News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by evrimoztamur on Sunday July 20, 2025 @10:24AM (#44625503)
Besides ultra-processed foods 'hysteria,' basic ratios I consider here are:

- protein to fat (which is roughly 1.4 in Beyond Meat (20g protein / 14g fat in 100g) versus 2.5-3.5 in beef (30±5g protein / 12.5±2.5g fat in 100g)) - protein to mass (20% vs ~30%) - micro-nutrients to mass (a very wide variety of minerals, vitamins, and other unknown nutrients present in beef) - carbohydrates (not present in substantial amounts in meat and around the same amounts in tofu/tempeh as in Beyond Meat; but I don't think it's as major a statistic as previous ratios)

I eat chiefly vegetarian, and refuse to see why Beyond Meat exists beyond 'we can do it and it may get more people to eat vegetarian.'

The industrial overhead of producing Beyond Meat and all the effort that went into creating it simply doesn't make sense to me compared to beans and plant-based protein friends like tempeh/tofu/seitan. Latter are an order of magnitude more scalable than both Beyond Meat and Regular Meat.

All the processing plants and factories built to make this ultra-processing possible, the logistics and supply chains set up to bring all the necessary additives and components together, the grandiose packaging and marketing efforts... I don't get it. It's not a product made for a real audience.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by hellcow on Sunday July 20, 2025 @10:54AM (#44625746)
> 'we can do it and it may get more people to eat vegetarian.'

That's a noble goal in and of itself. Every step to reduce environmental impact and animal cruelty has value.

Beyond and Impossible were my "off-ramp" from eating meat every meal to exploring vegetarianism and veganism. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by graublau on Sunday July 20, 2025 @11:15AM (#44625956)
You needed a product to help you do that? Were vegetables themselves unappealing?
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by xeromal on Sunday July 20, 2025 @12:02PM (#44626483)
Vegetables as a meat substitute were. I don't think it's wise to pretend meat unto itself is not appealing to many humans because it's different from vegetables, grains, and fruits.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by itsoktocry on Sunday July 20, 2025 @10:59AM (#44625800)
If you're going to eat vegetarian, eat vegetarian. There are lots of foods out there.

The idea that normal, healthy people are going to eat ultra processed vegetarian slop so they can pretend they are eating meat was never going to work.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by lanfeust6 on Sunday July 20, 2025 @11:43AM (#44626283)
Burgers were never considered a "health" item so replacement with slop qua occasional treat is not q crazy concept. As another user has whined about, burger restaurants almost always offer some variant of it, and grocery chains carry it. Beyond Meat has competition now, cheaper too
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by santoshalper on Sunday July 20, 2025 @12:46PM (#44626901)
Well, they do have $330M in revenue and the product is all over the place, so I'm not sure your hypothesis is correct. Many people simply don't share your view "if you're going to eat vegetarian, eat vegetarian". I think the biggest problem is that they have not been able to get cost under control.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by throwpoaster on Sunday July 20, 2025 @01:36PM (#44627386)
Animal agriculture converts scrub land into carbon sinks that produce food.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by PaulHoule on Sunday July 20, 2025 @03:28PM (#44628499)
It can. In permaculture models where you are not supplying a lot of inputs and able to cycle 100% of the manure back on grass it's great. In 20 years of running a horse farm the quality of our pasture and hay has been steadily getting better because we've been building soil.

Apply huge amounts of nitrogen fertilizer to grow corn, badly contaminating the Mississippi river and creating a dead spot in the Gulf of Mexico, feeding animals in CAFO where discarding of the manure is a problem and that's something different.

Real life systems are a little more complex than that as a cow might be grown up on scrub land and then fattened up at a CAFO for the last few months. Who knows what the long term fate of land that is cleared in the Amazon rain forest is.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by bluebarbet on Sunday July 20, 2025 @04:38PM (#44629096)
This is a regionally-contingent oversimplification that obscures the much more essential fact that animal agriculture always requires substantially more land than arable agriculture to produce the same amount of food. Land is very much a finite resource and I personally would prefer to see a bit more of it left to nature (or "scrub", as you call it).
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by throwpoaster on Sunday July 20, 2025 @07:23PM (#44630341)
This presupposes a collectivist agricultural policy, no? Some people just own scrub. They don’t have the arable land you rightly suggest is more efficient at growing the same amount of food.

