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Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by babblingfish on Thursday October 16, 2025 @07:50PM (#45612034)
Books have got to be the least expensive form of entertainment out there. The value to cost ratio is incredible. Consider buying books to support authors and publishers. If you can't afford it, then libraries are nice too.

I personally know people who pirate books, but pay hundreds of dollars a year for streaming services or battle pass type video games. It blows my mind. Books are so cheap people!

I recently bought the complete Storm Archives series by Brandon Sanderson on ebook for $10. That's over 100 hours of entertainment. It's literally a ratio of 10 CENTS per hour of entertainment.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by sib on Thursday October 16, 2025 @08:08PM (#45612120)
I have more than 100 books that I bought with actual money on Apple's iBooks (or whatever it was called back in 2010-2012). I no longer use an iPad and would like to be able to read them on my Kindle. Because of DRM, I can't. I'm all for supporting authors and the various editors, etc., but I feel like I've already done that in this case.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by sroussey on Thursday October 16, 2025 @09:43PM (#45612593)
Yes, there should have been a law that required interoperable DRM.

At least you can transfer movies around different services. It’s a shame you can’t with books.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by charcircuit on Friday October 17, 2025 @01:30AM (#45613577)
If there was an actual market demand for this then Kindle could license the technology.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by sib on Friday October 17, 2025 @01:55PM (#45619730)
Ironically I worked on the project to enable that cross-provider interop for movies...
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by sharken on Friday October 17, 2025 @04:31AM (#45614446)
It should be put into law, that when you buy something, you have the right to do with it what you want for personal use.

In the present case, Amazon clearly states that the customer is buying a book, so it should work the same way as buying a physical book.

One solution would be to buy a DRM free digital version.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by criddell on Friday October 17, 2025 @08:18AM (#45615882)
I don't see much of an ethical problem with downloading a pirated version of an ebook that you already paid for but can no longer access. If I did that, I'd have no problem sleeping at night.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by lesuorac on Friday October 17, 2025 @10:22AM (#45617117)
Afaik, format shifting for convince is legal so long as you're Anthropic.

It was mostly a passing mention in the lawsuit against them where the damages are just for pirating books they didn't also buy. The fact that they bought used books and scanned them since its cheaper than ebooks was allowed by the court.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by criddell on Friday October 17, 2025 @10:29AM (#45617217)
I think the key part was they scanned the books then destroyed the originals. I suppose the analog here would be to log into Amazon and delete the purchased ebooks.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by bobbylarrybobby on Friday October 17, 2025 @11:21AM (#45617813)
I think they would've been allowed to do the scanning even without destroying the originals. AFAIK destroying the originals was just done to facilitate scanning — they needed the pages to be loose sheets, not bound.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by criddell on Friday October 17, 2025 @11:26AM (#45617864)
They scanned then shredded the books so that publishers couldn't claim an unauthorized copy was made. All Anthropic did was a format shift which is allowed.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by sib on Friday October 17, 2025 @02:16PM (#45620015)
I agree with that
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by bee_rider on Thursday October 16, 2025 @08:00PM (#45612093)
Videogames could give them a run for their money, I guess, but only certain genres.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by babblingfish on Thursday October 16, 2025 @08:02PM (#45612097)
Vampire Survivors ^^^
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by bee_rider on Thursday October 16, 2025 @08:07PM (#45612109)
Well that’s just not fair; cheap and endlessly replayable. And multiplayer now, which is giving it a second wind for me.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by nolok on Friday October 17, 2025 @02:18AM (#45613796)
Most genres really.

Even a 60 euros for a 6 hour experience comes at 10 euro per hour, cheaper than music and on par with movies.

Add replayability, multiplayer, longer games, cheaper games, ... and many many games are under 1 euro per hour, sometimes far under. Even someone playing fifa or call of duty has a price to hour ratio thats absurdly good.

