News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by furyg3 on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @05:32AM (#6632842)
This bug is very annoying. Two people in my close circle of friends/family have this issue, which makes me think a) it's pretty common and b) it was catchable in QC.

I spent 2 hours this week trying to upgrade, back-up, restore, etc a relative's phone, without success. The fact that you can't downgrade from iOS 7 makes this doubly painful. Support from Apple was pretty straightforward for my friend: "Your phone is out of warranty, sorry, we will not help you." The fact that this warranty is illegal under EU law is left out.

Finding that this is an incredibly common problem amongst users with a recent iPhone (4S, still being sold by Apple), and seeing that Apple is actively censoring people for offering warranty help, is very frustrating. It's sad that it takes someone famous ranting about Apple's censorship to solve the issue, when it all could have been avoided by saying "We are aware of the problem, it has to do with the iOS 7 upgrade, we are working on a software fix, if we can't fix it we will replace the affected iPhones."

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by kalleboo on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @05:57AM (#6632928)
> Support from Apple was pretty straightforward for my friend: "Your phone is out of warranty, sorry, we will not help you." The fact that this warranty is illegal under EU law is left out

In most EU countries, it's the responsibility of the store that you bought it from, not the manufacturer. http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by waps on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:43AM (#6633104)
Which, for apple, is a distinction without a difference, no ?
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by chmars on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @09:10AM (#6633768)
Apple products and services are not exclusively sold by Apple and its network of official resellers etc. On the other hand, most manufacturers offer warranty in addition to the legally mandatory seller's warranty obligations.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by prof_hobart on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:34AM (#6633545)
There's plenty of places besides Apple that you can buy Apple products from.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by ohwp on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:52AM (#6633134)
Yes there is. There are 'certified' resellers.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by johnchristopher on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:19AM (#6633478)
I am not sure the EU law regarding the mandatory two years of availability for computer parts apply to the UK.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by iaskwhy on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:59AM (#6633694)
In my experience (happened twice), even if you buy the device from an Apple Store on some other European country (thus having the 2-y warranty) Apple Stores in the UK won't fix it. I had to wait for the flight home to have it fixed in my home country (and it was).

I own all categories of Apple devices but I never had a good experience at an Apple Store, not even when buying stuff. I realise I'm an exception though.

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by crag on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @05:53AM (#6632913)
I agree this bug is annoying.

But Apple censoring it's forums is nothing new. They've been doing it for years. And frankly, most companies do censor their forums.

No one likes it. And Apple is infamous for not responding until an issue reaches the mainstream press. So the best thing anyone can do is reach out to the mainstream press. Get this issue on the evening news programs and trust, it'll be fixed in a couple of days.

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by Doctor_Fegg on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:23AM (#6633031)
It's not "censorship" if it's Apple's own forums. A censor is a _third party_ who acts as an arbiter of what is morally acceptable elsewhere (OED definition: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/censor). Apple are entirely within their rights to remove stuff from their own website... even if they're being dicks by doing so.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by Amadou on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:51AM (#6633130)
A censor is a _third party_

The definition you linked to says nothing about 3rd parties, only officials without specifying who they work for. In fact, one of the examples given in that definition is film censors which is within scope here - in the US film censorship is done by the MPAA which is an organization composed of movie studios. Most of the films they censor are produced by their own members.

The use of the word censor in this discussion is entirely within the common and technical definitions of the term.

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by LogicX on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @07:30AM (#6633259)
OT, and sharing only because I learned this week: MPAA ratings are an opt-in guideline and can be ignored by movie theaters.

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/new-york-theater-will-admi...

Though most theaters do abide by the ratings, and therefore movies will continue to modify their content until they get at least an 'R' rating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_of_...

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by eli on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:19AM (#6633479)
If you want to learn about how bonkers the MPAA ratings process is, check out this documentary: This Film Is Not Yet Rated http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493459/
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by Doctor_Fegg on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @09:26AM (#6633859)
Each to their own, but I wouldn't call what the MPAA does "censorship" (to my limited knowledge, that is; I'm not an American).

The MPAA issues ratings; it's up to the studio to decide whether to make cuts to a film in order to attain a particular rating. No-one forces the studio to make the cuts (Wikipedia: "The MPAA rating system is a voluntary scheme not enforced by law and films can be exhibited without a rating").

Sure, it might be commercial suicide to issue a film with a particular rating, but the right to free speech != the right to make lots of money.

