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Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by bawolff on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:25AM (#43566043)
I think often trump's policies are rooted in some sort of idea that is perhaps controversial but at least not totally insane, and then implemented in the most boneheaded way possible.

E.g. one explanation given for these trade policies is that trump sees a war with china down the line and is worried that china has tons of factories that could be converted to make ammunition while usa does not.

If so, there is at least some logic to the base idea, but the implementation is crazy, probably not going to work that effectively, and going to piss off all amrrica's allies which would be bad if WW3 is really on the horizon.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by pbhjpbhj on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:17AM (#43566510)
>Trump sees a war with china down the line

So is destroying diplomatic relations with all their allies and trying to force ceding of power in central Europe to a former enemy who is allied to China?

Go on with ya.

He's a prick saving himself from prison whilst being willingly used to establish an oligarchic fascist state from the former USA.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by bawolff on Thursday April 03, 2025 @06:42AM (#43567657)
If you follow the logic of it, at least to the first order - fighting a two front war is bad, forcing europe to deal with russia frees up USA to focus on china. America's withdrawl from europe has made european states panic and re-arm, and you could argue that a well-armed europe that grudgingly helps america with a common enemy would be better than a poorly armed europe that uselessly helps willingly.

The second order effects of what he's doing are pretty obviously terrible for usa, but quite frankly i dont think trump is smart enough to see that.

[To be clear i think trump is stupid, but i don't think his actions are entirely random. There is a chain of reasoning here, it just misses the forest for the trees]

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by rcxdude on Thursday April 03, 2025 @07:29AM (#43568083)
> America's withdrawl from europe has made european states panic and re-arm

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is more immediate concern there. Even if Europe still could count on the USA's NATO commitments 100% the war was a big wake-up call in terms of readiness.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by bawolff on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:09PM (#43574007)
If you look at what has happened i'm not sure. The ukraine invasion has been happening for a while now, and it has caused increase defense spending in europe somewhat, but it seems suddenly over the last three month the needle has been moving a lot faster than the last few years.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by matwood on Thursday April 03, 2025 @07:20AM (#43567992)
The problem with this line of reasoning is that Trump just pushed our allies in that part of the world closer to China. China stated the other day they are working on a joint response to tariffs with Japan and South Korea. Additionally, leaving power gaps around the world from the pullback of USAID gives China an in to be the 'good guy'. This is the exact opposite of planning for a conflict with China. In fact, it feels like ceding the fight before it even begins (much like what he did with Russia).
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by aurareturn on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:54AM (#43566301)

  E.g. one explanation given for these trade policies is that trump sees a war with china down the line and is worried that china has tons of factories that could be converted to make ammunition while usa does not.
1. US will never outproduce China in ammunition

2. Alienating allies won't help the US produce ammunition

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by p3rls on Thursday April 03, 2025 @07:00AM (#43567826)
Weird then how China had the exact opposite ideas during its last shooting war and the PLA built its entire shooting philosophy on the SKS and low-rate of fire weaponry. Type 63? Never heard of her. But I will proudly comment on @dang's teenager's first political forum regardless.

It's almost like something has changed the past few decades that is far from inevitable.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by facile3232 on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:34AM (#43566118)
I like this take a lot. I also think that America competing on manufacturing is obviously never going to happen.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by okr on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:38AM (#43566677)
Why is it obvious and why never?
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by geysersam on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:58AM (#43566848)
Because Americans are too rich and manufacturing is too cheap. If any of those changes it's a different story, but that's unlikely to happen.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by matwood on Thursday April 03, 2025 @07:14AM (#43567935)
I think there is a bit more nuance. US manufacturing jobs are never coming back. If you look at the stats, US manufacturing output continues to set records. Yes, the US is second to China (has been since ~2010), but that was bound to happen on population/demographics alone.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by vkou on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:49AM (#43566775)
Unemployment is at 4%, there's no reserve army of labor that can be mobilized to make flashlights and sew t-shirts for $3/hr.

