dchest on Tuesday August 25, 2009 @11:16AM (#785000)
Localizations are there.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by FiveFiftyOne on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:20AM (#782155)
I'll get it and pray that the Exchange integration makes using Mail and iCal a little smoother. Besides, I just like upgrading to new releases :-)
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by cubicle67 on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:47AM (#782229)
Note: Exchange 2007 only
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by stewiecat on Tuesday August 25, 2009 @07:44AM (#784629)
If I can dump Entourage the $29 will be more than worth it.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by mdasen on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:46AM (#781981)
May I ask how it is "now available"? From the site, it says that it will be delivered Friday. Did Apple not update the page this links to? Is this an "it's available for purchase now for delivery later" post that the headline is misleading me on?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by mrduncan on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:51AM (#781991)
Fair point, I've updated the headline to reflect the delivery date.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by sho on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:23PM (#782653)
Oh, it's "now available" all right. Might not be 100% legal in your jurisdiction, though.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by donw on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:24PM (#782657)
Anybody know if you can install this on a clean hard drive? I've got Leopard on my MacBook, but want to swap out the existing drive and start fresh on a new SSD. Would be nice to not have to do a Leopard -> Snow Leopard dance.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by potatolicious on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:30PM (#782681)
Apple doesn't do "upgrades" - if you bought a retail copy it will install fresh on any Intel Mac.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by dchest on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:46PM (#782729)
Technically, it does (cheap upgrade copy of Tiger for those, who purchased Mac with Panther after the announcement of Tiger, required Panther). Still, I believe it's true that you can do a fresh install.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by m_eiman on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:45AM (#781980)
What's with the query string on the link, is that an affiliate identifier? The link works just fine without it, in either case.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by mrduncan on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:54AM (#781995)
No, not an affiliate id I simply copied the url straight out of my address bar - I'm guessing it's a session id or something.

Here is the id-less link for anyone who doesn't believe me (I can't change the url of the post unfortunately): http://store.apple.com/us/product/MAC_OS_X_SNGL

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by natrius on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:06PM (#782433)
If it were an affiliate ID, I don't see why it would matter.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by jamesbritt on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:03PM (#782588)
Does anyone know if installing Snow Leopard requires the user to agree to allow Apple to collect unspecified user data?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by uggedal on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:42AM (#781975)
What about those stuck on Tiger (my gf)? Buy Leopard and Snow Leopard update or buy a full version?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by stuff4ben on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:06AM (#782024)
I'm still on Tiger and I'm probably not going to upgrade. I have a first-gen "lapburner" MBP which works just fine. Leopard didn't really offer anything ground breaking and it doesn't appear Snow Leopard will either. And I figure anything ground-breaking will require newer hardware, so I guess I'll stay on Tiger until the machine stops working. Which coincidentally is also why XP users don't upgrade either.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by tptacek on Monday August 24, 2009 @11:41AM (#782364)
Insanity. Before Leopard, Spotlight was a debacle. After Leopard, it just works. Also: isn't there a whole lot of software you can't install now because Tiger doesn't have Core Animation and isn't LP64?

I also wouldn't trust Tiger security on an external network.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by boucher on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:11PM (#782454)
Every security update Apple ships for Leopard it also ships for Tiger.

And I preferred spotlight in 10.4. In fact, 10.4 was all around a much better OS than 10.5, which was the first update to Mac OS X that felt like a step backwards.

