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Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by gregpilling on Thursday August 08, 2013 @12:08PM (#6179808)
I am a medical marijuana user. I have fibromyalgia (a catch all label for constant pain), and it helps some with neuropathic pain. My doctor is kept informed about how much I am using, and I have to get my card renewed each year. MJ works, but at best it dulls the pain, and also helps to make the pain less 'front and center' and instead kind of makes it more something that is in the background.

I was never a stoner, and did not use it until I was 38 years old. I am happy it exists, because I was being treated with Vicodin for pain and was on a schedule of 6 pills a day. Enough that liver damage and addiction started to be a concern. I am allergic to pills in the Percoset family (hives and skin lesions) and I consume about 5 joints a day worth of weed. I don't even get high anymore, but it does help with the pain. It is costing me about $100 per week, compared to the $3 per month the Vicodin cost on my medical insurance. I could buy a new car with the weed money, but couldn't buy a coffee at Starbucks with the Vicodin money.

I hope the government gets around to reclassifying the drug soon. In the current situation, Child Protective Services would take my kids away if I was to consume the drug in front of them. A reclassification would enable more research, more research would lead to easier ways to ingest it. I find food products make me stomach sick, vaporizing doesn't work as well as smoking, and smoking is unappealing and difficult to do with any discretion.

I am fortunate that I can afford it, and can fit it into my schedule (I own my business). Many people need something like MMJ and can neither afford it, nor can they keep their employment with it because of widespread drug testing. While the state I live in says that card holders can't be fired for holding a card, it is a state that has 'right-to-work' laws and you can fire someone for no specified reason at all. (source- I employ ten people).

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by MikeCapone on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:00PM (#6180202)
Have you read Mindbody Prescription by Dr. John E. Sarno?

It's the only thing that could cure my constant RSI/chronic pain after years of trying everything, and in the book he talks about fibromyalgia.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mindbody-Prescription-Healing-Body...

The idea of psychogenic disorders would have normally have sounded like esoteric BS to me, but I ended up picking up the book at the recommendation of an ex-Google coder who went through all the same things that I did. I'm glad I did; for 15$, I completely cured myself after years of trying everything else (physiotherapy, standing desk, stretching exercises, working out, various books on RSI, ergonomic chairs, keyboards, mouses, trackpads, switching hands, etc, etc), and it turns out the book takes a very scientific approach to these conditions, even if it admits that there's a lot we still don't understand about exactly how our minds work and how they can affect our bodies (it's kind of an engineering approach -- we figured out something that works, now we need to figure out why).

Highly recommended to all those of you suffering from constant back pain, neck pain, RSI, etc.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by mikevm on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:06PM (#6180243)
I was thinking of buying that book, but he sounded like a typical wackaloon to me. I mean, just from reading the first few lines of the Amazon review:

> Dr. John Sarno caused quite a ruckus back in 1990 when he suggested that back pain is all in the head. In his bestselling book, Healing Back Pain: The Mind-Body Connection, he claimed that backaches, slipped discs, headaches, and other chronic pains are due to suppressed anger, and that once the cause of the anger is addressed, the pain will vanish.

Slipped discs are due to suppressed anger? What the fuck? I've been having back pain for a few years now (it returns whenever I slouch), but it started directly after a gym injury... what has that got to do with suppressed anger?

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by cooperadymas on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:19PM (#6180323)
Reading this currently, with a lot of similar skepticism, mostly because of this blog post: http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.htm...

I avoid books like this because they are almost all "wacakaloons" like you say. But this one seems to be much better. At least the entire first half of the book is the author making the medical case for his treatment. It is well cited, based on both his clinical experience and other studies.

Sarno doesn't claim that slipped discs are caused by suppressed anger. He never says that all backaches, headaches, slipped discs, and chronic pains are due to this and stresses the importance of getting examined before judging for yourself the cause of the pain. He believes that the pain from things like a slipped disc sometimes is, though. He cites a multitude of instances where people have slipped discs and aren't in pain.

Again, I'm not finished with it and am still a bit skeptical, but I would say it's probably worth a read.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by bithive123 on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:17PM (#6180309)
I read his book (http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connection...) expecting to have a similar reaction. While he doesn't make the strongest scientific case, you are not doing his proposition justice. It's more about people who injure themselves maintaining unconscious tension in areas which leads to stiffness and pain well after the physiological healing has finished, because they fear re-injury.

