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Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by martinald on Saturday December 07, 2013 @04:31PM (#6867770)
This is getting really interesting. Between this, the Nexus 5 and the various Lumia's a $649 iPhone is starting to look very, very expensive.

Smartphones at the moment seem to have got 'good enough'.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by mmahemoff on Saturday December 07, 2013 @04:49PM (#6867836)
Apple used to cover all bases. There was iPod Shuffle, iPod Nano, all the way up to the biggest iPod. So in the early 2000s, people at every level of the MP3 player market could be part of Apple's universe (which led to more PC sales and further MP3 sales and upgrading).

They've still not done this with phones, so they've left a giant hole for Android to fill, which in turn makes the platform more attractive to developers.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by interpol_p on Saturday December 07, 2013 @07:04PM (#6868327)
Apple wasn't really covering all price ranges with those products — they were covering all use-cases.

For example, the shuffle seemed more aimed at people who wanted something easy and light to clip on while exercising.

The nano seemed to cross-over slightly with that market, and also attract people who wanted something tiny but full-featured. (I.e., it was the size that differentiated it, not price.)

I don't think many people thought "Oh, I'll get a shuffle because I can't afford a regular iPod."

The fact that Apple continues to offer the previous years' iPhones is actually kind of unusual with regards to the structure of their past product lines. It's how they are trying to cater to different price brackets rather than use-cases.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by akennberg on Saturday December 07, 2013 @07:25PM (#6868378)
Offering previous iPhones as a price-reduced version works well for the development ecosystem (i.e. minimize fragmentation).
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by thaumasiotes on Saturday December 07, 2013 @11:43PM (#6868983)
> For example, the shuffle seemed more aimed at people who wanted something easy and light to clip on while exercising.

Speaking for myself, the shuffle is definitely aimed at my use case (I actually used a zen stone). I want to control my in-car music by hooking up a player with a purely tactile interface. Using my phone means every time I want to interfere with the player, I have to look at the screen... a huge step backwards in usability.

The zen stone had an adavantage that an ipod shuffle might or might not also have... no one ever broke into my car to steal it (although it was taken when they broke into my car to steal my backpack).

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by Theodores on Saturday December 07, 2013 @09:58PM (#6868785)
If you are buying for someone else - a child - then you might buy a low end shuffle because you are cheapskate.

As for use cases, phones are all for adults, or rather every age group. Apple and others have not brought out products that are for kids or old age folk, as in specifically for them, e.g. with restrictions on in app purchases and porn where some 'mothership' device can be asked to yay or nay an action. Also, there 'should' be a phone for old folks that is full featured yet only presents a simple dialler on the home screen.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by maxerickson on Sunday December 08, 2013 @08:57AM (#6869688)
I got a little sweat near a shuffle and the headphone port sucked it in and something shorted out. There was a big scorch mark visible.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by krakensden on Saturday December 07, 2013 @04:58PM (#6867877)
There are two editions of the 5, so they are probably moving in that direction. That, and older models do a reasonable job of filling the low end niche...
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by JohnTHaller on Saturday December 07, 2013 @06:26PM (#6868181)
Not really. The 5c just took the place of the 5. It's the same older hardware and build just with a cheaper to build case. So, instead of continuing to make the older versions of iPhones and marketing them as the less expensive alternative, Apple has switched to having the 5c fulfill that role with the same ~$100 price difference... so the phones on contract in the US start at $99 (5c) instead of $199 (5s) and are discounted appropriately.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by hayksaakian on Saturday December 07, 2013 @06:06PM (#6868113)
the problem here, is that they make SO MUCH MONEY that offering a (truely) low end model, or making any drastic changes is a great risk to their bottom line
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by jedc on Saturday December 07, 2013 @06:27PM (#6868186)
And remembering the lessons of "The Innovators Dilemma", this strikes me as a potentially dangerous place for Apple to be in. (A company should always try to disrupt their own industry... instead of others doing it for them.)
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by craigyk on Sunday December 08, 2013 @08:25PM (#6872399)
You took the wrong lesson home. Disruption isn't "low-cost" same product category. Disruption is totally new product category that obviates old category. Between iPods -> iPhones, Macs -> iPads, I'm not worried about Apple being scared to take these leaps as long as they get to own the profit margins.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by berkut on Saturday December 07, 2013 @06:16PM (#6868144)
This.