Of course, I'll be updating to 10.6 as soon as I can get my hands on it. If nothing else, the promise of a 10.5 that doesn't suck is worth it. To be fair, 10.5 is much better now then when it shipped. When it shipped, it was terrible.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by tptacek on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:58PM (#782952)
You're making the assumptions that every security flaw fixed was:

(a) intentionally, knowingly fixed

(b) disclosed.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by unalone on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:16PM (#782835)
How was it a step backwards? Mind you, I was a bit late to the party - I started on 10.5.2 - but everything's much more polished than it was in Tiger, both graphically and performance-wise.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by jsz0 on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:15PM (#783864)
Leopard, pre 10.5.2, was indeed a mess. Lots of performance problems. I don't think it was until 10.5.5 that it caught up to Tiger in terms of performance and stability. 10.6.0 is great out of the box.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by yardie on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:29AM (#782059)
I think it depends. If you have a first-gen MBP than you are better off getting the new OS. 10.4 "supported" Intel chips but it always felt like a hack between PPC and Intel platforms. 10.5, and each update since, has gotten progressively better for Intel chips.

I think you've fallen for the marketing trap where a list of features has to be present for it to be worth something. Not many lists include code and platform optimizations because it doesn't market well. I've used OS X since 10.1 and each update has gotten remarkably better. Things have mellowed out in 10.5 but the OS feels fully baked.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by stuff4ben on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:32AM (#782193)
Good points, but I don't think I'm falling for a marketing trap to want something tangible for paying out $130. The OS works fine for me now. If Apple wants more money for me then I want more than just optimized code.

In the end I don't think there really is anything they can do to make me pay more money for the OS. I already bought iWork 08, I bought SuperDuper! for backup, and everything else I use is either open source or comes included with the machine. If Apple wants me to upgrade, then they need to discontinue security updates for 10.4 or some widget I badly need needs to be 10.5+. And honestly, it's not me that Apple has to contend with, it's my wife and her iron grip over the budget ;)

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by dasil003 on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:23AM (#782165)
Time machine alone was worth the price of admission. There were also some good unix upgrades in there if that sort of thing carries any weight with you.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by ghshephard on Monday August 24, 2009 @06:01PM (#783502)
Time machine is great, except for the fact that it Denial-of-Services my machine every time it does a back up. It reminds me of the late 1999-2000 when the Anti-Virus programs for windows (Norton/Symantec) would do a full system scan on a desktop and make it useless for an hour. That, and my 18 month old top-of-line spends an inordinate amount of time with the spinning beach ball. And crashes when I plug in a 30" monitor 20% of the time.

I'm hoping that a scorched-earth fresh install of 10.6 will either eliminate the amazing flakyness or alternatively point me to a hardware problem.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by stuff4ben on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:33AM (#782199)
What Unix upgrades?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by cubicle67 on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:51AM (#782244)
Leopard was the first version of OSX (actually, first BSD based OS) to receive UNIX 03 certification

http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3555.htm

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by rbanffy on Monday August 24, 2009 @11:40AM (#782362)
That's not exactly a good reason to upgrade by itself.

It could be if you were required by some regulation to use a UNIX certified OS. IIRC, there were little feature changes that warranted the certification.

As for myself, I have an older iMac that won't run SL, a netbook that runs Linux and I am perfectly happy with both.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by laut on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:46PM (#782917)
The difference is that Mac OS X tends to get faster with newer versions. Apparently Snow Leopard even takes up less disk space. Not the case with newer versions of Windows.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by zzkt on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:31AM (#782063)
I've upgraded a few MBPs (1st & 2nd gen) and even some old powerbooks all of which perform perceivably better with 10.5 YMMV
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by pmorici on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:55AM (#781999)
In the description it says perfect way to upgrade for tiger users, does it not?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by fendale on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:08AM (#782128)
I wonder how its going to work. If you have Leopard and your hard disk dies - do you have to install Leopard and then upgrade to Snow Leopard (which would be a pain), or will the upgrade allow a clean install onto a blank hard disk?

Still on Tiger here too, which is my main reason for wondering if I can get away with the $29 version!?