I found some of his advice helpful insofar as it suggests that mindfulness meditation can help ease tension-induced back pain (which I have found to be true for me) and that there is a mental component in overcoming the fear of re-injury and allowing yourself to resume your full range of motion without subconsciously tensing up.

As someone who struggles with anxiety from time to time, I can even believe his statement that he's referred some patients to therapy before attempting to treat their back pain.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by MikeCapone on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:17PM (#6180314)
Invest a couple hours in reading a few chapters of the book and find out for yourself. I can't possibly summarize it all here without skipping important steps.

All your objections are addressed very well in the book. It's not like he hasn't thought about those things and how it sounds at first. He came to his conclusions empirically by treating his patients, not by dreaming up some theory out of the ether.

I'll just re-iterate my recommendation for the book. It doesn't cost much and you can always get it from the library if you really don't want to spend the money.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by zwegner on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:20PM (#6180340)
I don't think he claims that, but rather that slipped discs being painful is.

Not really sure about this (I haven't read that particular book), but I will say that Sarno's theories cured my RSI pain, which crippled me for over a year. I'm not sure if his explanations of the mechanism for the pain are correct (they seem very hard to test), but I'm pretty sure the pain was all psychosomatic.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by marincounty on Thursday August 08, 2013 @02:49PM (#6180954)
I was in Chiropractic School and dropped out because I felt most patients got better by the placebo effect.

I once heard a Doctor describe psychosomatic pain. He believed the artierioles constricted with psychological stress. It's still real pain, but it will eventually go away.

I was deeply effected by nagging pain throughout my twenties. I went to Doctors, but since I knew where all the cranial nerves were(Chiro student), they didn't think it was psychological.

The American way to success(what ever that is) is Stressful. Especially, if you were the hard working type. Don't think you are invincible. The mind does break.

My use of weed has not worked. I used it for anxiety/depression but, it just made me feel anxious, and amplified any pain I had. But, everyone is different--try it--it just might work.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by evo_9 on Thursday August 08, 2013 @12:47PM (#6180103)
You might want to look at getting one of these: http://openvape.com/

It's very discreet and pretty effective, esp. if you are looking for a more CBD non-thc delivery method.

Unfortunately these are a local Denver product right now from what I can tell (my friend in SF can't find them their yet outside of driving to Berkley); so it might be difficult to find outside of colorado. They also make a variety of cartridges including Sativa, Indica and Hybrid.

I've switched to using this most of the time esp. outside the house, or when the kids are around. When you exhale there is hardly any smoke either and I've seen people smoking these at bars openly. I haven't been so bold even though I have a red-card, things sure have changed fast, at least in Denver.

Edit: Also, the high effect is minimal, esp with the Sativa cartridges. Much more of a body, pain reliever type effect.

Edit 2: Cartridges are rated for around 300 hits, and at 40 dollars per that works out be a pretty cost-effective solution from a cost standpoint too. This might not be as effective as a mj joint however; I would be curious to know if you get one if it's more or less effective.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by erikpukinskis on Thursday August 08, 2013 @03:35PM (#6181271)
There are lots of good, discreet vaporizers. This one is the top of the line and freely available: http://www.ploom.com/pax
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by subpixel on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:08PM (#6180257)
I wonder: what's the relationship between marijuana 'strength' (measured in THC, I guess) and medical effectiveness?

It seems to me the studies in the posted article are from a time when marijuana was dramatically 'weaker' than what you get today.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by WarDekar on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:59PM (#6180639)
There are 3 main active ingredients in marijuana: THC, CBD, and CBN. The places I go get their strains and edibles/topicals/whatever lab tested so you know the %s of each. In general, higher CBD+CBN levels are better for pain relief and insomnia and will cause more grogginess/drowsiness than strains higher in THC which are more for appetite stimulation, euphoria, anxiety relief, etc.