I've just bought a Lumia 520 as a play phone / replacement while I send my HTC One back to be repaired (due to it continually rebooting / crashing - I'm otherwise generally very happy with it).

I had an iPhone 3GS and 4S as well before the HTC One, so I've tried the three main platforms.

Windows Phone is actually very nice for the basics of webbrowsing, sending texts, calling, etc. It has its faults (limited app selection, screen's not amazing, the font hinting is a bit poor), but I'm very impressed with it (and I'm a Linux dev by trade who hasn't touched Windows for many years).

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by numo16 on Saturday December 07, 2013 @10:38PM (#6868863)
As a daily Windows Phone user, android user, and former iOS user, I'm curious to hear what apps you think are missing? I moved from my iPhone to Lumia and am only missing a google hangouts app (due to google choosing not to support the platform).
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by berkut on Sunday December 08, 2013 @04:11AM (#6869339)
There's no "decent" Weather apps - that's obviously subjective, but WeatherPro for iOS and Android I really liked. I still miss iOS's weather app really, the built-in one on the HTC One (don't know if it's Android's default) is a bit crap - made worse by the fact that different screens of the Android interface seem to think they're in different geographic locations.

Also there's no port of certain apps I rely on a lot like CityMapper, and the best guitar tuner app I've found on iOS or Android: Cleartune.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by alykhalid on Sunday December 08, 2013 @06:39AM (#6869521)
Have a look at this link[1], you can find reviews for ton of weather apps. Every week a new weather app is released on WP, i am sure you find the one you like.

[1]http://www.wpcentral.com/tags/weather

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by Touche on Saturday December 07, 2013 @11:09PM (#6868919)
Last time I used it there were no podcast apps that would update/download in the background. That's an entire category.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by alykhalid on Sunday December 08, 2013 @06:47AM (#6869528)
I am currently using PODCASTER[1]. It downloads new episodes over wifi when I connect the phone to charge.

[1]http://www.windowsphone.com/en-gb/store/app/podcaster/f5a125...

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by Touche on Sunday December 08, 2013 @12:31PM (#6870345)
The reviews suggest the feature doesn't always work. I've experienced the same from other clients.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by kenjackson on Sunday December 08, 2013 @10:14AM (#6869878)
The built in Podcast app does that.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by Touche on Sunday December 08, 2013 @12:29PM (#6870334)
The built in app only allows podcasts from their catalog.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by notdrunkatall on Saturday December 07, 2013 @10:13PM (#6868812)
Wow, $70 for that phone? I've been using an old Nokia E71 with a straight talk plan for a couple of years now because I didn't want to spend a few hundred on a phone. Looks like it might be time for an upgrade. How's the browser on it?
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by berkut on Sunday December 08, 2013 @04:05AM (#6869331)
Ignoring the font hinting (the font is barely readable when fully zoomed out - in contrast to on iOS and Android, although with the 4S and HTC One I had retina screens, so maybe it's not a fair comparison), the only thing really annoying me with the browser is more a general Windows Phone issue - in text boxes, I haven't worked out how to move the text caret position in the URL - by default it seems to autoselect parts, meaning it's very tedious try to fix incorrectly-typed URLs... I guess the answer is get it right first time...

I wish there was a way to make "Open in new link" tabs open in the background like on Android as well, but as far as I remember iOS had that annoyance too.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by alykhalid on Sunday December 08, 2013 @06:33AM (#6869508)
>the only thing really annoying me with the browser is more a general Windows Phone issue - in text boxes, I haven't worked out how to move the text caret position in the URL

If you want to place your cursor in the middle of some text you've already written, tap and hold the screen near the text you want to change until a cursor appears, then drag your finger to move the cursor exactly where you want it.

