News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @06:32PM (#4971526)
I went to a "big box" type gym in January 2012 and hired a staff trainer. I told her that I wanted to lose about 20 lb, get stronger, and start running in mud runs. She started me off with basic body circuit training, working with her once a week and doing 3-5 more workouts the rest of the days. During this period I also watched my calorie intake. By May, I reached my goal on all three accounts, so she switched me to a routine more focused on free weights. Around October, she signed me up with a "specialist": a USAW certified coach that worked outside the "big box" gym, to do some Olympic weightlifting. This was a great experience. Not only did I get a lot stronger, leaner and got a lot more endurance, but I also learned a lot. The best part for me was that I did not have to focus on any one type of exercise: I did not gain 50 lb of muscle and lose all my flexibility, and I did not lose all my muscle mass by focusing solely on cardio. I learned the proper form for doing back squats, clean & jerks, and snatches, and as of a month ago, I can run a 6 minute mile.

My point with all that is that a traditional gym and a staff trainer can work, provided the trainer knows what she is doing. Everybody is different. I have no particular athletic talent; my only advantage is that I am relatively young. However, what I have is time. There are 168 hours in a week. Devoting 5 of them to fitness is not a big deal. For me, finally getting a professional to train me was what I needed. This may work for others as well.

Edit: by the way, getting a trainer to work with you once a week is fairly expensive. I got a raise at the beginning of 2012 and thought that getting a trainer would be a wise way to spend that money. I do not regret a penny I spent. Looking back, the alternatives I considered (getting a loan on a new car, a new computer, etc.) would not have made me as happy as getting more fit than I ever was in my life up to this point.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by Swannie on Thursday December 27, 2012 @06:58AM (#4973060)
Congratulations. You got lucky, and got a great trainer. The sad reality is this is the exception. I take my office gym for example - I don't go there, but a colleague does. We've discussed fitness over lunch a few times, he gets it.

Guess what the trainers in the gym think about him? They personally do his workouts. They take his advice. They are happy for him to go up to other gym users and coach them, because he knows more than they do about free weights.

They are professional coaches. He's a parts logistics troubleshooter. See the problem there? (And he said that the trainers we have are actually pretty good compared to those at the many commercial gyms he's used).

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Thursday December 27, 2012 @08:17AM (#4973201)
Thanks. Yes, I did get lucky. Same way I got lucky with the English teacher I had when I only knew Russian and was getting ready to come to the United States. I honestly had no idea how to tell a good trainer from a bad one, and got paired up with a person that knew what she was doing and also was passionate about her job.

However, that was the situation I envisioned as well. I knew how to run and how to bench press, but I didn't know when to do it. I am a software engineer, not a fitness expert. I pretended to be a fitness expert for too long, so I decided to hire someone whose job it was to teach me instead.

One small addition to my story is that my gym had a training coordinator who talked to me about my goals and evaluated my fitness level before pairing me with a trainer. So, you could say that it wasn't completely random that I got paired with my trainer, but a result of a deliberate process. Of course that would depend on how good the coordinator is, so the chain of random events goes on.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by jetti on Thursday December 27, 2012 @09:12AM (#4973343)
"Congratulations. You got lucky, and got a great trainer. The sad reality is this is the exception."

Ain't that the truth! My wife thought that personal training would get her motivated to lose weight and get in shape. Unfortunately the trainer was a complete jerk. He was inconsistent with making his appointments, to his credit though, he must have the unluckiest family ever because just about ever Saturday was a "family emergency" eye roll. But anyway, since he wasn't consistent with showing up and he didn't do much except count and look at his phone, my wife wasn't getting results. That's when he suggested taking weight loss pills. Actually he didn't suggest, he kept pushing them on her. She actually thought about it (to which I convinced her it isn't a good idea). There has been one good trainer at that place since then but he left for a better job (go figure).

I feel that if you go a big box gym, you are walking in to a personal trainer revolving door and that the trainers are sales people in disguise. I have notice that at the gym in my office building (which is an independently owned gym) the trainers seem much more knowledgeable and nobody I have talked to has had any complaints.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Thursday December 27, 2012 @09:43AM (#4973444)
You may like the concept of a personal training studio. They are typically a bit more expensive, but the atmosphere is very different from what I hear.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by dredmorbius on Thursday December 27, 2012 @07:16PM (#4975806)
You're much better off finding a gym which specializes in training for strength or power sports (e.g.: powerlifting, Oly lifting, even a better Crossfit box) and signing on with a team. This isn't a group class, it's a team sport.