Anyways, I hope you're looking foward to prices for everything going up.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by amanaplanacanal on Thursday April 03, 2025 @06:32AM (#43567560)
The folks who voted because of the price of eggs are not going to be happy. And midterm elections are next year.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by ceejayoz on Thursday April 03, 2025 @08:34AM (#43568712)
They didn’t really care about egg prices.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by pcdoodle on Thursday April 03, 2025 @06:00AM (#43567324)
Could be a thing? Perhaps people might start caring about product durability and stop buying cheap shit that goes in a landfill because the producers only care about shelf appeal.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by 42772827 on Thursday April 03, 2025 @07:14AM (#43567932)
This is my hope, too. But also I fear the transition is going to be ugly. Personally I feel lucky that I’m not just starting out my life — I already have high quality stuff.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by tnolet on Thursday April 03, 2025 @06:14AM (#43567431)
But then we can promote immigration from poorer neighbouring countries to pick up the work. Oh wait...
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by sandworm101 on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:55AM (#43566311)
It is the logic of schoolchildren. It is the simplistic logic of a teenager discovering Ayn Rand's wikipedia entry. (Grover Norquits came up with his tax pledge while in highschool.) The world is more complicated than any econ 099 exam.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by jajko on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:55AM (#43566315)
US has no real military allies anymore. Any shit you guys do is your crap, good luck to be polite. The times when most Europe sent some sizeable amount of military, even if often in support roles, even to your most fucked up made up invasions like Iraq is over for at least next few decades. Maybe russia will come, but for other reasons than actual help.

No politician in Europe, NZ, AUD or Canada would risk massive hate from their own population to even suggest anything like that. Right leaning were pushed to align with russia so thats a double no-go.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by jonplackett on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:13AM (#43566483)
I wish this was true, but I have a strong feeling my nation (UK) will be right there along side any new military adventures.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by pbhjpbhj on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:21AM (#43566543)
Aren't we (UK) putting boots on the ground in support of Ukraine, directly opposing USA? We're going to fight on both sides - the side of expansionist oligarchs (Russia, USA) _and_ the side of democracy?
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by rcxdude on Thursday April 03, 2025 @07:26AM (#43568052)
Wouldn't be surprised if the UK winds up trying to play the same 'both sides' game that Turkey generally tries to play. Ukraine is obviously much closer to home for the UK, but interests may align in other areas of the world.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by throwanem on Thursday April 03, 2025 @05:12AM (#43566961)
"Real military allies."
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by Gupta2 on Thursday April 03, 2025 @07:07AM (#43567865)
Given Sir Kier Starmer regards himself as New Labour and it was Tony Blair that got us into the illegal wars of Iraq and Afghanistan to please the Republican Americans, then yes I expect he might get us into another illegal war (e.g. Iran) to please the Republicans.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by infecto on Thursday April 03, 2025 @08:05AM (#43568439)
I entirely disagree with our current administration but your display is a bit comical. I don’t think there is much room to argue that the US has historically given the EU a huge margin of protection. I think about some of those comparisons where the US navy is great than the combined top n countries.

Now again it’s not a defense of the administration or to flex some sort of agenda but it’s hard to argue, the EU has underinvested in its military for decades.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by 2muchcoffeeman on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:39AM (#43566682)
How will they project power into the Asia Pacific now they have tariffed their allies and probably forgotten about AUKUS?
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by intended on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:46AM (#43566747)
There is no logic to these things. This is the emperors new clothes, over and over again.

The proximate cause for these tariffs is not some future event. This is post fact rationalization.

The proximate cause is still the ongoing “information” war which determines the perceived reality that is litigated in elections.

Earlier politicians played theater, acting as if the red meat being fed to voters was real on TV, but dealing with reality as need be when it came to decision making.

This was a betrayal of voters, who saw their election efforts result in legislators who didnt do what they said.