Most land is scrub. You can like leaving more of it that way, but no one else will notice in percentage terms.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by seec on Tuesday July 22, 2025 @01:55AM (#44643619)
You are the one making an oversimplification.

The type of food you get from animal agriculture is nowhere near the same thing as what you get from large scale plant agriculture.

On top of that, what you harvest from plant agriculture needs enormous amounts of processing and requires a whole lot of modern machinery and a very complex supply chain. And at the end of it the nutritional profile of your output is not at all the same, you can get closer by adding even more processing, that requires even more supply chain wizardry, more energy and more secondary input but suddenly you are not really more efficient than the animal farm; how shocking...

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by piyushpr134 on Sunday July 20, 2025 @02:40PM (#44628028)
Indian here. We can eat vegetarian without this processed crap. Happy to see this die. We had equivalent companies here in India too. And they also are struggling. Happy to see this being rejected by masses
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by IAmBroom on Monday July 21, 2025 @10:09AM (#44635308)
That's a lot of vitriol against a firm that doesn't promote animal cruelty, nor encourage people to avoid less-processed crap.

They are a for-profit vegetarian company in a capitalist market, not Nestle's trying to sell African mothers on powdered formula.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by scythmic_waves on Sunday July 20, 2025 @11:05AM (#44625867)
Thanks for breaking that down.

As someone doing weightlifting, this is the primary reason I don't bother with vegetarian meats. They actually taste pretty good IMO, but they don't offer nutritional benefits commensurate with animal meat.

It's a shame, really. I'd gladly incorporate them if I could get a similar protein : calorie ratio.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by kelipso on Sunday July 20, 2025 @11:17AM (#44625978)
Plus whatever chemicals (yes, I will keep using this word, thank you) they put in it for texture, flavor, preservation, etc.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by 9dev on Sunday July 20, 2025 @12:31PM (#44626773)
There’s very successful vegan lifters and athletes, though. It’s absolutely possible to thrive without meat and dairy products.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by unlikelytomato on Sunday July 20, 2025 @07:40PM (#44630442)
if you can digest it, maybe. Thrive is somewhat open to debate. Some can handle it naturally. There is a huge amount of survivor bias in self reported vegans. They never get interviews with everyone who tried it and dropped it to uncover why.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by 9dev on Monday July 21, 2025 @04:59AM (#44633110)
Whether people dropped being vegan doesn’t have anything to do with the absolutely validated fact that a vegan diet can sustain muscle growth. Professional athletes might want to put some additional work in calculating nutrient intake, but that’s the same for any kind of diet.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by unlikelytomato on Monday July 21, 2025 @10:31AM (#44635552)
The research on optimal protein for athletes is pretty well established. I weigh all of my food and track every macro. If I ate the recommended amount of protein from plant sources, I would be grossly overweight from the additional carb and fat calories. I try plants based every year or so. It just doesn't work for my body. Not to mention the dramatic IBS-like symptoms I get even after forcing it for weeks on end to "adapt" to plant only. I switch back to my old diet and all my issues disappear in about 72 hours. After 15 attempts, I will probably try again, but it's not looking good. Maybe someday when I stop all athletic endeavors it will work out for me
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by seec on Tuesday July 22, 2025 @02:02AM (#44643649)
I came to the same conclusion. I always wonder if they are completely delusional and ignore every issue to favor their bias or just don't have the problems that we get.

From spending quite a lot of time with those people, my opinion is that they generally are pretty dishonest and will deny the truth to fit their ideology.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by xk_id on Wednesday July 23, 2025 @03:17AM (#44656555)
Just drink protein shakes? There are soy protein ones that are completely inoffensive and pea protein which isn’t tasty but much cheaper. Do professional athletes actually eat only meat to meet their protein requirements? Because even if you’re not a vegan I imagine that amount of meat every day gets pretty gross.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by seec on Wednesday July 23, 2025 @06:32AM (#44657616)
So far, I have not been impressed to say the least. First there is the problem that they often use sucralose or another weird sweetener that my digestive system does not like at all (very annoying reflux) and then of course they often taste weird at best and mostly not good at all. It's also very hard to incorporate properly into other stuff because being protein, it fluffs up and creates strong structure that takes volumes; good luck cooking/baking it.