If you feel that the default browser is not customizable enough, try UCBrowser[1], it provides an option to open new links in background.

[1]http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/uc-browser/6cda5...

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by superuser2 on Saturday December 07, 2013 @06:06PM (#6868114)
iPhones are not intended to be purchased for $649 except by the very impatient (or people who break/lose their uninsured phones). If you wait your 2 years, it's $100 or $200 on-contract.

Of course it's different in emerging markets where contracts aren't the norm, but smartphone prices in the US are pretty damn close in terms of 2-year TCO.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by Negitivefrags on Saturday December 07, 2013 @07:26PM (#6868385)
I don't understand why people in America are so keen to pay for expensive monthly plans.

I pay $5-$10 dollars per month on average for my cellphone on prepay. It doesn't make sense all to buy a phone on plan.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by thaumasiotes on Saturday December 07, 2013 @11:51PM (#6868999)
Your problem is that you believe sensible plans are offered in the American market at all. Look at all the love people express for t-mobile's $30 / month plan. That's because it is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else you can get.

In China, I pay about US$15 every 3-4 months for a level of texting and voice talk that would easily cost $30 / month by itself in the US. (I don't have a data plan.)

I've tried going prepaid (also t-mobile) in the US. The economics worked out as long as I never expected to use my phone at all; if I expected anything, it was a money loss. And even while I expected nothing, I had to keep paying $10 / month so that all my paid credit wouldn't suddenly expire.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by lostlogin on Sunday December 08, 2013 @12:52AM (#6869093)
The irony of capitalism working better in China the the US is strong. What failed in the US? Under or over regulated? Or is it the lobbyists thing?
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by thaumasiotes on Sunday December 08, 2013 @01:31AM (#6869150)
The market for phone voice service isn't exactly the entirety of each country. "What failed in the US", if we want to compare only the situation in the US with that in China, could easily be that people in the US have so much more money that phone service prices are nine times higher.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by lostlogin on Sunday December 08, 2013 @02:29AM (#6869223)
I didn't mean to imply entirety with my comment, but it does read that way, apologies. Another issue could be the artificially low value of the Yaun?
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by pisarzp on Sunday December 08, 2013 @02:54AM (#6869253)
But this isn't China only. Even Europe is much cheaper then US. And eastern Europe is as cheap as China
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by chetanahuja on Sunday December 08, 2013 @08:56PM (#6872497)
US telecom market is mostly a duopoly (AT&T + Verizon) with sprint and Tmobile fighting at the margins. Combine with a profoundly uneducated user-base (when it comes to phone technologies) makes the job of the numerous MVNO's (straight-talk/simple-mobile etc.) much harder. Most people I know, even many who work in the tech industry, don't quite understand the concept of buying a device and a carrier plan as separate things.

This situation is not helped by the fact that the carriers have steadfastly refused to standardize on wireless technologies. Even the two GSM carriers (AT&T and T-mobile) have never agreed on the same set of frequencies for data... so eg., AT&T HS(D)P(+) devices (e.g. Galaxy Nexus, iPhone 4) didn't quite work on T-mobile and vice-versa. The regulatory agency (FCC) has basically been either helpless or complicit and maintaining the status quo.

Things might get a bit more competitive with LTE (with more standardized hardware etc.) but there doesn't seem to be any incentives for the big carriers to stop this effective collusion to start a price war. T-mobile seems to be breaking ranks in some ways but I haven't really seen a pricing strategy designed to pull the crowds yet even from them.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by com2kid on Sunday December 08, 2013 @10:02PM (#6872651)
It isn't a matter of agreement on frequencies, it is that each company paid many hundreds of millions of dollars to get exclusive access to those frequencies during auctions from the FCC.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by maxerickson on Sunday December 08, 2013 @09:22AM (#6869731)
I pay T-mobile $100 for 1000 minutes that last 365 days (in U.S.).