At least in SF the legitimate dispensaries do a good job of informing you about these things and finding the strains that will accomplish what you want.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by pekk on Thursday August 08, 2013 @02:27PM (#6180815)
If I am trying to get relief for pain and insomnia, why would I begin with the assumption that I am looking for a strain of THC at all? Why not get medical advice on how to treat the pain/insomnia/underlying conditions?
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by tsotha on Thursday August 08, 2013 @07:08PM (#6182606)
People usually go to the weed doctor after they've exhausted other avenues. For one thing, if you have insurance it's going to be a lot cheaper to take standard pharma products than weed.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by jlgreco on Thursday August 08, 2013 @02:36PM (#6180866)
Because weed is safe enough to treat as an over-the-counter remedy? Because many people in this country find medical care to be inaccessible?
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by angersock on Thursday August 08, 2013 @02:42PM (#6180913)
Because that advice is likely parroting what a pharma sales rep told the doctor over a sales dinner?
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by pekk on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:43AM (#6186302)
It is strange to pretend that the only valid drug to use for pain or insomnia is THC. What does that have to do with pharma sales reps?
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by HNJohnC on Thursday August 08, 2013 @03:05PM (#6181026)
You are incorrect about the effects of CBD, in fact modern research has shown it's effect to be more stimulating and has been compared to ritalin by those with experience.

For more modern up to date science backed information on CBD see projectcbd.org

CBN is not a primary cannabinoid, it's a breakdown product of THC and simply indicates how old or stale the cannabis is. It's primary effect is grogginess and general unpleasantness so you want to avoid it as much as possible.

Any dispensary that says CBD is good for insomnia is simply repeating long disproven but widely spread information.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by malingo on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:38PM (#6180488)
Look at THC / CBD proportions. There's research [0] into CBD mitigating THC's interference with memory formation.

Also, intentionally-high-CBD strains are under development [1]:

"A high-CBD cannabis strain was developed in the 1980s by David Watson and Robert Clarke, American naturalists who founded a company called Hortapharm in Amsterdam to pursue their goal of developing plant strains for different purposes. (The day Watson and Clarke became expatriates is the day the U.S. lost its lead in the field of cannabis therapeutics.) In 1998 Hortapharm sold its seed stock to a British start-up, GW Pharmaceuticals, which has since developed a strain that expresses 97% of its cannabinoid content as CBD.

GW plans to test its high-CBD strain as a treatment for rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel diseases, psychotic disorders, and epilepsy. It is now in Phase 2 trials to determine the dose levels to use in clinical trials involving people. GW mixes its high-CBD and high-THC strains in a 1:1 ratio to make Sativex, a plant extract formulated for spraying under the tongue that has been approved in Canada and elsewhere to treat neuropathic pain associated with multiple sclerosis. CBD evidently bolsters the pain-killing effects of THC while moderating its psychoactivity."

[0] http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101001/full/news.2010.508.ht...

[1] http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/07/14/who-s-afraid-of-canna...

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by evo_9 on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:22PM (#6180353)
From my limited understanding THC is the aspect that causes the 'high' whereas the CBD's are effective at pain relief, seizure control, and generally the medical benefit side of things. Around Denver there are a whole class of food additives and edibles that are high in CBD's because of this effect.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by penrod on Thursday August 08, 2013 @03:03PM (#6181013)
You touch on another way in which drug laws are positively evil - the only reason why Vicodin causes liver damage is because it is legally required to contain a large amount of acetaminophen. The express purpose of the acetaminophen is to permanently damage your liver if you are ever tempted to 'abuse' the Vicodin and exceed the approved dosage.

Of course, with opioid tolerance there is no clear line between therapeutic and recreational dosages, and no way of setting an acetaminophen level that hurts one group of users but not the other, so in practice we have legally mandated poisoning of thousands of chronic pain sufferers.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by oz on Thursday August 08, 2013 @07:14PM (#6182640)
Do you have any citations for this? I'm genuinely interested.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by justinator on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:16PM (#6180295)
It is time to grow your own weed, on a $100/week script, my man.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by codezero on Thursday August 08, 2013 @02:22PM (#6180790)
I have a friend who grows and unless you are re-selling it to shops, you're unlikely to break even growing your own. The equipment is relatively costly and the care and attention required to consistently grow is very time consuming.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by tubbzor on Thursday August 08, 2013 @04:24PM (#6181641)
The start-up cost is high, yes. Around 1200 for a good set-up shopping at the right places. This includes a tent, ballist, surge protectors, light, soil, nutrients, ect. The whole 9 yards.