The cost-effectiveness is much higher than one-on-one training, the emphasis is on measurable results (higher totals, Crossfit games, etc.), and the group itself is competitive but supportive.

One-on-one fitness studios can be good, but it's a high-cost niche.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by jetti on Thursday December 27, 2012 @01:32PM (#4974433)
As of now, my wife is just going workout with me and skip the personal training. She has had better results in the past by working out on her own, so we are going to revisit that. As for me, if I'm going to spend money on training it will definitely be with a USAW certified coach as I would just want to learn the Olympic lifts. Thank you for the advice though, if my wife does decide to get back in to see a trainer I'll definitely keep that in mind.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by corresation on Thursday December 27, 2012 @09:30AM (#4973401)
They are professional coaches. He's a parts logistics troubleshooter. See the problem there?

While your story is both anecdotal and second-hand, what you describe doesn't sound that remarkable: Information is largely free now. It is entirely possible if not probable that someone with an interest in a niche will learn more about specific subject matter than generalists who have to know about the whole field.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by andyakb on Thursday December 27, 2012 @11:43AM (#4973876)
It isnt as though they were upset that their divorce attorney couldnt answer complex questions about patent law. Free weights should not be considered a niche for a personal trainer in a gym. Even just walking around a gym should show you that primarily you have 3 types of equipment, cardio, weight machines, and free weights, so it isnt as though there is simply too much to learn and understand for somebody whose job it is to be knowledgeable.

The issue with many personal trainers (and people you discuss fitness with in general) is that, for the most part, if your diet is good, doing pretty much anything in the gym will get you results. Many trainers have desirable figures and they know it and they constantly have people asking them for advice in their private lives and are paid to give it at their jobs. This causes many to simply assume that what they did is the "correct" way to workout when the truth is that had they dont most any routine with that devotion for many years, they would have gotten similar results.

This is much more similar to investing in the sense that the experts often give worse recommendations than you could find yourself with a few hours research. Im sorry this is too anecdotal for you, but if you walk into most gyms, talk to most people who have a clue about training, etc, then this is what you hear; people simply arent properly educated on personal fitness even when that is their job

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Thursday December 27, 2012 @04:47PM (#4975215)
> This causes many to simply assume that what they did is the "correct" way to workout when the truth is that had they dont most any routine with that devotion for many years, they would have gotten similar results.

This. A great example of this is Tim Ferris and The 4 Hour Body. That guy basically says "well, here is what I did, and here's what I look like now. Do exactly as I say and you will too." His "research" has a sample size of 1, yet he claims that his method will work for anyone in the world, from a skinny teenager to his overweight mother. True, it will work for some, further muddying the waters.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by Swannie on Friday December 28, 2012 @05:49AM (#4977237)
This is one anecdote of many.

The thing is, if you work in a gym daily, I'd expect you to have intermediate knowledge of a lot of things: cycling, running, rowing, free weights, warm up exercises, safe stretching techniques, nutrition. The ability to perform assessments of form, fitness, give advice about contra-indicated exercises based on disclosed medical histories, and more.

It's when I see people completely incorrectly adjust their gym bikes, start stretching before they touch any equipment, etc. because their "trainer" told them. When I personally get "corrected" on my "bad" form by a gym trainer (at the time I was attending twice weekly sessions with a qualified amateur lifting trainer instructor), telling me to do the exact opposite of what I was taught. When I see trainers get on the rowing machine and demonstrate poor technique that could lead to repetitive strain back injuries... the list goes on, and it's depressing.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Thursday December 27, 2012 @09:45AM (#4973449)
The danger for me was thinking that I knew more than the professional did. Yes, you can be more knowledgeable than the trainer, but would you expect them to know more about, say Ruby, than you do if they dabble in it in addition to their full time job? Seems to me like you can (and probably should) always find a professional who knows her trade better than you do. Otherwise, yes it's a waste of your money, time, and health.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by corresation on Thursday December 27, 2012 @09:52AM (#4973464)
I would absolutely expect to find people in other fields who know specific areas of my field better than me. This is the story of every single person "in computers" since the origin of the career, everyone who dabbles desperate to show that they know some specific better than you.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by dredmorbius on Thursday December 27, 2012 @07:13PM (#4975797)
And among the bright points of the original essay: it details the perverse incentives which lead to specifically this problem.