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by judk on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @10:54AM (#6634534)
The rating system is only "voluntary" in the sense that the government will decline to impose its own rating system as long as the private one meets the government's goals.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by sidcool on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @05:55AM (#6632922)
It definitely should have been caught in Quality Checks. There's another interesting angle to this. My boss always tells me to emulate Apple and Google engineers. He says "If they can create a phone or a search engine without glitches, I should be able to create a mediocre form without a defect".

In your face, boss!!!

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by linker3000 on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:37AM (#6633083)
This is a triumph of marketing over QA - the oft-quoted Apple reality distortion field...

A senior electronics engineer where I used to work 'had to have' an iPhone, so one was duly supplied. He immediately had problems connecting reliably to Exchange to pick up his emails and after the IT support guys had tried several times to make it work more reliably, the phone was handed back with the (valid) comment that this was currently a 'known problem'.

The engineer's reply was that he didn't accept that response because it was an Apple product and they'd not have problems making something as simple as email 'just work'.

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by judk on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @11:22AM (#6634759)
That doesn't sound like a very good engineer. I don't want to use a product from an engineer that decides by fiat that it works.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by sidcool on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @07:07AM (#6633183)
Yes, the infamous RDF is a known fact.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by EdiX on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @07:03AM (#6633166)
You must be new to apple products: launchd had problems running scheduled tasks for years, people resorted to installing anacron, when the Cisco VPS connection was released in snow leopard it was utterly broken, the first iteration of time capsule had thermal problems, most of those units are probably dead by now.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by gu on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @07:35AM (#6633281)
Why don't you tell your boss to provide you with the same perks and working conditions Apple or Google employees receive?
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by sidcool on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @08:45AM (#6633603)
I would love to. But that might end up with me being fired :) Ego is a big thing to surmount.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by gvb on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @09:28AM (#6633868)
You need to forward this comment to Scott Adams. He is always looking for PHB quotes.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by stinos on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @09:28AM (#6633871)
If I'd be your boss I'd simply tell you to code like every single bit no matter how small will be used in a space shuttle, airplane or submarine. Forget about trying to be like some Google/Apple guy, just trying not to be the cause of the next Challenger-like disaster shoud be a nice starting point to produce quality code.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by sneak on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:26AM (#6633039)
iOS 7 feels extremely rushed to me, as well. I have found several easily reproducible crashes in stock and freshly restored systems in MobileSafari (on top 100 sites) and elsewhere.

I really hope Apple abandons their overly-rigid release schedules in favor of quality once again.

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by tammer on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @06:59AM (#6633154)
Anyone else have the bug where flipping off bluetooth doesn't turn on the software keyboard? If I forget to hit 'eject' before I leave the house, my only options are to either hard reset or spend the day in read-only mode.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by __chrismc on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @07:32AM (#6633270)
Yes, I've had that one too. I have a Logitech keyboard case, but if I'm not writing long-form, I find it more comfortable to have the "bare" iPad, and tap out any shorter text. Unless I specifically disconnect the keyboard through the iOS settings panel first, I don't get the software keyboard back.

By contrast, in iOS 6, if the BT keyboard disconnected for any reason, (i.e. power-off/range) the software keyboard would instantly reappear.

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by interpol_p on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @07:54AM (#6633359)
My cousin had this issue on her iPhone 4S and Apple replaced it with a new one when she took it to the store. It seemed like a very straightforward exchange for her.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by furyg3 on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @09:12AM (#6633780)
I think the key is that this was probably under warranty for her. The 4S, for many people, is more than a year old.

Most people expect that their new phone will be built to last more than one year, but understand that if something breaks after that period they will need to pay to fix it, even if it is a factory defect (say, a home button or battery which should last 2 years, but in some cases doesn't). They also expect to benefit from software updates after their warranty period, but understand new features may not always be available.

What they aren't expecting is that Apple will pro-actively break a core feature of their phone with an update, which can't be reversed, and can't be repaired, without replacing the whole device.

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by regularfry on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @10:08AM (#6634167)
If a phone is available on a 24-month contract, I would damn well expect the manufacturer to stand by that hardware for 2 years.
Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by interpol_p on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @11:16PM (#6639236)
It was not under warranty at the time (she has had it since soon after the 4S was released, and the bug came about with iOS 7).

Edit: that said, the warranty in Australia is legally probably two years, though Apple advertises only one year.

Re:Apple censors Lawrence Lessig over warranty information by driverdan on Tuesday October 29, 2013 @10:44AM (#6634462)
This is a widely known Apple issue. They constantly release new products with complete disregard for the previous version. Just look at the iPhone 3G. iOS 4 made it completely unusable. Did Apple ever do anything to help? Nope!