And the range available is insane, used to be if you liked some genre you had maybe a game once every two years, now there are so many that not only you can't play all your games, even a seasonned gigantic fan of gaming cannot know all good games released anymore.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by bee_rider on Friday October 17, 2025 @10:58AM (#45617551)
I agree in general, it is just that books also score very well in this metric.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by Spivak on Friday October 17, 2025 @12:30PM (#45618650)
Cheaper than music?! Not while Spotify is around. Assuming my listening stats are accurate I hover around 2¢/hr annually.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by nolok on Saturday October 18, 2025 @04:28AM (#45625828)
You don't own that music / the licence to that music. If you want to use renting service as the price, then PS Now, Xbox Gamepass, EA Play and the like are what you should use and then the price is much, much cheaper.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by NoMoreNicksLeft on Thursday October 16, 2025 @08:23PM (#45612206)
>I personally know people who pirate books, but pay hundreds of dollars a year for streaming services or battle pass type video games. It blows my mind. Books are so cheap people!

I've been downloading every book whose title I see mentioned anywhere. I've got the last 20 years or so of the NYT Book Review Notable Books (100 per calendar year), the Book of the Month Club list, etc. Why go to the library, when I can have one of my own?

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by zamadatix on Thursday October 16, 2025 @09:58PM (#45612654)
The issue wasn't with the price so no amount of talking about how the price is great will make a dent in the issue.

The library ebook lending solutions tend not to avoid the DRM problem either.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by pdonis on Thursday October 16, 2025 @10:16PM (#45612747)
> Consider buying books to support authors and publishers.

Consider that maybe buying Amazon Kindle books is giving more support to DRM schemes like the one described in the article than it is to authors and publishers.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by AnonC on Thursday October 16, 2025 @10:39PM (#45612839)
> I personally know people who pirate books, but pay hundreds of dollars a year for streaming services or battle pass type video games. It blows my mind. Books are so cheap people!

What is your definition of “cheap” and how many books do you consume compared to movies and TV shows on streaming services? You also haven’t stated which categories of books are cheap and are better value for you. Others may not have an interest in Storm Archives or something that’s interesting to you. There may be people interested in reading a lot of nonfiction alongside some fiction. Individual interests vary a lot.

Someone using only one streaming service may probably be getting thousands of hours of entertainment over one year.

Such comparisons also don’t account for regional price variations and availability.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by aidenn0 on Thursday October 16, 2025 @11:07PM (#45612961)
The post you are replying to implies that they buy books with the exception of books that are only available on Kindle.

I, too, do not buy ebooks that I cannot strip the DRM from. I would face a dilemma were I to have need of a book that I cannot get as either a physical copy or a DRM-free electronic copy, but I have not faced that situation yet.

I have spent over $2000 this year on books.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by thayne on Thursday October 16, 2025 @11:16PM (#45613004)
The stormlight archive isn't a representative example because:

- Brandon Sanderson's books are actually relatively inexpensive, despite their popularity

- Brandon sanderson ebooks are available without DRM. Interestingly, this is actually more common for fantasy and SF than other genres.

Other books are more expensive and more likely to be locked behind DRM for digital books.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by thaumasiotes on Friday October 17, 2025 @02:08AM (#45613749)
> Interestingly, this is actually more common for fantasy and SF than other genres.

Because it's a Tor policy? Brandon Sanderson's ebooks are DRM-free because his publisher is Tor.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by WorldMaker on Friday October 17, 2025 @12:35PM (#45618719)
Yeah, it's a Tor policy, and Tor is one of the biggest publishers in fantasy/scifi, which does have a big impact on why DRM-free is more common in those genres than any other.

But it's also useful to point out that it isn't just Tor. Baen, best known for military scifi, has had a DRM-free policy for slightly longer than Tor. (Not just that, but the Baen Free Library is a really cool approach to ebooks as well, with DRM free copies of some of their most out-of-print/hard-to-print books and also the first book or two in nearly every series that they publish for a "try before you buy". Some of their hardcovers have even included CDs of sections of the Baen Free Library over the years.)

Baen did it first but Tor did it louder in that Tor's parent Macmillan went to bat for Tor and few other brands in a big lawsuit with Amazon that Amazon was applying their DRM whether the publisher wanted that or not because it was a lock-in moat for Amazon, which led to why there is now a required "This book is DRM free at the request of the publisher" acknowledgment on kindle copies of most Tor books (and a few other publishers).