But yes, I could try some more references to see if there is something decent. I very much doubt so because the fundamentals are not aligned for this.

Luckily, I am relatively small and I do triathlon training, not weight training so I don't care as much for volume and mass. Yet the need is still there though and it is very noticeable when I fail at balancing the diet (it is extremely easy to indulge in the pleasurable carbs, that are systematically cheaper as well). I need at least 80g of protein per (training) day and it's more challenging than it may look.

So, I try to balance things with various sources but animal meat is by far the easiest to work with. For example, I like nuts a lot but they carry a shit ton of fat with their protein, so it becomes hard to get enough carbs in the caloric budget. Of course, at this rate meat becomes just another thing you have to eat and is not really special or a pleasure. But the thing is that it's much less terrible than a protein shake, there are also plenty of things that you get from animals' meat that I doubt are truly replaceable with today's limited knowledge. I already have to pay close attention to what I eat and cannot indulge too much in some things, I'm not really keen on making my food experience completely miserable; I wish I could because it would be much cheaper/easier this way.

But I think people presenting meat as a pleasure are ideologically motivated. I dont think killing/eating animals is something humans ever did for "pleasure", it was done out of necessity and not much else. I was never a big meat eater, particularly in my youth I was very addicted to sugar and would rather avoid eating meat as much as possible. It contributed to a small frame/build. Now that I'm older and training hard I eat meat not because I like it that much but because I have to.

If you ask me, I would be stoked if I could survive just on chips, candy, nuts, or even just flavored pasta. Those things I can eat unlimited amount with no problem at all. Turns out it's not really what's needed...

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by xk_id on Wednesday July 23, 2025 @10:05PM (#44666112)
MyProtein manufactures raw protein powders without artificial flavours: soya, pea and hemp. That way you can add your own preferred/safer sweetener to the shake, or just drink them quickly raw (you can gulp down 30g of protein in under 10 seconds, it’s not a big deal). Or you can use them in certain food preparation (e.g combine with oat flour, peanut butter, water and a sweetener; make small balls that you can eat as a snack). Soy protein in particular has a creamy, silky, luxurious texture when mixed with water, very pleasant and can be a perfect substitute for custard-type desserts when sweetened, or can be used as a sauce/soup thickener.

If the craving for bullshit food (chips, candy, pasta etc) doesn’t stop, that’s either a signal for nutritional deficiency of some kind (your body is still searching for something), OR a signal that you’re not hungry enough, to eat the healthy options. I spend regularly months-long periods eating the exact same ultra-basic food every day: steamed vegetables (not even salt) and home made biscuits from grains, nuts and seeds. I don’t struggle with cravings for other foods, because all my nutrients are in there and it satiates me. If I don’t feel like eating my food, then I wait until I’m hungry enough to want it. My diet is extreme, but it proves a point.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by unlikelytomato on Thursday July 24, 2025 @12:10AM (#44666837)
those do not digest well for me.

Yes, many athletes with large metabolic demands do eat mostly meat. Gross or not, it is functional. I eat for function. Choking down chicken breasts is not fun, but it works very well for results.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by cj on Sunday July 20, 2025 @12:38PM (#44626829)
I dunno. I track macros religiously with daily protein/fat/carb targets for weight lifting.

I don't care much about the macros of each individual meal (or any individual ingredient). When dinner comes around, I'm cooking whatever meal will let me hit my targets for the day. If I already got most my protein in, I'll happily eat something with "bad" protein/calorie ratio.

Granted, 99% of people don't track food intake, so yea, probably makes sense to optimize food nutrition for the average person eating an average meal looking for an average balance of macros on a per-meal basis.

I guess my point is there's a time and place for virtually all foods (including junk food... bodybuilders regularly snack on things like sour patch kids during workouts).

Critiquing beyond burgers for their macro breakdown doesn't make sense to me. But criticisms around the level of processing is 100% valid IMO. The last package I opened up quite literally smelled like dog food.