The first few (maybe 2-3) grows will turn out pretty bad, but it will still be enough to last you to the next grow. You have to find a balance in the nutrients and water which only really comes with trial and error, but the recommended dose is generally pretty close.

On the time issue: Once everything is set up, it's surprising relatively low time commitment. Especially if you're only growing 2-3 plants for personal use, you're looking at _maybe_ 3 hours per week for maintenance just to water every 3-4 days, prune dead leaves, sweep the area up, ect. I've also known people who use an Arduino or RaPi to rig a drip irrigation system which they can leave unattended for up to 2-weeks with no issues. Those growing for dispensaries in mass quantities are growing hundreds of plants at a time all at different stages and that is certainly a full-time job to maintain.

The nice thing about growing your own is there's no obligation to grow right after you finish one, and keeping the buds frozen preserves them completely for months until you need it. So, if you aren't looking at giving it up in the next 2 years I think its an extremely viable option which will save you money in the long run.

If you tell me how many grams you consume weekly or monthly I could give you a pretty good idea of where to start and how many plants you'd need to maintain that.

Source: I live in Colorado, grew my own in college with my roommate for 4 years, and have several friends still maintaining large and small operations I occasionally help out with.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by patrickk on Thursday August 08, 2013 @08:06PM (#6182850)
>I've also known people who use an Arduino or RaPi to rig a drip irrigation system which they can leave unattended for up to 2-weeks with no issues.

I'm interested in hearing more about this, purely for scientific reasons of course!

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by deadfall on Thursday August 08, 2013 @02:50PM (#6180956)
Yes, if you grow indoors you are spending a lot on electricity , but if you grow outdoors during the summer then the cost will be significantly lower. Grow enough to last through the winter. Weed grows in afghanistan in the harshest of climates.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by selectodude on Thursday August 08, 2013 @02:59PM (#6180999)
It's called Weed for a reason. However, the stuff you get from a dispensary will have a significantly higher THC count than the stuff you grow in your backyard during the summer.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by deadfall on Thursday August 08, 2013 @03:34PM (#6181258)
Arguable. Probably depends on experience. The farmers that grow in the green triangle california mostly grow outdoors and they supply dispensaries.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by selectodude on Thursday August 08, 2013 @06:41PM (#6182486)
And they're professionals with the correct seeds, equipment, and climate.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by codezero on Thursday August 08, 2013 @05:49PM (#6182181)
Yeah, you are right. My friend grows indoors, I am sure this is part of the reason I hear of his difficulty, among other things, he keeps a busy full time job and had no previous experience growing anything before diving in to it all.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by deadfall on Thursday August 08, 2013 @06:35PM (#6182449)
If you live in a city, you really have no choice but to grow inside.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by gadders on Thursday August 08, 2013 @12:13PM (#6179843)
Interesting that you don't get high any more. I wondered whether MMJ would fall into the category of "do not drive or operate machinery" whilst using.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by gregpilling on Thursday August 08, 2013 @12:47PM (#6180106)
I believe most states have rules that are about "driving under the influence" and the influence could be alcohol, drugs, illness, or basically anything that would alter your mental state. I have had days when the pain alone would make me fail a roadside sobriety test (slurred words, can't walk a straight line). I don't recommend consuming drugs or alcohol and driving, prescription or otherwise.

At work I avoid operating the forklift, milling machine, or anything else that could cause injury to me or my people. I still get a very slight buzz, but nothing at all like when I first started using it (think 5 or 10% of previous effects). I have had times when I consumed what I needed (four or five bowls) when friends were in the same room, and they have gotten high from just being there while I had no change. In general I consume in the very early morning and at night when I know I won't be leaving again before sleep. I avoid using during the day because most days I have to drive and work.

MMJ is certainly not a perfect solution, but it beats constant never ending pain (no drugs) or addiction and liver failure (opiates with acetaminophen) http://www.drugs.com/vicodin.html .