The minutes are expensive and no data, but for light usage it's great. AT&T Go phone has the same $100 for 1000 minutes that last a year.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by bluedino on Saturday December 07, 2013 @09:04PM (#6868674)
There are no $5-10 per month phone plans in the USA aside from things like Tracfone with 50 minutes per month.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by tesmar2 on Sunday December 08, 2013 @02:45PM (#6871041)
Airvoice has 10/month for 250 minutes
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by superuser2 on Sunday December 08, 2013 @05:26AM (#6869422)
Have you found a prepaid carrier in the US with adequate roaming coverage? Prepaid coverage maps are typically (always?) much, much weaker than contract coverage maps.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by maxerickson on Sunday December 08, 2013 @09:40AM (#6869775)
For voice, my T-mobile prepaid roams on at least some of AT&T.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by tostitos1979 on Saturday December 07, 2013 @07:54PM (#6868472)
Your math isn't correct. If one switches to T-Mobile in the US, you get pretty substantive savings. The con is that you don't get a phone subsidy.

I did the math a while ago. Don't know how it holds up. As a datapoint, we pay between $90-$100 for two phone lines with T-mobile. Includes 500MB data/tethering per phone, unlimited minutes in the US and text messages.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by glesica on Saturday December 07, 2013 @06:20PM (#6868157)
I, and quite a few people I know (admittedly perhaps not average consumers) refuse to sign contracts partly because the phones are so expensive to replace, and breaking the phone doesn't get you out of the contract. That means you need insurance, which adds to the cost. I would rather fully own my device, have the flexibility to switch carriers, and be able to downgrade my plan if my phone breaks or my needs change.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by wvenable on Sunday December 08, 2013 @12:23AM (#6869049)
The biggest problem with that is most carriers don't give you a discount if you own your own phone. So you can either pay $50 a month and get your handset for $200 or pay $50 and get your handset for $600. Which one makes more financial sense?
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by glesica on Sunday December 08, 2013 @01:53PM (#6870778)
Many carriers are starting to give discounts. T-Mobile does already. Also, I can use an MVNO for quite a bit cheaper than a subscription plan, but I need a phone to do that. Most of the MVNOs will sell you a phone, but it will be a either a full-price model, or a terrible piece of crap.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by simbolit on Saturday December 07, 2013 @06:23PM (#6868168)
in 'emerging markets' like germany more and more people are getting PAYG sim cards due to the prices being much much cheaper. so much cheaper in fact, that it often makes economic sense to buy a phone unlocked and pair it with PAYG, compared to the on-contract alternative.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by mpg33 on Saturday December 07, 2013 @04:46PM (#6867824)
macs are also a premium price compared to PC's....not sure how comparably this is
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by JohnTHaller on Saturday December 07, 2013 @06:22PM (#6868163)
True, which is why Apple commands a relatively small share of the PC market and why the entire Mac desktop/laptop and OS X business is only about 12% Apple's total revenue (last I checked last year anyways).

The Moto G is $179 and is, honestly, quite a bit of phone. Compare that to the iPhone 5c which is $549, over 3 times the price. Macs are about as much of a premium over PCs (comparing entry level hardware costs, not equivalent builds, as that would be a lower multiple).

Realistically, Apple is setting themselves up for the same type of market share in the phone business they have in the PC business. Android is at 52.2% of the market and climbing in the US (where consumers are currently insulated from the actual cost of a phone though this is starting to change) and at over 80% and climbing internationally. It's looking like it will be Android in a position analogous to Windows in the smartphone market.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by rayiner on Saturday December 07, 2013 @11:41PM (#6868979)
Macs are a small part of Apple's revenues, but Apple is and has for awhile been pretty much the only company making substantial profits on laptops and PCs. Similarly, pretty much only Samsung makes big profits on Android, and Galaxy S4 is just as expensive as iPhone. They also have the advantage of vertical integration in manufacture.