Edit: Also FWIW, I'm a vegetarian (although eat meat maybe once every 1-2 weeks, sometimes beef). Despite that, I'm easily able to get 200+ grams of protein a day. If I took protein powder out of my diet completely, I'd still be able to hit 150g/day at least without really trying.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by Saline9515 on Sunday July 20, 2025 @03:34PM (#44628565)
Out of curiosity, how do you get 150g/day of full proteins?

For instance, eating lentils, which is one of the most proteinated vegetable, bring 18g of proteins per 100g, along with 40g of carbs. You also have to eat a comparable amount of cereal to get a full protein chain.

Given that amount of proteins you mention, this requires eating a very large volume of food (cereals and graminacae swell with water during cooking).

I always wondered how vegetarians could reach a highly proteinic diet as a result!

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by cj on Sunday July 20, 2025 @08:09PM (#44630608)
I’ve eaten 124g of protein so far today, no meat no protein powder.

I wish I could tell you one food, but it’s not primarily from 1 source.

Egg whites, chickpea salad, Greek yogurt - lots of stuff has protein in it.

On the flip side, I’ve never understood how meat eaters can hit their protein goals without frequently exceeding 50-100g fat per day.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by Saline9515 on Monday July 21, 2025 @02:56AM (#44632444)
Ok, so mainly animal products, but not meat. Regarding fat, lean meat cuts are easy to come by.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by zilian on Sunday July 20, 2025 @08:11PM (#44630622)
Tofu, 100% peanut butter with no added oil or additive, skyr yogurt (10g of proteins for 100g for around 50kcal !), there are a lot of options What's hard is not protein intake but to moderate carbs intake in my opinion
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by seec on Tuesday July 22, 2025 @02:11AM (#44643696)
For vegetarians it's much easier, they just go for animal derived products (eggs and milk based), so it's a bit bullshit if you ask me.

For vegans it's extremely hard, a lot of them that I know are proper skinny fat. Rarely overweight (or just a little bit) but with a terrible body composition.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by proee on Sunday July 20, 2025 @03:14PM (#44628366)
You are not a vegetarian
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by cj on Sunday July 20, 2025 @08:11PM (#44630619)
If you wear vegetarianism on your sleeve for philosophical reasons, yea that’s not me.

I simply prefer not eating a lot of meat.

Next time I’ll say majority-vegetarian minority-carnivore?

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by vlod on Sunday July 20, 2025 @11:45PM (#44631621)
I hate the term, but I've heard 'flexitarian' used to describe this.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by scythmic_waves on Sunday July 20, 2025 @11:02PM (#44631406)
> Critiquing beyond burgers for their macro breakdown doesn't make sense to me.

They're selling a meat replacement. Replacing the meat in my diet with their product does not work for my goals without additional planning to compensate. Therefore it's not a good replacement for me. A criticism need not apply in all cases to be valid.

> I'd still be able to hit 150g/day at least without really trying.

What are your calorie goals? If you're in a surplus, maybe. But I'm currently in a deficit with 150g protein / 1600 calorie. I do not find that I can hit this goal "without really trying", _especially_ without protein powder.

And to clarify, it's 100% possible to hit my goals eating vegetarian/vegan. But with meat in my diet it's much easier because their high protein content gives me more flexibility with the rest of the diet. If I wanted to do it vegetarian, I wouldn't use beyond meat because it'd be even harder than other options.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by cj on Sunday July 20, 2025 @11:43PM (#44631610)
Current calorie goal is ~3000 - I agree, that amount of calories makes it much easier.

Over winter/sprint I was targeting 1900-2100 (180g P). It would have been near impossible to do it without protein shakes.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by aziaziazi on Sunday July 20, 2025 @01:06PM (#44627108)
Did you try Tempeh? 20gr of protein / 150cal. It looks like a steak.

It's god's food: high prots, fibers, iron, vitamins, unsaturated fats. Low carbs and sodium. Super digestive.

