Not legal advice but I'm a US citizen and when I've refused to answer their intrusive questions the worst that has happened to me is they imprisoned me, stripped me naked and searched me, got a fraudulent warrant for an internal body search, and then sent me the bill after dumping me at the border when they found nothing.

Enjoy.

Can you explain what fraud was used to obtain the warrant?

Yes.

They claimed a dog alerted on me. An anonymous dog, handled by an unnamed officer in the affidavit, which was used as 3rd party inter-species hearsay via a HSI officer to the assistant attorney and judge.

A dog did not alert on me. In fact it is against CBP policy to use dogs on a person, they are to be used on your articles.

I think you posted from a new account for privacy and then mistakenly posted from your original account?

Which entry point was that at, and did you enter by air or land?

In particular if it was entering the southern border by land, I heard CBP behavior is much more aggressive.

> and then sent me the bill

wow, what a horrible way to add insult to injury

Could be worse? [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_fee]

Bill for what exactly

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44006758.

I'm wondering if anyone uses burner phones. I have an old phone, and a second phone number that I got from Tello for $5 a month, intending to use it for a business number, but then never did. It's currently completely detached from anything personal and I figure if I do need to go over the border I could just use that still for any communication and internet access, but personal details would be at a very bare minimum.

Yes. If I will have to go there on a normal visa, I will not take my phone with me, just the SIM card. For the laptop, I don't care at all, it is a company laptop and as long as the company agrees to open it up for the border control, I will, but I will set a clean password upfront that meets the minimum complexity requirements ("UperLower12345#") with no access to anything else. I have long random passwords on all accounts like email or Amazon account, I never type it in because I never know the password, that may be a problem if they ask me - who will believe that the only 2 passwords I ever know are for the company laptop and for my desktop at home in Europe?

This is not because I have something to hide, but because I have nothing to show. I don't have Facebook, Twitter or Instagram accounts, don't keep pictures on the phone (family pictures are downloaded on the NAS, I don't take other pictures), so there is nothing to show on a personal level, while the company I work for is a big, old US company and the content of the laptop is theirs, not mine, and it is nothing sensitive that even our business competitors would be interested into.

I case I would go there as a tourist, my only luggage would be my motorcycle helmet and a pair of gloves, I would rent a bike, buy a cheap phone with a local number and do road trips around the country. Not even a suitcase, so nothing to show. If they ask me about itinerary, that is a high risk for me because I use to travel across Europe without an itinerary, just a direction, they may not believe me, but old bikers don't go to a destination, they go wherever the road goes.

Not a lawer, but the ACLU has a page on this:

Short FAQ:

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...

Dedicated article:

https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agen...

Thank you. This is excellent guidance.

from [1]:

> Refusal to do so might lead to delay, additional questioning, and/or officers seizing your device for further inspection.

Then, there's no point in denying device search?

[1]: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...

Leave gadgets at home. Buy burners here. Access data remotely.

Wipe and dump burners before flight home.

Given the very real risks involved, can't your employer waive the travel requirement for the next few years?

Culture and society are a road, a path.

What if the current path means a permanent shift. What if this administration seems friendly compared to the next?

The short answer is that CBP has the right to ask to see your electronic devices and you have the right to refuse but if you refuse (and you are not a U.S. green card holder or citizen), CBP likely will deny you admission and send you home.

I had a friend who was asked to unlock her phone, and she did, and then… they did nothing. They watched her do it and moved on to the next question.

Seems like asking someone to do this is just a good test to see the kind of individual they’re dealing with. It’s not practical to thoroughly search phones at scale and plus they know people can just have burner phones anyway. If you’re cagey and combative they know you’re a problem.

It's CBP

It's not actually about any form of screening. It's a power trip. Only the dumbest criminal or terrorist would bring an incriminating device across the border and have any need to say "no" to that request.

Which, stopping dumb criminals and terrorists is important and valuable and they do exist, but nobody applied to work for CBP in order to check the phones of dumb criminals. They applied because they have strong opinions about certain things.

Still, if a dumb criminal or terrorist does slip past you, that just means you’re an even bigger idiot. So might as well ask people to unlock the phone.

LOL. Yea. Sure. That scales up well with millions of tourists.

Madness how this is being normalised now in the US

An acquaintance used to work airport security and he told me they asked to unlock/power up etc. electronic devices such as phones, laptops or SLR to check if they are real electronic devices. Apparently they were -- maybe are -- afraid of EDs that looked like electronics on the scanners.

Not completely groundless, even if I could think of more than one way to construct a device, e.g. laptop, that boots up and still explodes, but hey.

