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Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by piker on Friday November 28, 2025 @05:52PM (#46083513)
Interesting how radiation issues could be solved in software.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by tonyarkles on Friday November 28, 2025 @06:36PM (#46083813)
To give you a bit of insight, around the same timeframe (late October/early November) I directly observed two high-accuracy RTK GPS receivers reporting high accuracy (2cm), full 3D DGPS lock with carrier phase, and positions wandering within about a 5m circle horizontally. The altitude was staying pretty consistent (within about 1m, which was outside of the reported accuracy but not bad) until there was a sudden 60m altitude shift. This was all while they were sitting static on the ground, verified both by the crew and the accelerometer, gyro, and RADAR data.

There wasn’t a software fix per se, but we were able to quickly add a check to verify that the Kalman Filter’s position variance estimate was on the same order of magnitude as the accuracy level that the receivers were reporting and put a big red warning up. This wasn’t a flight-critical system, but it is the first time we’d ever seen that behaviour from those receivers and we’ve used them for 5 years.

Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by RossBencina on Friday November 28, 2025 @07:00PM (#46083971)
Not my area at all, but I'm extremely surprised that a fly-by-wire system would use GPS as an altitude reference. Is that really the case?
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by adhambadr on Friday November 28, 2025 @07:37PM (#46084192)
It’s a combined signal system, using pressure based sensors + gps.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by ape4 on Friday November 28, 2025 @07:55PM (#46084296)
And inertial guidance too?
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by adhambadr on Saturday November 29, 2025 @05:55AM (#46086628)
I don’t know what airbus uses I only looked into the schematics of commercial avionics like Garmin. I doubted though IMU drift and calibration introduce more error than they can provide in useful signal, old school pressure sensors + gps adjusted manually or automatically for regional pressure settings (pilots get these numbers through radio when they enter a new pressure area) is accurate enough (~1m). I’ll let a real avionics engineer correct me here, I’d be curious if that signal is worth the hassle + I can imagine such tiny SMD sensors ARE the biggest victims of radiation hallucination.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by a-dub on Friday November 28, 2025 @07:12PM (#46084033)
i would expect a huge shift like that to violate the gaussian assumption of the kalman filter? (which i guess is what you're checking, sort of?). regardless i would expect the kalman filter to smooth the shift over some substantial time at least?
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by londons_explore on Saturday November 29, 2025 @01:55AM (#46085642)
I think it more likely these receivers fell for a spoof GPS signal or some software bug internal to the receiver than a solar bitflip.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by tonyarkles on Saturday November 29, 2025 @11:04AM (#46088550)
In our case I don’t believe it was solar bitflips but rather wildly changing ionospheric conditions. I was primarily pointing out how you can have a software-only fix for problems like this.

Without going too far into the weeds, the fact that the receivers in question were reporting high accuracy under uncertainty is definitely a software bug in the receivers from my perspective. There was a different receiver with a completely different chipset in it on-site too that was experiencing similar issues but was reporting low accuracy. Without going into too much detail, I’ve got pretty good reasons to believe it wasn’t spoofing.

Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by matja on Friday November 28, 2025 @05:55PM (#46083541)
Perhaps it's improving the checksum algorithm on network packets, or even ... adding one.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by amelius on Friday November 28, 2025 @06:35PM (#46083800)
Makes you wonder, if/how _passengers_ are directly protected against the radiation
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by fragmede on Friday November 28, 2025 @06:50PM (#46083905)
They're not. Excessive high altitude flight increases your chance of developing melanoma.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9447865/

Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by amelius on Friday November 28, 2025 @06:54PM (#46083933)
Ok, I'll take an aisle seat more often now instead of a window seat.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by userbinator on Friday November 28, 2025 @07:10PM (#46084020)
Unless you fly as often as pilots and other onboard staff, it's unlikely to be significant.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by londons_explore on Saturday November 29, 2025 @01:58AM (#46085653)
If flying were invented today, I bet it wouldn't be allowed due to the radiation. It's more than many medical procedures which guidelines say to only do when the medical benefits outweigh the radiation risk.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by amelius on Saturday November 29, 2025 @05:09AM (#46086412)
I suppose if flying were invented today the plane would have no windows and the pilots would use cameras.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by loeg on Saturday November 29, 2025 @01:27PM (#46089628)
Clearly the benefits of flying outweight the radiation risks, though.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by burnt-resistor on Friday November 28, 2025 @10:36PM (#46084992)
Passengers flying now and then, it's not a big deal, but aircrews are at increased risk of cancer.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by stackghost on Friday November 28, 2025 @05:57PM (#46083555)
It comes down to voting algorithms and memory persistence. Sometimes there is a threshold before data are "voted out".

I don't work on the A320 but solar radiation is a well-known issue in avionics, generally speaking.

Edit: deleted some speculation

Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by lazide on Friday November 28, 2025 @05:53PM (#46083526)
Finally turning on the ECC RAM option?
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by mandeepj on Friday November 28, 2025 @05:55PM (#46083532)
Maybe there's a range that requires a change?

Now imagine, if it was over the air update, then maybe there would be no disruption?

Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by SoftTalker on Friday November 28, 2025 @06:18PM (#46083672)
Agreed, I expected additional shielding or something physical like that.
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by AnimalMuppet on Friday November 28, 2025 @05:56PM (#46083546)
s/solved/mitigated/
Re:Flight disruption warning as Airbus requests modification... by nutjob2 on Saturday November 29, 2025 @04:12AM (#46086171)
About one third require hardware mods.