Super versatile: from burgers to bolognese to barbecue to everything, even sweety for the courageous. My easy goto is a dip of whatever open sauce I already have and 1 min micro wave heating. A bit more time ? Fried on the pan with soy sauce, olive oil and some herbs afterwards.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by anon84873628 on Sunday July 20, 2025 @01:30PM (#44627326)
The parent said "vegetarian meats" so I hope we can assume that's not meant to include tempeh and tofu (but rather things like TVP or mycoprotein products).

And while we're on the subject, Mike Israetel from Renaissance Periodization gives soy protein high marks for body builders. Good macros, good price, and highest amino acid profile score after milk/meat/eggs. Having tofu on hand is definitely helpful during a bulk.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by unlikelytomato on Sunday July 20, 2025 @07:37PM (#44630428)
if only soy and beans didn't rip my digestion to shreds.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by aziaziazi on Monday July 21, 2025 @01:56AM (#44632165)
Tempeh is easier to digest: the soy (fibers and amino acids) is pre-eaten by the mold.

I can drink milk but feel the same as you do with beans. When it’s fermented cheese I’m totally fine.

Can you eat falafels, tofu or slip peas? If so the hull may be the cause. Also beans trigger gaz on many people because they don’t eat much insoluble fibers, but after a while of regular consumption it comes back to normal. Don’t hurt yourself through, take care.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by unlikelytomato on Monday July 21, 2025 @04:14AM (#44632858)
I can eat maybe one serving every few days regardless of the source. I can eat a lot of various fruits without issue(high fiber too). tofu is mostly ok. I have tried about once a year for 15-20 years.

I can eat a block of cheese a day and feel great. same with extremely lean chicken. When I try plants only without the problem foods, my energy and recover drops. I get depressed and I have huge protein cravings. If I try to squash that hunger with fats or carbs, I get fat. Just never been able to find a sustainable solution for my body

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by aziaziazi on Monday July 21, 2025 @06:23AM (#44633561)
Fruits mostly contains soluble fibers, only their peel contains a bit of the insoluble one. For your next try consider instant mashed lentils/slip peas (flakes) or lots of mushrooms if you're rich enough. Adding a fair portion of hemp or nutritional yeast also increase the protein ratio. And tempeh is really a game changer. I wish the best for you.
Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by klipt on Sunday July 20, 2025 @02:51PM (#44628132)
I know tempeh is easily available in Indonesia, but how do you get it in bulk in the US?

All I see are tiny overpriced plastic packets.

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by aziaziazi on Monday July 21, 2025 @02:02AM (#44632185)
Overlaps try to find a local producteur/enthousiast and buy it from him? Or make it yourself, it’s super cheap, but you need some time to learn and fin the right setup. Some people use an insulated chief master to produce reliable big batches at home. You can freeze the surplus.

https://www.tempeh.info/

Re:Beyond Meat Fights for Survival by seec on Tuesday July 22, 2025 @01:47AM (#44643586)
Well it's a VC backed venture by and for rich SF people. There are plenty of products like that posted on HN, the kind that only make sense if you really make a shit ton of money and have already "solved" most downstream problems in your life (it goes for business stuff too).

So yeah, this is what you get. At the price sold, whether you are vegetarian, vegan, or anything else is largely irrelevant; you have to be rich first and foremost.

And if we are talking about the product "qualities", it does not make a lot of sense: as a meat eater I cannot fathom people who pretend it's anywhere near close to the real thing, it's much dryer, does not have the burger flavor and disintegrate much like vegetables do.

And the nutritional profile isn't very good as well, as you explain. If I have to eat a lot of fat and associated carbs with my protein, it might as well be cheaper beans/veggie stuff.

All that being said, I'm not a very big fan of the plant-based protein (like tofu) stuff either. It's rarely cheaper than meat, always has a chewy like texture (sometimes it feels like you are eating rubber) and can only taste what you prepare it with. I have a friend who worked at high-end restaurants who became vegetarian and prepared it many times for me, it has never been any good. It's also heavily processed and requires a lot of water/heat to make (it also requires a lot more energy/effort than meat to prepare afterwards) and lacks many other nutrients meat naturally has.

I doubt meat is cheaper only because of subsidies, to me it seems like nature is extremely efficient and we have a truly hard time competing with it.