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by peller on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:21PM (#6180350)
Once your tolerance has been built up to such high levels, taking a week off (in my experience) is all you need to get a "90% reset."
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by gadders on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:10PM (#6180264)
Fair enough. I wonder if the active component that dulls the pain also the one that causes the wooziness. Is it possible to have one without the other? I suppose smoking the raw leaf is a pretty blunt delivery mechanism vs putting the active compounds in a patch or a pill.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by apalmer on Thursday August 08, 2013 @12:18PM (#6179880)
Definitely would fall into the impairs motor skills category. You can develop a tolerance for almost all drugs, even alcohol and yet many still fall within that category so wouldnt expect ganja to be any different.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by mistercow on Thursday August 08, 2013 @03:19PM (#6181130)
>You can develop a tolerance for almost all drugs

That seems to be the common wisdom, but is there any evidence that that's true?

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by mratzloff on Thursday August 08, 2013 @12:24PM (#6179923)
It does. In Washington state, where it is legal, the initiative that made it so made a provision to amend DWI laws to include THC thresholds.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by nnash on Thursday August 08, 2013 @12:38PM (#6180033)
>Interesting that you don't get high any more.

At 5 joints a day OP probably has built up a pretty high resistance to THC. Speak to enough every-day smokers and you'll find they go on breaks every once in a while to address this.

>I wondered whether MMJ would fall into the category of "do not drive or operate machinery" whilst using.

Depends on the strain, if you're smoking Indicas then yes you should not operate machinery.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by pdeuchler on Thursday August 08, 2013 @12:52PM (#6180134)
This is a really good article (despite it's admittedly biased source) on driving while under the influence of marijuana:

http://norml.org/library/item/cannabis-and-driving-a-scienti...

It's also important to note the most dangerous thing you can do, bar none, is to drive tired and unfocused. Which is very much legal.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by criley2 on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:50PM (#6180583)
Not the most dangerous thing.

Try driving on LSD. While drunk. And high on xanax. While shooting heroin.

Obviously, there are more dangerous states to drive in than tired and unfocused...

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by ledge on Thursday August 08, 2013 @02:36PM (#6180870)
I would rather drive on LSD than drive tired, no question.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by sliverstorm on Thursday August 08, 2013 @03:12PM (#6181079)
Can't LSD cause you to hallucinate? Hallucinations seem like the #1 thing you wouldn't want to happen to you while you are driving.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by ledge on Thursday August 08, 2013 @04:17PM (#6181588)
Not really in the conventional way people think of hallucinations.

What you see is distorted, but everything you see is actually there. The walls might look like they're dripping or wavy, the branches on a tree appear to reach out at you, and colors become more vibrant, but you won't ever see gigantic bunnies or flying unicorns or some other stupid shit that often ends up in film depictions of a psychedelic experience.

As dosage increases, your mind increasingly tends to interpret what you're seeing as something else, like a shadow may appear briefly to be a person. When this starts to happen I would no longer feel comfortable driving, but for me this occurs at the peak of 500 ug + experiences, the equivalent of 5 standard doses. Not saying that driving on LSD is a great idea, but on a single standard dose it's not nearly as dangerous as driving after you've pulled an all-nighter IMO.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by redwood on Thursday August 08, 2013 @06:47PM (#6182511)
You and I both know it's all about dose :)
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by ejfox on Thursday August 08, 2013 @04:15PM (#6181568)
As a human, you are more able to handle hallucinations than you think. If you see a bear off in the distance, in real life do you freak out and drive off the road? No. You just remark at it. "Holy shit a bear in the distance!"

When you're on acid, you don't change as a person, your reactions don't change. If you see something weird you say "woah, that's weird" but, unless you're deep in a trip and forget you are on a substance, you can usually handle it like a normal person.

Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by thepurplemonk on Thursday August 08, 2013 @04:30PM (#6181673)
In my experience, one dose of acid will make you see things, but not things that aren't there. More like interesting patterns in clouds. You can clearly distinguish what's real and what's not. That being said, I'd rather not drive, but could imagine doing so.
Re:Why I Changed My Mind On Weed by Zigurd on Thursday August 08, 2013 @01:38PM (#6180485)
A 1998 Olympic gold medalist in snowboarding was stripped of his medal for testing positive for marijuana. Then someone at the IOC thought better of trying to call marijuana a performance enhancing drug.