Finally, Google doesn't make any money on Android. Key difference from Microsoft and Windows.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by kayoone on Monday December 09, 2013 @03:18AM (#6873334)
When i look onto Amazon, the S4 is still substantially cheaper than even the iPhone 5. 460 EUR vs 620 EUR in german amazon currently. iPhone 5S starts at 700 EUR
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by mpg33 on Saturday December 07, 2013 @10:49PM (#6868881)
Yes, Apple did get an large share of the market simply by being first to the "fully-touch-screen phone market" with the first iPhone. It depends on how Apple views this. Will they start introducing sub $200 (no contract) products?

Personally I wouldn't buy a 5C over a 5S....

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by _delirium on Saturday December 07, 2013 @06:12PM (#6868129)
Apple seems to be aiming to fill the cheaper price points with tablets. Their idea seems to be, $1k+ laptops, $300-$900 iPads.

Within those price points they're nowadays pretty reasonably priced. There used be a significant "mac tax" versus similarly specced PCs, but a MacBook Air or Pro these days compares pretty reasonably to the stuff Dell is putting out. If you want a dual i5 with 128 GB SSD and 8 hours of battery life, the Macbook Air's $999 price point is within the norm.

The main market they aren't competing in is sub-$1000 laptop form factors, like the Chromebooks. That seems to be less an unwillingness to compete on the low end, and more a disagreement over what it will look like: Google is betting on a netbook-esque form factor at ~$400, while Apple is betting on a tablet form factor in that price range.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by Macha on Saturday December 07, 2013 @05:05PM (#6867899)
And the Mac market share compared to PC market share shows which is far more dominant.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by lotsofpulp on Saturday December 07, 2013 @05:20PM (#6867954)
A sustainable business with larger profit margins is usually better to have than one with smaller profit margins. Also, a business with clients who have deeper pockets is better than a business dealing with those who have less disposable income.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by Touche on Saturday December 07, 2013 @11:21PM (#6868942)
Apple didn't become the most valuable company in the world on a strategy of niches though. And they won't stay there if they go that way.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by ido on Saturday December 07, 2013 @05:46PM (#6868043)
Apple vs Amazon models, both have their pros and cons.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by prodigal_erik on Saturday December 07, 2013 @08:46PM (#6868624)
Apple's strategy had them circling the drain for many years, with too little volume to build a decent supply chain and hit sane price points. They all but gave up on making open tools and moved down to crippled appliances, and even then I was honestly surprised they survived.
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by eropple on Sunday December 08, 2013 @12:47AM (#6869089)
What you call "crippled appliances", other people call "things people want."
Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by glogla on Sunday December 08, 2013 @05:09AM (#6869399)
I don't really think so.

For iMac, this is pretty much true, you can get computer equivalent to 27" iMac (except for Mac OS and all-in-one construction), for a lot less money than 21" iMac.

But with laptops, you would be hard pressed to find something as good or better and at the same time less expensive than rMBP 13. With 15", the prices are about comparable, but looking at our local eshops, for the price of 13", you get thinkpad or elitebook with 1600*900 TN panel and rotary storage. That sucks.

Re:Google’s $179 Moto G puts every single cheap Android phon... by kayoone on Monday December 09, 2013 @03:48AM (#6873416)
i am actually not so sure about this. If you compare the recently released Haswell Dell XPS 15 to an 15" rMBP you will find a price difference of EUR 500 (in Germany) in favor of the Dell with very comparable specs. The Dell doesn't have PCIE SSD Storage (it has a mSATA SSD of the same size) but has a higher resolution QHD screen.

13 inch models aren't as easily comparable as the Dells don't offer a QHD display but feature a touchscreen. Also the SSDs seems to max out at 128GB, but still the Dells remain quite a bit cheaper.

Thinkpad/Elitebooks are usually lacking in cutting edge hardware in favor of stability and i think the MBP should be compared to premium consumer laptops like the XPS and HP Envy instead of thinkpads/elitebooks.

Dont get me wrong, id still favour Macbooks for various reasons, but you still seem to get more for less elsewhere.