Trump does what he says. He believes WWE is real, and acts as if it is. His base believes it is real, and now reality is crashing with the fiction.

The fiction will prevail, because his party has also been working to build the power to enact their will.

Everyone sees logic here, the same way that everyone saw the emperors clothes. The alternative is illogical.

This is the reason potential reasons “we dont know” have to be postulated (war / China can make more ammunition)

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by KaiserPro on Thursday April 03, 2025 @04:57AM (#43566841)
You're giving him too much credit.

Trump has always liked tariffs [alas, I can't find the source for this pre-presidency, its been blown out by current events]. He thinks trade is a zero sum game, and thinks that someone else set up the petro-dollar system.

Trump has consistently and reiliably always cowered away from war. Using other means to stop it (see russia, NK, China, Iran). Yes I hear the "we're going to invade x, y and z" but they never acutally came to anything (is that because of his advisors?)

Trump doesn't think about future capacity, only future pride. Does this change "make american stronger, and other weaker" is pretty much the only calculus that he's doing.

Trump's thinking is roughly as following:

"Why do we have taxes when we can use tariffs to raise cash and bring power back?"

"Why don't they buy from us?"(china/rest of asia)

"why are we spending money on them, when we don't get any money back? They are weak."(NATO)

"Why are we punishing russia, they are offering deals" (Putin offering cash deals)

There is no 4d chess. Its just a man who's pretty far gone, shitting out edicts to idiots willing to implement them.

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by vitus on Thursday April 03, 2025 @07:20AM (#43567989)
> Trump has always liked tariffs [alas, I can't find the source for this pre-presidency, its been blown out by current events].

Here you go, Feb 2011: https://money.cnn.com/2011/02/10/news/economy/donald_trump_c...

"The comment repeated past statements from "The Apprentice" star, who has said he wants to put a 25% tariff on all Chinese imports, to level trade imbalances in the global economy."

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by KaiserPro on Thursday April 03, 2025 @08:21AM (#43568591)
thank you for this link, it is most appreciated.
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by zimpenfish on Thursday April 03, 2025 @08:21AM (#43568586)
> [alas, I can't find the source for this pre-presidency, its been blown out by current events].

Doesn't help that Google's custom time range search is complete garbage. Searched for "trump tariffs" from 1/1/1980 to 1/1/2010 and almost every link is about the current tariffs but with timestamps between 1980 and 2010.

e.g. "20 Nov 1987 — President Donald Trump issued a slew of tariffs on Chinese goods", "30 Jun 1981 — Ontario Premier Doug Ford announced Monday a 25% increase on electricity exports to some American states as a result of President Donald Trump's tariffs", "31 Dec 1999 — IMF says too early for precise analysis on Trump tariff impact", "1 Feb 2001 — Trump's Global Tariff War Begins"

Did find a couple of links that were chronologically correct - a 1999 Guardian story about Trump wanting to tax the rich(!) and a 1987 NYT story about Reagan putting tariffs on Japan.

(duckduckgo was even worse)

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by KaiserPro on Thursday April 03, 2025 @03:30PM (#43574281)
Excellent research, many thanks!
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by masfuerte on Thursday April 03, 2025 @09:18AM (#43569179)
Trump's tariff mania goes back decades. There was an article about it in The Times a couple of days ago. Sadly, it's paywalled.

https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/why-trump-tar...

Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by giantrobot on Thursday April 03, 2025 @09:48AM (#43569601)
Re:US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China – 20% on EU by mytailorisrich on Thursday April 03, 2025 @05:50AM (#43567248)
The US are never going into a direct war with China, and China is never going into a direct war with the US. This is M.A.D in action.

At most we might see a proxy war over Taiwan (i.e. the US supporting and arming Taiwan, with sanctions against the PRC). The risk would then be a widespread disruption of global trade, at which point the US would not want to be dependent on the Chinese economy or factories in any way.