Perhaps EDs are a concern, but mostly what terrorists actually use phones for is remote detonation. A feature phone is the ideal sort of radio transmitter, modified or not, to send a remote command to detonate explosives. If security is really scrutinizing carry-on luggage, then perhaps the strategy moves to placing a bomb in checked baggage, and carrying only the trigger through the checkpoint.

So if you force someone to turn on their phone or laptop at security, you will hopefully force the decision point; even if the inspector cannot tell the difference, a terrorist is going to get real nervous and jumpy around activating the thing they intend to use as a detonator, in contrast to some businessdude activating his very ordinary mobile device.

For most people, a phone contains:

1. An itemized list of every account they have and their passwords and any 2FA they've used.

2. Multiple forms of payment.

3. A photo gallery that, in many (if not most) cases, will have private content.

4. The contact information of everyone they know, who have not consented to having that information distributed.

I find the entire idea that it's acceptable for any barely-educated border agent having a power trip with no probable cause to demand this under the duress of rejection, repugnant.

Especially in a country where police officers are occasionally allowed to "have sex" with people they apprehend - it seems like there's nothing that actually stops a CBP agent from just stopping any attractive woman they happen to see and demanding their phone so they can find nudes.

Say no? Get deported, no legal recourse.

> My mindset has always been to never give my personal phone for an inspection

Get a burner phone! Upload your entire data to the cloud as well. Either you can store your phone in the check-in luggage or restore your data once you've arrived at your US location.

So what happens if you just put your phone in the check-in luggage and say you don't have a phone?

Don't lie. If you are caught, very nasty things can happen to you.

Or even better, don't go there in the first place. This is madness. How are you just normalising this?

> So what happens if you just put your phone in the check-in luggage and say you don't have a phone?

Carry a cheap burner phone with you, then.

Related: KPMG, Deloitte Ask Staff to Use Burner Phones for overseas travel -> https://archive.is/lml0L

For what it’s worth, I recently travelled to the US from the Middle East (into Houston) and was also concerned about this.

My solution was to delete apps I didn’t want to be searched (e.g. WhatsApp) after having made a cloud backup, then enabling airplane mode.

CBP’s website [1] states:

> Prior to beginning a basic or advanced search, CBP Officers will ensure all data and network connections are disabled

And no, I wasn’t searched (thankfully!)

[1] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-searc...

For any electronic device it is advisable to take a complete backup of the unit, store an encrypted version somewhere online, and then restore the device to factory reset. Do not log in to any account that you wouldn't feel perfectly fine giving up in an inspection.

They can already hijack any phone number, so the only vulnerability you are giving up by crossing the border is the files, call log/sms, and accounts you bring with you.

> I have been reading a lot of articles about detentions at US airports and phone checks.

I travel internationally all the time. I work with companies in China, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Europe and Latin America. Meaning, I know lots of people who travel internationally with great frequency. I have never heard from anyone having any such problems. Ever. Not during this administration nor others. Stop listening to idiots pushing false narratives. It's fear mongering. Not real.

Oddly enough, I have been asked more questions when travelling to Canada (Montreal) over the years than almost anywhere else. Nothing serious, thigs like "Why are you travelling to Canada?", "Where are you staying?", "How long?", "Where do you work?", "What's your website and business email?", "Who are you meeting with?", "What is their contact information?", etc. And, BTW, all of this at the standard entry passport check booth, not a side room.

Of course, it feels intrusive when it happens. I look at it as security theater. Just chill and go through the process. Being stupid about this can ruin your trip in any country. Unless you are a diplomat, you are not important enough to bother with. Picking a fight with entry officials in any country will result in bad things happening to you. Don't be that person.

To the point about security theater: Last year we travelled to Mexico on vacation. When we got to the hotel we bought a few supplies. A couple of the items were sealed the type of plastic packaging that you cannot possibly open with your bare hands or teeth. I said "I'll go to the front desk and see if they can let me use a pair of scissors". Without missing a beat, my daughter pulls out a pair of standard size Fiskars scissors from her luggage. Jaw drop moment. She went through security, full scan, and a pair of scissors made it onto the plane. So, yeah, security theater at its best. BTW, the scissors did not make it through security at the airport in Mexico when returning.

BTW, I have also hired Canadian engineers and we've never had problems. You just have to go through the process, hire and attorney and do it right. Which, BTW, is true anywhere in the world.

