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Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by huijzer on Sunday April 06, 2025 @03:18AM (#43599553)
I found this part interesting:

> González Waite said that all of the large proprietary software companies ""are big bullies"". He has been called into the US embassy and been threatened because Mexico was using technology that was not from the US; those threats were dialed back when he explained that the government also used software and services from Amazon, Google, and Microsoft. Various companies use the US government to bully other countries, but they also use license audits as a reaction to projects that move to open-source software. Every time a successful switch happened, ""six months later there was an audit""; having the right legal team helps defend against those tactics, he said.

It matches also what I heard from someone working for the Dutch government. He said that whenever they needed a new software system, that Microsoft would send multiple consultants for "free" which all could "help" the transition to a new service from Microsoft.

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by pjmlp on Sunday April 06, 2025 @04:23AM (#43599825)
Meanwhile, all major OEMs, and OS vendors routinely use BSDs and Linux distributions in some form, yet it is the same business as usual as 30 years ago, reverse engineering hardware support.

The only "Linux Desktop" ready desktops and laptops to find at local shopping mall for normies are Android and ChromeOS devices, likewise in out-of-the-box experience for hardware support for peripherals.

[dead]
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by pjmlp on Sunday April 06, 2025 @05:43AM (#43600202)
I guess, makes you happy?
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by zabzonk on Sunday April 06, 2025 @05:26AM (#43600115)
Do you think that calling people "normies" is at all useful?
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by pjmlp on Sunday April 06, 2025 @05:43AM (#43600204)
It is to me.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by rikafurude21 on Sunday April 06, 2025 @09:37AM (#43601342)
normie is just online slang for normal people
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by cheschire on Sunday April 06, 2025 @11:36AM (#43602200)
You’re right let’s call them muggles, which has the added double-elitism of “I understood that reference” as well as the in-story elitism of the wizards. /s
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by HPsquared on Sunday April 06, 2025 @01:52PM (#43603367)
Being called normal is hardly a slur.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by cbmask on Sunday April 06, 2025 @09:21AM (#43601263)
The government could order Linux ready hardware in bulk. Also, 30 years ago, normies were able to handle DOS, which is perfectly sufficient for bureaucratic applications. They'd be able to do so after two weeks of training even nowadays.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by motorest on Sunday April 06, 2025 @11:41AM (#43602242)
> Also, 30 years ago, normies were able to handle DOS (...)

"Normies" from the 80s do not represent the dissemination of personal computing we experienced in the last 10-15 years. So far we have one or two generations whose experience with personal computing is limited to downloading apps from app stores and ,at best, check webpages. That is very far from what people used DOS for.

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by redeeman on Sunday April 06, 2025 @05:48PM (#43605241)
unless you're saying they are significantly stupider, they can learn
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by sudahtigabulan on Sunday April 06, 2025 @09:31PM (#43606598)
they can, if someone takes their smartphones away for a while.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by motorest on Monday April 07, 2025 @12:49AM (#43607816)
> unless you're saying they are significantly stupider, they can learn

I'm saying that there's a far larger portion of the population using computers, and they all benefit extensively from R&D going into UX design that allow people to use computers without having to "learn".

What kind of dissociation from reality leads anyone to believe your regular joe will even have the motivation to waste their time sitting in front a computer, open a terminal, and type commands? Some software engineers don't even want to touch a computer when they clock out, and you expect others to push themselves to "learn" something the have no interest in?

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by WorldPeas on Sunday April 06, 2025 @11:43AM (#43602268)
While my DMV and TSA use some kind of green on black terminal system, I think this is still kind of optimistic for work more complex than sequential entry. Maybe something like q4os could be employed for a stable GUI. From what I’ve seen in government work, groupware and chat systems are a definite force multiplier over a locked dumb terminal
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by zzzeek on Sunday April 06, 2025 @05:50PM (#43605255)
people who used computers in the 80's/early 90's were not "normies" at all
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by vollbrecht on Sunday April 06, 2025 @06:26AM (#43600375)
There was an interesting story with the LiMux[1] ( Linux & Munich) project. The local government in Munich used it for quite some time. But than Microsoft came and installed there German Headquarters in Munich. With that new headquarter and enough lobbying, LiMux was forced out by the then new government just the moment it got "successful".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by mschuster91 on Sunday April 06, 2025 @12:26PM (#43602673)
LiMux always gets mentioned in such topics... it's an interesting story and as I've actually worked there early in my career I've written a few times about what the actual issues were and why it failed - you might read through [1].