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by cooldude127 on Thursday August 27, 2009 @08:29PM (#790454)
Reports indicate that the $29 version will install on a clean machine just fine, no need to install Leopard first. It's kind of an honor system thing with Apple.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by fendale on Thursday September 03, 2009 @05:06PM (#803555)
Cheers for the info. I will get round to upgrading eventually then, but I reckon I will give it a few months until any compatibility issues are ironed out!
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by graywh on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:11PM (#782618)
$29 version is only an upgrade for Leopard users.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by barredo on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:44AM (#781978)
<s>I'll buy a full version if I were in Tiger.</s>

Edit: Mac Box Set seems a better choice too, US link: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MACBOX-101801 169$

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by baseonmars on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:44AM (#781977)
looks like they're recommending the 'Mac Box Set' http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MACBOX-101801
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by plainspace on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:02PM (#782785)
here is a link to the 09 wwdc presentation. you can skip to the 10.6 section:

http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/0906paowdnv/event/inde...

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by jpcx01 on Monday August 24, 2009 @11:03AM (#782267)
Holy shit. Early chrismas!
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by sho on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:31PM (#782682)
You might want to hold off a little while before upgrading, at least until 10.6.1. I upgraded my laptop 3 days ago and since then I've had at least 5 Mail.app crashes, finder a couple of times, and one terminal crash. I did an upgrade install, maybe a clean one is better, but I'm pretty surprised at the instability.

Also, if you use Macports, that's not up to speed yet so you'll be doing a lot of fiddling around to get that working. For example, I had to patch the port for Erlang to get that to install on 10.6, there's probably others. Wait a few weeks and that should all be sorted out for you.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by tvon on Monday August 24, 2009 @03:10PM (#782981)
I've been using it for a week on a 1st gen MBP (32 bit) and haven't had any crashes.

I don't use Erlang, but I have a lot of packages from MacPorts (mysql5, mercurial, git, svn, xorg, perl5 and python26 ) installed without any problems. The only thing I've tried to build that failed is screen.

I did a clean install, so that may be the difference maker.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by sho on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:57PM (#784004)
This is a 64bit MBP so that is another difference.

Yeah, all of those installed without an issue for me too. Of course, you also had to build macports itself from source, since there is no binary yet.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by unalone on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:15PM (#782830)
How'd you get 10.6? Were they releasing developer copies?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by sho on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:27PM (#782869)
Sure, but only high level developers got them. However, I was able to learn the final build number from a friend, then I just downloaded it off BT.

I have a copy on order but couldn't wait. Call it time-shifting.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by grantj on Monday August 24, 2009 @03:07PM (#782974)
Could your instability be attributed to the fact that you might not be running the actual release version (or has been modified in some nefarious way)?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by sho on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:35PM (#783961)
I should have mentioned that I also had the md5 of the release image. Needless to say, I verified it. There is no practical possibility that it is not bit-for-bit identical to the retail version.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by antonovka on Monday August 24, 2009 @04:40PM (#783287)
Given that you acquired an illicit copy over the intertubes of unknown origin and authenticity, perhaps you should refrain from commenting?
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by sho on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:53PM (#783995)
I checked the file in the same way you would ascertain a Linux iso you downloaded from an unknown source over the internet is genuine. There is no doubt whatsoever about its origin and authenticity.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by kasterma on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:28AM (#782180)
Requires: Mac computer with an Intel processor. No upgrade for my 12" powerbook. :-(

http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by mseebach on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:54AM (#781996)
Hmm, not exactly convincing. Leopard brought stuff like time machine, this smells more like a big service pack. I mean, OpenCL and some of the central applications running 64-bit? Better Quicktime and a new Safari? I don't even use QT and Safari.

And it's $29? Too little to be too much, but still a lot for a service pack.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by Xixi on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:22AM (#782157)
Apple choosed speed, optimization and refinement over features. And I welcome this choice wholeheartedly, enough bloat already... make my OS faster, slimmer and more robust and I'll be happy.

Sadly the price point of Snow Leopard, and the sort of reaction that you have make me think that the big shops will continue to make ever more massive and bloated softwares...

After all, you get what you are ready to pay for : if you think features are worth more bucks than optimization, that's what you'll get.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by yardie on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:20AM (#782042)
Did you even read link?