Quite the market failure IMO.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by Swannie on Friday December 28, 2012 @05:42AM (#4977227)
Yes, trainers in a "Globo" gym are incentivized on membership sales, repeat personal sessions, and importantly: running classes. The more classes they are "trained" to run, the more valuable they are as an employee.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by subsystem on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @06:56PM (#4971597)
Sounds great. The only unsolicited advice I would offer is that if it ever gets boring, I would look into doing some sport half of the time. It will give you social, technical and mental elements that weight training just can't.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by constatino on Thursday December 27, 2012 @02:31AM (#4972704)
Sports are great but don't offer the easy progression in fitness that weight/fitness training offers.

For example you can make yourself steadily stronger by gradually increasing the amount you're squatting each week or by running longer distances. You don't have this level of control when playing competitive sports.

That said I agree with the social elements. Sports are great fun and joining a team sport would be worth it for the camaraderie alone.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by dredmorbius on Thursday December 27, 2012 @07:36PM (#4975863)
Meh, really depends.

One characteristic of aerobic athletics is that most individuals peak in their mid 20s to late 30s, after which raw capabilities typically decline (albeit gradually, less than 1% per year). There's some exception for endurance activities, in which maturity, pacing, training, and nutrition can provide gains until later years (highly competitive 40, 50, and 60-something ultramarathoners aren't uncommon). And for activities involving fine motor control or finesse, skills may be developed over a lifetime, though injuries can also accumulate: gymnasts, dancers, and football players often peak out young.

For strength sports, progress is cumulative over years, meaning peak strength may not occur until the mid 30s or early 40s.

In competitive sports, you're looking at a mix of skills and abilities. Individual progress is harder to measure as it's team results that are most evident, not that stats aren't available (how meaningful they are is another matter). High-contact sports tend to be games of youth, but this isn't always the case.

And for anyone, coming to an activity fresh means a lot of latent potential to unleash: you'll likely improve dramatically over the first few years of participation.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @09:33PM (#4972073)
Yes, though the social aspect was fulfilled for me by a few coworkers running with me after work and doing a couple of mud runs.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by r00fus on Thursday December 27, 2012 @01:20AM (#4972563)
Sports are great. Just make sure you stretch beforehand and only play with folks who take safety seriously - it can suck to lose a skiing season because your basketball teammate caused you to roll your ankle.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by Scotchy on Thursday December 27, 2012 @05:40AM (#4972970)
you mean warm up, not stretch, right ?

Stretching happens after if ever, not before :)

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by WA on Thursday December 27, 2012 @07:34AM (#4973122)
The philosophy of stretching changes every couple of years. One year, stretching before is the way to go. Then, stretching after sport. Then, no stretching at all.

From what I know: Stretching after doing a workout is bad, because it tenses muscles even more, stopping the flow of blood in the muscle and thus, making muscles more sore. But maybe that opinion is just the current trend.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by Afton on Thursday December 27, 2012 @02:46PM (#4974705)
The science on this one seems clear, stretching is only useful for increasing range of motion. It doesn't prevent injury ( in the studied contexts), it doesn't prevent DOMS, and it doesn't lengthen muscles.

on phone, but sources are a quick search away.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by dredmorbius on Thursday December 27, 2012 @07:49PM (#4975897)
The solid science has been pretty consistent for about 20 years: dynamic stretching can be helpful, static stretching much less so, and the best warm-up for an activity is doing the activity at a lower rate for a few minutes.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by hndude on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @06:49PM (#4971582)
Re: your last paragraph(the edit), I agree completely. I can think of few things that make me feel as good about myself as when I have a few-month-long streak going of consistently spending time doing physical activities. Gives me such a natural rush of happiness and confidence all day everyday.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by kawsper on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @07:22PM (#4971682)
How much are you paying for having a staff trainer?
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @09:20PM (#4972032)
I paid about $25-30 per session. The difference was that at first I signed up for one plan, then switched. I also had to pay for the gym membership, another $40/mo or so.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by vijayr on Thursday December 27, 2012 @09:26AM (#4973385)
That is not expensive at all.

I just picked up a couple of brochures of yoga and taekwondo classes near my home - each go for 150$ per hour (individual) and 100$ per hour(group) !! And crossfit is 200/month.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Thursday December 27, 2012 @04:49PM (#4975223)
Yeah, martial arts are expensive. I was looking at the price per year for this, which works out to be quite a lot.