tl;dr: LiMux didn't just fail due to politics (although politics did play a large role and I will forever dislike Dieter Reiter for a multitude of reasons, LiMux being among them), it was set up for failure from the beginning, mostly budget related.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by deknos on Monday April 07, 2025 @08:55AM (#43610731)
Not really. I worked there. We had no budget issues. The dismissal was political.

The issue was propaganda. There are even rumors that Dieter Reiter told someone that he regretted moving away from LiMux after he had to pay so much money for IT.

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by mschuster91 on Monday April 07, 2025 @10:17AM (#43611825)
> We had no budget issues.

Depends on how one judges the state of equipment - I remember my private laptop having 4x the RAM than the city's computer... or my school's MuSiN computers running on win2k (!) until at the very least 2012. If that isn't a budget problem, I really really don't know what else could be one.

> There are even rumors that Dieter Reiter told someone that he regretted moving away from LiMux

Reiter regretting something, now that might be a first for him

Anyway nice to see (or rather: read) you again!

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by deknos on Monday April 07, 2025 @11:36AM (#43612701)
Well, computer power was not super, but it was enough for most tasks.

and musin is not the city of munich, that's federated governments for you

> Anyway nice to see (or rather: read) you again!

Dito, i hope you are fine :)

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by mschuster91 on Monday April 07, 2025 @03:59PM (#43615316)
Indeed! Can you send me an email so I have yours again?
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by deknos on Sunday April 13, 2025 @06:10AM (#43671643)
i do not have your email... but you SHOULD have my telephonenumber. i gave it to you.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by calewis on Sunday April 06, 2025 @06:36AM (#43600420)
I worked for a very old school manufacturing company based in Switzerland. We wanted to roll our own IoT platform for sensors in the factory. We spoke to MS, what they had was a load of garbage, so we decided to carry on as we were. I later found out that the MS CEO called the CEO of this company and from then on we were fighting every day as to why we weren’t using MS. This was a private company, not even a big spend, yet they got the CEO involved on sales calls? That’s when I realised how corrupt it was an org.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by noisy_boy on Sunday April 06, 2025 @08:09AM (#43600854)
> We spoke to MS,

They are out to lock you in to ensure sustained cashflow, not solve your problem in the most impartial and cost efficient way for you.

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by speed_spread on Sunday April 06, 2025 @09:27AM (#43601293)
Small companies matter because the transition to non proprietary tech is potentially simpler and thus more likely to succeed. Add a few success stories from small players in the same market, making them more competitive might raise the attention of bigger players.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by sitkack on Sunday April 06, 2025 @11:17AM (#43602039)
This is absolutely the reason. This is why startups exist, new things are easier in small orgs for a variety of reasons.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by WillAdams on Sunday April 06, 2025 @11:14AM (#43602020)
Classic example of this was when Dell use WebObjects for their shop-front --- Microsoft was so put out that they threatened their licensing deals.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by dguest on Sunday April 06, 2025 @12:18PM (#43602606)
CERN (also in CH) made a half-effort to switch away from MS a few years ago. MS had started charging them a crazy amount of money. They got a few people working on it and even switched a few of the back end services. And actually the open source stuff worked amazingly well!

Then like a year later they doubled down on MS products (right after a new IT head came in). The IT people I spoke to had no idea why this happened but no one seemed to think going back to MS was a good idea.

Discussed more here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41717607

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by ahartmetz on Sunday April 06, 2025 @02:12PM (#43603535)
When I was involved in high-energy physics (doing some pretty pedestrian software stuff), CERN switched from its beloved Hypernews system to something based on MS Sharepoint. Everybody was baffled about why they would do that and hated the new system.