You are misinformed.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44006618

That comment is 100% dislocated from reality. To be sure, entry dynamics vary by country, person and other circumstances. Law enforcement is different in philosophy and approach all over the world. For example, in the US you are not met with soldiers carrying machine guns, which is something you are likely to encounter in Italy. To some people, being met by soldiers with machine guns is terrifying, to others, it is normal. To some people being asked questions in a terse manner is rude and scary, others understand security theater and the role these people play. It's shades of gray, not black and white.

"What are you complaining about? Just be white like me."

I've heard similar accounts, and anecdotally holds up, although my experience travelling for work specifically is limited. Incidentally, as a Canadian, I've been searched many more times, if not 100% of the time, coming back from the states than going in. Security theater in both directions though for sure, just looking for a slip up. Going in to the states, I once had a slightly vague answer about where I was staying because I'd planned to camp on a long road trip. They pulled me into the lineup and then asked me again, I tried explaining but they just wanted an address and hinted as such, so I just google searched a hotel in front of them and gave them that. They've got boxes to check.

> They've got boxes to check.

Yup. That's it. And the people running entry and customs at airports around the world are not necessarily the most capable and accomplished among us. I have lots of stories.

For example, entering into Mexico (Cancun), there are probably twenty passport check booths. The line for passport checks easily had 500 people in it. Every single agent left their station, with only one left to process 500 people. That remained so for about an hour. As could be expected, tempers were flaring and interactions with this one person, in some cases, where, well, less than ideal. No supervisor in sight. About an hour later five agents showed-up. It was horrible, the agents had an attitude and travelers were tired and angry. I've been going to Mexico for a decade, this was the only time I've seen something like this. Someone for whom that trip was their only exposure would likely come out of it with a very different perspective.

Here's another one. I won't name the country because this was a thing at a moment in history for them and no-longer the case for probably the last twenty years. When travelling to this particular country is was an unspoken rule that you had to put money into your passport (typically $100 per traveler) in order to gain entry without being hassled. If you did not, the consequences were in a range between having to pay serious "taxes" on your stuff to having some of your things confiscated (typically your electronics).

As I said in another comment, this isn't a black and white issue, it's shades of grade.

Mexico uses passport control almost purely as a jobs program. At the land borders only the largest cities seem to check (like Tijuana), most of them don't even glance at you. The guy at the x-ray machine has been asleep a few times.

For first world entry they just depend on the fact the 1st world country is harsher on security than them so they don't bother. Might be different if you enter from Mexico's south land border.

Trip to Mexico. Get into the hotel. We bought a few things that had the kind of packaging that is impossible to open. I said "I'll go to the front desk and ask for scissors". Without missing a beat, my daughter pulls out a full size Fiskars pair of scissors from her carry-on luggage and hands them to me. The scissors made it past LAX security theater x-ray machines, etc. Hilarious and terrifying at the same time. Mexican security caught them on the way back, so we had to donate them to Mexico's GDP.

People get worked-up about interactions at airports without fully understanding their context and realities. Just chill, don't argue, don't be an idiot and enjoy the trip.

> it has been happening a lot more frequently.

Is that factual? Or has the media simply been covering it more due to their bias?

International Travelers Processed with Electronic Device Search

Fiscal Year Quarter Total Border Searches Conducted FY 24, Q1 10,937 FY24, Q2 11,273 FY24, Q3 12,090 FY24, Q4 12,658 FY25, Q1 12,092 FY25, Q2 12,260

(The U.S. 2024 fiscal year began on September 28, 2023)

To understand the scale, in FY25 Q2, there were 88 million entries.

So the assertion that 1) electronic searches are statistically meaningful and 2) they are increasing by any significance is just media-fed fear.

One ought to consider the UK’s Terrorism Act of 2000 — the police do not even need reasonable suspicion of a crime to stop and search a person, their vehicle, or electronic devices. https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/07/04/without-suspicion/stop...

You can also be arrested in the UK for the crime of insulting someone. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18102815.amp

As early as the last Trump presidency I was seeing people with good opsec doing the following.

1. Backup your device to the cloud (a different cloud than the default if possible)

2. Erase your device

3. Provide your empty / near empty device for inspection.

4. Load the backup after the airport checks.

It might be wise to update this with some basic changes, like creating fake accounts that are auto signed in on your device. Blank twitter account, blank gmail account etc.

Yeah, this worries me a lot. I have a quite tricky Type 1 diabetes, which I can manage well with an artificial pancreas software that's running in my phone. Now if they tamper my phone, or take it completely away when crossing the border, I am in quite a trouble. Especially after a big change in time zones, the health apps really do their job and help me settle in without medial risks in a few days.

This is such a risk right now, that me and my American partner decided to not travel to US at all until things change. Too bad we cannot see some of the family in there...