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by rendaw on Thursday October 16, 2025 @11:30PM (#45613062)
If you read GP's post closely, they're saying that the value to cost ratio is 0 due to Amazon's new DRM. Did you mean to reply to some other thread?
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by jzb on Thursday October 16, 2025 @11:53PM (#45613180)
I often buy a hard copy and then find an ebook online or check it out from the library on Libby. I’m all for supporting authors, but I don’t want to funnel money into books that I don’t really own.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by duskdozer on Thursday October 16, 2025 @11:59PM (#45613207)
How much of a cut does a place like Amazon take from the purchase while providing negative value to the product? Everyone (except Amazon) would be better off if you pirated the book and mailed a check to the author for half the cost or whatever
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by ycombinatrix on Friday October 17, 2025 @12:04AM (#45613221)
i'm gonna argue that video games can be better cost to value ratio.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by darkwater on Friday October 17, 2025 @04:15AM (#45614366)
> I personally know people who pirate books, but pay hundreds of dollars a year for streaming services or battle pass type video games. It blows my mind.

I personally know people that pirate everything and PAY FOR PIRATING SERVICES. This blows my mind even more! I know that globally it's probably still cheaper to pay for those services rather than paying for 4 different streaming services each month, but god, if I go pirate than I would go for 0$/month expenses.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by pmx on Friday October 17, 2025 @05:22AM (#45614756)
It isn't about the price. The level of service and the quality of the product you get by pirating is simply better. Streaming services break up shows and have s1-3 on one platform, 4-5 on another, and the rest on another still. You'll "buy" a movie on amazon prime video only for them to remove it so you can't watch it anymore. Prime video, a service you have to pay for now has ad breaks while watching shows. Even just FINDING stuff to watch is a nightmare, Netflix is the same stuff over and over again in different random made up categories.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by account42 on Friday October 17, 2025 @07:45AM (#45615596)
Plus, streaming services limit what devices you are allowed to watch on and what software you can use, especially if you want to watch the highest resolution version. It's completely absurd how some people accept that and continue paying those streaming services.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by darkwater on Friday October 17, 2025 @05:44AM (#45614844)
I know and - cough cough - I might be embracing that as well. But still paying someone that basically leeches on someone else (and I don't mean Hollywood/Netflix etc, I mean the ripper themselves) unethical.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by bmacho on Friday October 17, 2025 @09:33AM (#45616625)
A lot of the time the distributor (or legal IP owner) is like a billion times more immoral than the ripper (or IP violator), and they are the ones leeching. You can choose legality over morality, but then don't claim moral high ground.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by darkwater on Friday October 17, 2025 @11:57AM (#45618216)
You have probably misunderstood. There are 4 parties here:

A) the content creator, owner of the IP

B) the people that copy the content made by A and publish it (i.e. the "release groups"). They can distirbute the content over bittorrent, sharing sites etc

C) people that run platforms that share copies made by B, and they offer access to those copies (sometimes even just a hash to a torrent) with some kind of paid subscription. Their added value is making it easier to access content copied by B.

D) final users, they can choose to consume content from A, B or C.

My point was that D paying for C are... weird, in my opinion.

Edit: technically there is a 5th group, like C but that do it for free, running forums etc at most hosting some banner to pay the hosting cost and not much more.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by bmacho on Friday October 17, 2025 @01:03PM (#45619083)
I answered the Hollywood/Netflix part. Distributors, most prominently Apple and Amazon are shitty companies, and paying them is arguably much more unethical than paying "C", even if the latter is illegal.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by vikarti on Saturday October 18, 2025 @01:43AM (#45625211)
They pay _for service_ of just press play and view
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by ratherbefuddled on Friday October 17, 2025 @06:31AM (#45615073)
I'm more than happy to pay for DRM free epubs. I won't pay for a crippled rental of a book that only works on amazon or adobe blessed devices and can be confiscated on the whim of a corporation who won't be answerable for it.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by choo-t on Friday October 17, 2025 @07:58AM (#45615711)
> Books have got to be the least expensive form of entertainment out there. The value to cost ratio is incredible.