It seems like Hypernews was only turned off in 2021, much much later than planned, but they did do it.

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by dguest on Monday April 07, 2025 @04:52AM (#43609290)
Everything I see is moving to Discourse [1] now.

The experiment SW is a lot like the buildings and labs in every physics department I've been to: everyone is on a separate 3-5 year grant cycle and as such is contractually obliged not to push for newer infrastructure. People stick to the same software/lab until it is discontinued/condemned.

[1]: https://www.discourse.org/

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by anthk on Sunday April 06, 2025 @12:43PM (#43602808)
They even published Scientific Linux, a CentOS like RHEL fork.
Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by dguest on Sunday April 06, 2025 @01:40PM (#43603246)
The CERN experiments and CERN IT have contributed quite a lot to open source. Part of this is necessity: when your experiment draws thousands of collaborators from hundreds of institutions and dozens of different funding agencies it's really difficult to deal with licensing fees.

Scientific Linux is discontinued, though. A few experiments went to CentOS and (when that was moved to CentOS Stream) to AlmaLinux. But practically speaking the OS the experiments are using is a RHEL-like base with almost everything important overwritten via LD_LIBRARY_PATH, PATH, etc. and pointing to a fuse-mounted file system called cvmfs

https://github.com/cvmfs/cvmfs

For better or worse this allows O(weekly) releases that change what would normally be core components of the OS.

It's kind of weird how all the interesting stuff at CERN is linux and open source, and then all the IT infrastructure is outdated MS services and Windows.

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by pjmlp on Monday April 07, 2025 @03:42AM (#43608902)
It was already like that back in 2003, the only place folks were using Linux was on the accelerator infrastructure, everyone was either using Windows or OS X as their main computer, and IT used to have a page about zero support for Linux based workstations.

I was one of the few Linux heads at the time on my group, and took part on the Scientific Linux rollout experiment.

On my group, most papers were either authored on FrameMaker or Word with a LaTeX like template.

The reason is the same as on the last agencies I have worked for since then, IT doesn't want to support Linux hardware, just like OEMs don't want to sell Linux computers (yes there are a few exceptions like System76 and TUXEDO), and most folks that really need it, get by with UNIX on macOS, or running guest VMs on Windows.

The large majority of CERN researchers aren't using Linux directly, and writing code for LHC experiments, hence why.

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by dguest on Monday April 07, 2025 @04:12AM (#43609076)
Interesting that there seems to be a shift toward Linux, if a slow one.

Within my experiment (which has a few thousand collaborators) every paper is written in LaTeX and has to build in a linux environment to be submitted for publication. All the central software work is done in one of three ways:

- ssh to a cluster running linux, develop there

- work in a linux VM on your machine (usually docker, lima, or other container management products)

- with a linux laptop or desktop

Of course the engineers and hardware developers are often using a whole Windows-dependent stack of FPGA design software, LabView, etc.

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by Spooky23 on Sunday April 06, 2025 @01:34PM (#43603200)
Most of these companies are absolutely total bullies. They’ll go to your board, CEO, governor, senator, mayor, audit firm, wherever. Punish your friends and elevate your enemies.

A big part of being a CIO or CTO is having and maintaining relationships with key suppliers. This is especially true with SaaS/IaaS, where your business is valued based on whatever bullshit churn metrics the company cooked up. Your $2M deal may have way bigger impact on a Sales VP bonus than you think. You have to be a different kind of asshole to maintain control of these guys than in the old software world.

Re:Lessons from open source in the Mexican government by cookiengineer on Monday April 07, 2025 @07:02AM (#43609931)
I can recommend watching the free documentary "The Microsoft Dilemma - Europe as a software colony" which highlights and explains how they target corrupt branches of the government, with under the table deals for specific threats and doxxes against politicians, up until "shilling" as government officials when they are not even working there, creating fake email addresses on their tenant's email domains to make it look like they have an administrative say in decisions in other teams of the projects.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=duaYLW7LQvg

Yt-dlp while it's hot. Microsoft sure sends DMCA takedowns after this one.