I am not a fan of CrossFit for many reasons. At best, you simply don't get your money's worth. At worst, it's a one-size-fits-all system with no structure to it. From personal experience, and word of mouth, it's also really easy to get injured doing it.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by jambalaya on Thursday December 27, 2012 @01:36AM (#4972607)
Thought about competing in the olypmic lifts for fun? FYI there's an oly lifting subreddit http://www.reddit.com/r/weightlifting Great job!
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Thursday December 27, 2012 @09:41AM (#4973442)
I have, but I am not at that level yet, and trying to keep an even profile would likely prevent me from doing, say a 250 lb clean & jerk. Thanks, I didn't know about the subreddit.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by adam on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @09:16PM (#4972018)
I'm curious how often you worked in runs to this workout? Did you ever go to 2-a-days or did you just run on your lifting off days?
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @09:35PM (#4972081)
I started with two days of cardio and three days of body circuits. Each workout was about 30 minutes long, though cardio sometimes would go to 40 or so. I kept doing two cardio days throughout, switching from circuits to lifting and back as the trainer told me.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by vijayr on Thursday December 27, 2012 @04:56PM (#4975252)
Can you tell us where (city) you are based?
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:56PM (#4978627)
Raleigh, NC
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by mgkimsal on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @07:50PM (#4971762)
You really only devoted 5 hours per week?
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by IgorPartola on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @09:47PM (#4972114)
Most of my workouts were 30 minutes long, and most weeks I did 5 workouts. The other part of the time was spent on commuting to the gym (10 minutes) or getting ready, etc. This is an important point, as most of my weight loss did not come from the exercise: I burnt about 400 calories at a time and immediately replenished them after. The weight loss came from the calorie restricted diet (not overly so, I did create a deficit), which included lots of vegetables and fruit.

I have tried doing dieting alone but it never worked: I could lose weight, but then would gain it back within a year. Combining diet and exercise completed the feedback loop. Eating like crap meant feeling like I was going to die when working out. Conversely, eating well meant performing well. This clicked for me.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by magicalist on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @08:24PM (#4971853)
For most people, that doesn't really account for the travel time, fueling time, cooling off, and general gym fooling around, which there inevitably will be.

I still agree with his point that it's one of the best ways to spend that extra time, but I think it's important to acknowledge it and plan for it. The commitment of a one hour workout is quite different than one that's twice as long because you have to deal with after-work traffic. There's also the matter of which 5 hours, as not all hours are equal in value.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by hedgehog on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @08:35PM (#4971887)
If you have running shoes and a weight bench that's really enough. In the city you can live close to the gym and that keeps the time down, for example I can leave my apartment, return, shower, and dress in under 1:15.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by eru on Thursday December 27, 2012 @03:07AM (#4972760)
What do you need the bench for? If you only get one piece of equipment, make it a barbell (with some weights).

(Next you buy a squat rack. Or skipping rope, or pull up bars, or olympic rings. If you feel you need to use your triceps, buy olympic rings and do dips on them.)

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by rimantas on Thursday December 27, 2012 @06:34AM (#4973032)
For a bench press?
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by eru on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @10:18AM (#4997066)
Just don't bother with bench pressing, if you don't have a spotter or no bench. You can work on your pressing muscles in different, non-scary ways.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by dredmorbius on Thursday December 27, 2012 @07:53PM (#4975903)
You can press off the floor. It's much better for your shoulders, and far safer if you're training alone.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by dredmorbius on Thursday December 27, 2012 @07:53PM (#4975902)
Oly bar, plates, rack stand or power cage, adjustable dumbbells, chinning bar, dips bar / captain's chair, C2 indoor rower, pulley system, bumper plates & platform, ropes, kettlebells, would make up my essential gym. It's a lot cheaper (and more convenient) to pay someone else a monthly fee to manage and store all that than keep it on premises than accumulate and store it myself. Hence: a good gym is a solid investment.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by b3b0p on Thursday December 27, 2012 @11:02PM (#4976372)
I bought a Rogue S2, the matching bench and dip accessory, a set of bumpers, Pendlay Bearing Bar, and some rubber mats from the Tractor Store. Put it in my basement. Sure beats having to run to the gym or wondering if it will be open on certain days or the hours. I don't know why you would need or want all those other accessories you mentioned. I like to keep it simple though. It doesn't take up much storage either. Before I bought my current home, I rented out a climate controlled U-Haul to use it.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by dredmorbius on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:20AM (#4976540)
A bar stand is good, but (if you've got the space and budget for it) a full power cage is going to offer you additional benefits and flexibility. Most of my list actually attaches to that or is proximate to it, so it's not like you'd have a huge pile of equipment spread all over the place.