Hard disagree, lot of video game will give you a better hours of entertainment per dollars ratio.

Lot of sport will do the same, as will board games and roleplaying games. Lot of hobbies are cheaper than books.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by MSFT_Edging on Friday October 17, 2025 @08:32AM (#45616009)
I buy a lot of books from used book stores. Fundamentally I'm only paying for the paper it's printed on as none of those fat proceeds($3.99 paperback) ever reach the publisher. Totally cool and legal.

When I'm following a new book that's coming out, I'll drop the $30 on the unnecessarily large hardcover with the thick paper that fluffs it up.

I have only ever purchased one eBook though, and it was an awful experience. I had to crack the DRM so I could read it on the same app I read all my other books on.

When I buy a physical book, I can put it on my shelf and share it with anyone I want. I can't do that with an ebook. And if I can't comfortably read the oversized print copy, I'm going to just go find a copy online.

I basically refuse to buy physical modern fiction due to the publishing industry making every physical copy as large as possible. I have old mass-market paperbacks that have twice the density per page, thinner pages, and overall more portable than the massive soft-covers with giant print that they sell today. They're just uncomfortable to read. I took a copy of "Death's End" and a copy of "Thinking in Jazz" by Paul F Berliner. From the outside, the two books have nearly the same dimensions. The latter weighs almost twice as much, has nearly 300 more pages, and the page density is nearly a third tighter. Why should both these books take up the same amount of space on my shelf? Why do publishers think they're so important as to take up two seats on the plane? Bring back smaller mass market formfactors ffs and I'll pay full price for their bullshit.

Publishing companies are making their products worse and worse to consume. As Gabe Newel says, it's a distribution problem.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by Goronmon on Friday October 17, 2025 @09:22AM (#45616485)
I personally know people who pirate books, but pay hundreds of dollars a year for streaming services or battle pass type video games. It blows my mind. Books are so cheap people!

Games that sell a battlepass or have ongoing MTX are an minority of the video games available.

There are plenty of games available that are priced similarly to books and there really isn't a question as far as which will provide more entertainment.

For instance, I recently purchased the Mass Effect series for $6. I should be able to easily get 100+ hours out of that set of games.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by deltarholamda on Friday October 17, 2025 @09:50AM (#45616827)
If at all possible, find a local independent book store and buy from there. If they don't have it in stock, often they'll order it for you.

I have one that's been around since I was a kid, and I love taking the family there. Everybody picks a book, and it might cost anywhere from $80-120 (I've got a good sized family), but these days that's about what it would cost to go to a movie. And since you have a physical book, you can swap when you're done.

We also started celebrating Jolabokaflod a few years back, which is an Icelandic post-war tradition of giving books as gifts on Christmas Eve and reading them. This is a lot of fun, and it's a great excuse to hit the book store.

Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by NoGravitas on Friday October 17, 2025 @11:21AM (#45617802)
Also consider buying through Bookshop.org. You designate your local book store as the one that will receive the profit from the purchase, but you get to shop through Bookshop.org's full catalog. If you don't designate a book store, the profit is distributed among participating book stores.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by EliasWatson on Friday October 17, 2025 @10:11AM (#45617017)
The issue is that you usually aren't buying the ebook. You are buying a license to access that ebook and they can revoke that license at any time. Maybe you're okay with that, but many people want to permanently have access to the things they purchased.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by chaostheory on Friday October 17, 2025 @10:25AM (#45617168)
Buying a license if you’re pirating, supports the authors while potentially offering you legal protection on the cheap.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by marknutter on Friday October 17, 2025 @10:50AM (#45617445)
If you're going to just borrow it from a library, then why not just pirate it? The author/publisher isn't getting paid in either case, and libraries are 1000x less convenient than pirating.
Re:How I bypassed Amazon's Kindle web DRM by JambalayaJimbo on Friday October 17, 2025 @10:57AM (#45617537)
The authors and publishers are getting paid by the library for the physical book borrowed, which endures wear and tear and must ultimately be replaced. Not sure how licensing for digital books work with libraries - all the library systems I've used have a cap on the number of digital books that can be lent out.