You might be surprised to hear that "America" contains many people on all sides of every meaningful issue and debate.

He stated that we should not disarm ourselves because evil exists.

I’m not completely sure I agree with that answer, but it suddenly doesn’t excuse evil.

Also as immigrant I assure you that most of us are legal - please stop using us for your arguments in favour of illegal immigration - and would be unlikely to be arrested for a crime and would not try and flee if arrested, so there’s very little chance I will be eaten be alligators.

ICE indiscriminately rounds up citizens, visa holders, illegal immigrants, legal immigrants.

It does not matter.

They even got the Supreme Court to affirm that the palette of your skin is a fine indicator of whether or not you spend the next couple of months in a cell for processing.

I am glad you possess the certainty that the leopards will never eat your face!

Indiscriminately is a loaded term. There is always some reasonable suspicion. Usually law enforcement always knows which pockets of a city, neighborhood have more illegal activity and can act based on that prior information.

It is well documented they have detained people who are here legally.

Citizens who showed them a photo "Real ID"!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/24/us-citizen-d...

He was interfering with the arrest, recording video etc. At least he didn’t get assassinated for exercising his first amendment rights like Charlie.

Your comment doesn't preclude the comment you're replying to being true.

I'm a white country boy hick US citizen that was jailed by CBP on made up totalitarian bullshit that was completely false. No access to lawyer, shuttled around the state in a prisoner van, etc. No apologies, just unceremoniously dumped back out when no evidence found.

It can happen to you, it can happen to anybody.

Please explain why that justifies this murder.

This is a thread about a murder, and you seem to be trying to make it be about something more convenient

I am not advocating for murder, this seems like a straw man

Quit it with the fear mongering

If this white Canadian woman traveling to California can be jailed for two weeks, then it can absolutely happen to anyone: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...

As a Canadian, I'm refusing to travel to the US right now, despite working remotely for a US-based company.

It's not fear mongering, it's real. But my motivation isn't even just fear; staying home or choosing to travel elsewhere (Europe, Asia, Mexico) is standing with my countrymen against a regime that doesn't respect our sovereignty or even its own laws.

It can be argued that a lot of this is falling into the slippery slope fallacy.

Also the media doesn’t always report the full story. Often the people arrested have some small/medium offense from years ago.

Unlikely to happen to legal immigrants.

Nonetheless, I will continue to choose to spend my travel dollars elsewhere until the US administration is crystal clear that Canada is a sovereign country, due process is a thing, and vanning people off of street corners (regardless of their skin colour or immigration status) is not the way.

Many of them have a small offense that would justify them being turned away from the border, but not an offense that justifies detention.

That’s fair. And if they can be turned away from the border, then they can be deported too.

That sounds like US immigration has always been, during the GW Bush and Obama and Biden administrations.

The argument is not in favor of illegal immigration, it’s in favor of allowing people to go before a judge before they are deported. Because otherwise you can take literally anyone off the street and deport them to a gulag in El Salvador, and we may as well not bother with society.

But this “right to go before a judge” can be misused because of how long the process can take. All immigrants are required by law to be able to prove their legal status, so the right to due process, fair trial etc becomes complicated if one is here illegally

Due process can not be misused. It is our most fundamental right.

Without the guarantee of due process for everyone, all other rights are an illusion because those in power can violate them at will.

You are correct. I reread how due process is supposed to work and the fifth and fourteenth amendments clearly say that it applies to “persons” and not just citizens or legal immigrants or anything like that. The requirements are more relaxed for immigration courts though e.g you have to pay for your own lawyer etc

As of yesterday ICE did arrest a couple of Koreans on a valid visa. Look it up.

Is pointing out irony and hypocrisy "excusing evil"?

But the person didn’t point out hypocrisy. Charlie would rather some amount of unnecessary gun violence in exchange for having the population be able to defend themselves.

Welcome to H(1B)N, enjoy your stay

> feeding immigrants to alligators

I mean the purpose of a prison is to expressly keep people AWAY from the alligators.

It's not a left/right divide, it's a violent/non-violent divide. There've been people across the political spectrum on the violent side, it's not correlated to the left or right.

I'll give credit to all the folks on the left condemning the attack. I think Cenk is a fantastic and refreshing example of that. But the the political persecution and violence is overwhelmingly coming from the left.

> individuals and attacks associated with left-wing causes are less likely to be violent

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9335287/

> right-wing actors are significantly more violent than left-wing actors

https://ccjs.umd.edu/feature/umd-led-study-shows-disparities...