The cage itself is good for squats, rack pulls, shrugs, high-racked overhead press (as opposed to cleaned presses), and bench press, among others. The safety pins can be used for additional protection where the bar might put you at risk, especially in squats and bench press. Most cages will have a high bar suitable for chin-ups, if not one can generally be added. Similarly a dips attachment. An adjustable pulley gives you the added flexibility of a cable station allowing for pulls with resistance at different orientations (high, low, mid). With front racks, you can work outside the cage while still racking the bar onto it, much as you would with your bar stand. Bumper plates and a platform allow for Oly lifts, which are great for developing not just power but strength (you can do Oly lifts without these, but it's safer and easier on your equipment if you do have them).

You can also set up a rack for use with bands, chains, or both, to change and target your training. A rack generally offers anchor points for bands (chains just get draped over the bar): http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_trai...

Something like this offers most of what I'm talking about, many other cages do as well: http://www.texasstrengthsystems.com/powerracks.html

An adjustable DB is just a bar, a set of plates, and a locking ring that you can set up for a wide range of weights, it's cheaper than buying a full set of DBs over the same range, and the manual ones will give more range than the adjustable DBs you can typically buy (usually 5-50# or so, not enough for the serious lifter).

A rope hanging from the ceiling for climbing is pretty minimal equipment. Kettelbells (even just 2-4 of a few weights) offer some increased variety to a workout, though most KB moves can be done with DBs.

A Concept2 erg is something I happen to like, and if I had my own gym it's what I'd want.

Total space budget isn't all that huge

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by b3b0p on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:57PM (#4978629)
I could have gotten the cage, but it's larger, heavier, and takes up more space. Also, it's all I need. I didn't want to buy more than I wanted or needed. I don't need a cage to squat, clean, press, and chin. I went back and forth for a while, but those are essentially the only exercises I do. I have no interest in chains, bands, etc. This is fine and works for me. It's also cheaper, easier to take apart/together, and move to a different location if needed.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by dredmorbius on Saturday December 29, 2012 @12:33AM (#4981251)
Yep. Starting from a just a bar, a stand is your first best additional purchase. Just sayin' what all y'all can do with a cage on top of that.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by matwood on Thursday December 27, 2012 @12:54PM (#4974242)
Yes. When I was at my strongest (max DL was 525lbs, sadly I'm only in the 400s now) I spent only that in the gym. Lifting weights is both a physical and mental exercise that most people can only continue for ~45 minutes. Anymore than that and it's often useless work because it's not at a level that's still challenging.

Powerlifting tends to make for longer workouts because I would take more rest between sets. When I would do BB or cut workouts I would be in the gym ~30 minutes. Keep in mind that this 30 minutes was full on balls to the wall intensity. It's the intensity that matters and not the time. Also, many people do not know true intensity. I know I didn't learn it until I started doing BJJ training and puking multiple times during 1.5 hour sessions. Protecting yourself and competition has a way of drawing people out to the very edge of what they are capable of.

There was an article recently in Outdoor magazine where even amateur marathon runners are training differently. Instead of slogging out many many miles, they have cut miles and are doing less work but at maximum intensity.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by foobarqux on Thursday December 27, 2012 @04:55PM (#4975244)
What are your squat/bench/press PRs?
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by matwood on Friday December 28, 2012 @09:21AM (#4977733)
Bench was 325# Squat was 380# Weight at the time was 205#

My goals were 500/400/300 DL/Squat/Bench, but I could never get the squat. My legs are long and I do true ATG squats. My quarter and half squats were into the 400s though. My other problem with squats was that I tore my ACL wakeboarding and have had it surgically repaired. It feels great now, but the timing set me back on my squatting.

Benching in the 300s hurt my elbows too much so once I hit that number I backed way off. I rarely bench over 250# during a workout now.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by foobarqux on Saturday December 29, 2012 @07:16PM (#4983999)
Nice bench, congratulations.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by raverbashing on Thursday December 27, 2012 @04:28AM (#4972867)
What's the surprise?

Most people would be surprised at "how little" bodybuilders work out. Sure, they work out much more compared to the average person, but less than let's say your olympic swimmer, volleyball player, etc

It's still a "full time job" but training is not a lot of time compared to other activities (mainly eating)

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by debacle on Thursday December 27, 2012 @11:02AM (#4973698)
bodybuilders spend a lot more time on their workout routine than power lifters.

A power lifter might spend 3-5 hours a week, but a bodybuilder likely spends up to ten or more.

Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by arjunnarayan on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @08:06PM (#4971812)
That's 3 good workouts per week.
Re:Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie (2011) by foobarqux on Thursday December 27, 2012 @04:51PM (#4975228)
What are you lift PRs now?