Here http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/ are the new features that went into this release. And your comment doesn't even make sense, first you say it's a service pack than you rattle off a short list of new and upgraded items. These things do cost money to develop. And I'm pretty sure $29 barely covers the cost of it. I don't remember anything new being in Windows when a SP rolled out except a new browser. (There was the uPNP browser that popped up in SP2 I believe)

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by mseebach on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:31AM (#782064)
Every other "system update" reboot I've made for the past 20 months seems to have included an update to QuickTime and Safari -- both of which, by the way, are available as free downloads -- and the prominent featuring of those two products as a component of a whole new version of an OS makes it feel like a service pack.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by nudded on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:37AM (#782075)
> and the prominent featuring of those two products as a component of a whole new version of an OS makes it feel like a service pack.

point me to a page that only displays those 2 updates as the main features. In my browser Apple is clearly marketing the 64-bit, Grand Central Dispatch and OpenCL as the main reasons to upgrade.

Also stop referring to an OS upgrade as a service pack. Because it isn't. Microsoft releases service packs, just like Apple releases minor updates to their OS, (eg. 10.5.7)

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by thras on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:50AM (#782096)
Also stop referring to an OS upgrade as a service pack. Because it isn't.

Well, that convinced me!

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by unalone on Monday August 24, 2009 @11:34AM (#782340)
Thras, I'll ask you this completely sincerely, because I don't and never have understood this. Why do you, and people like you, get off from reading a lengthy debate on a topic online, and ignoring every point except the one that's not a point, then snarking about it? It's not just you: A lot of people do it, and it baffles me. I always really enjoy being told why my opinion on something is wrong, and these snarky responses don't seem to prove anything.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by thras on Monday August 24, 2009 @11:52AM (#782391)
You more or less said that the grandparent was wrong "just because." You were telling someone that he was wrong without any argument. Exactly what you complained about with me, btw.

The only possible response to that sort of thing is snark.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by nixme on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:00PM (#782415)
> The only possible response to that sort of thing is snark.

Uh.. no it's not. You could respond like you just did now and explain that they "were telling someone that he was wrong without any argument."

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by thras on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:35PM (#782518)
Yeah. But that's slumming it when I explain things for the dimwits. I felt dirty afterward.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by miracle on Tuesday August 25, 2009 @06:45AM (#784579)
you my friend, are a mac troll which likes to pay money for service packs (which you get for free when you would be using windows).
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by gaius on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:58AM (#782113)
The new Quicktime leverages various features in Snow Leopard, e.g. Grand Central.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by cpr on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:31AM (#782061)
When Apple first announce 10.6, they said it wouldn't have any end-user features, but just a lot of re-engineering under the hood. Well, they couldn't help themselves, and there are a bunch of smaller features, plus things like Exchange support across the board.

And there really has been a lot of re-engineering, most of it focussed on making things a lot faster and smaller.

I think Apple deserve our thanks for actually making performance and improved footprint an explicit goal of a major release, rather than larding on new feature after new feature in some kind of misguided feature war.

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by stevoski on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:28AM (#782057)
Snow Leopard has always been described by Apple as a performance and stability upgrade.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by ionfish on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:24AM (#782048)
It depends on what you plan to do with it, I suppose. I'm personally happy to pay merely for a decent chunk of performance improvements (isn't that what we do when we buy faster computers, after all?), but the new frameworks are also interesting—OpenCL, for example.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by pibefision on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:56AM (#782003)
Also, there is some software that needs an update to work well on Snow Leopard, for example MacPorts.
Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by arthurk on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:10PM (#782452)
Apple has a few employees working on MacPorts who, along with the ADC devs, did a great job updating it for Snow Leopard in the past few months.

1.8-rc1 has already been tagged in svn and I'm sure the final version will be ready in time :)

Re:Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Now Available (Delivery on A... by Zev on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:14PM (#782829)
I think what everyone likes to point out re: MacPorts isn't MacPorts itself, but the software that it compiles, that needs work still.