> Numbers [of deaths] for right-wing extremist violence are far higher, with numerous high-profile terrorist attacks as well as lower-level assaults, vandalism, and other forms of violence. Since the 9/11 terrorist attacks, far-right extremists have killed 130 people in the United States, more than any other political cause, including jihadists.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/countering-organized-viol...

> President Trump shot by Leftist.

Actually the shooter was a registered republican. (And apparently a bullied young man looking for any politician.) https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3gw58wv4e9o

> You degenerate, vile scum.

Name calling doesn't help your argument. And violates the site guidelines.

Very intelligent argument there. It's a wonder why people don't respect you or your opinions. Clearly you're an unmatched genius, probably one of the smartest and most correct people that have ever lived

In all your examples, the political affiliation is either unknown or Republican.

Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Your brain is rotten. [...] You degenerate, vile scum.

Obviously you can't post like this to HN, and you've done it repeatedly in this thread ("you propaganda pusher", "your last remaining brain cell", etc). This is well over the line at which we ban accounts. I actually banned yours briefly, but I took a closer look at your commenting history and I didn't see you being this abusive in other threads, so I've unbanned your account for now. But please don't post like this, or anything remotely like this, to HN again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I love how one of the flagged responses was saying how Kirk's killer was on the Left - providing a perfect example of the propaganda lies you mentioned

It's not unreasonable conclusion if you believe some of the stuff WSJ is putting out claiming the ammo/rifle had common leftist interest topics on it like anti-fascist and transgender interests, but those articles could certainly be a hoax or that evidence put there to throw off police.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/charlie-kirk-shot/card/ammu...

none of this information was available when these comments were made. Essentially the entirety of the right-wing media apparatus had already made up their minds before any evidence was available

Exactly, they're casting an identity and motivation on an as of right now, unknown suspect

The intensity of right vs left political violence does not appear to match your conclusion.

https://ccjs.umd.edu/feature/umd-led-study-shows-disparities...

Those are relatively niche beliefs even on the left. There's a difference between what is said by politicians and what the general public think.

Loud minority for sure. Republicans are right about biological sex being real (it's based off of gamete size, not chromosomes exactly), but that's more of a broken clock being right twice a day.

Gender ideology had its run and is past the high water mark. When it's gone, Republicans won't even have that hobby horse.

Well then you don't have to listen to them or consider how you might be wrong then, do you? How convenient.

Literally every person who's a "Republican" is speaking purely to manipulate people, dishonestly, towards evil ends.

Oh, and of course anyone who calls out you've installed yourself in a little ivory tower - where you can mutter your very-superior-and-above-them-Republicans "liberal discourse" - must of course be a Republican.

Frankly I don't think this is even driven by narcissism, but just a profound laziness. You budging and inch from any single thing you already believe - that inconvenience - would be a personal affront, a disturbance in your entitlement to feel maximally comfortable at all times.

Booooo, go home you're drunk.

"Republicans don't engage in discourse"

"Yeah, and yet y'all still won't listen to our propaganda because _you're_ entitled."

What debate is there to be had with people who shouted loudly they wanted the Epstein files and now say they are not interested in the Epstein files? Who pretend to care for children but say gun drills and school shooting are acceptable? Who pretend they have values and vote again and again for a philanderer and rapist?

The answer was pointing out how much of 'gun violence' is gang violence, which is a valid point but seems some gloss over the gang problem so they don't look racist, so they just tell you you're 'downplaying' for mentioning it.

Mass shootings have nothing to do with gangs.

Your statement is patently false; gangs do commit mass shootings. While there is no 'standard' definition of one, let's use the somewhat accepted definition of 4+ humans shot. Gangs definitely do commit shootings that fall into this category.

That said, it's absolutely disingenuous for 2nd Amendment advocates to point fingers at marginalized groups (trans, the mentally ill, POC, etc) as the reason for mass shootings. This is a standard Conservative trope; point fingers at 'the others' in order to ignore the root cause of the issue which would most certainly reduce the severity and frequency of these happening in the US.

I'd like to point out though it would be highly unusual for someone to characterize violent gangs as "marginalized groups" even if it might truly be the case. I don't know if that's what you meant but I was having trouble following the train of thought from the gang comment by Kirk.

Gangs are often made up of POC. But; no, I wasn’t specifically including them in my statement about marginalized groups, yet I see how my statement could be seen that way.