What about using the probability that a specific race or religion will commit crimes then target those people with aggressive tactics.
As for the public they could make those people feel unwelcomed through constant harassment in the hopes they leave the country.
Thus reducing the crime rate by any means.
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I checked the murder rate and it's been on a downward trajectory for the last 30 years
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/fra/fra...
I haven't check other stats but what if your views on crime are being manipulated by people who have agenda that normally wouldn't be possible if the true reason was revealed?
Crime? Immigrants are doing it. Retirement age? Immigrants are spending the money.
These things are not backed up by data, but just like the US, or Nazi Germany, nobody cares, simply easier to choose an easy "solution" and blame immigrants.
https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/5763585?sommaire=576363...
That is a known fact. Criminality rate drops but french people are feeling more and more insecure.
There is a media oligarchy in France (by billionaires) that pushes anything but left ideas (the left want an exit tax and a wealth tax, the last one is the Zucman tax). The idea that immigrants are criminals is easy to spread as the prison population is clearly different than the mean population of France (for various reasons). They are pushing it so hard that the population is feeling insecure even if the criminality rate drops.
Source about media oligarchy by billionaires: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/M%...
People survive murders because medicine has gotten better. There are more attempts. It’s just that people survive them.
Also, you can’t report crimes against occupants (I know by experience). So yes, crime reports fall.
There used to be a increase of crime but it was because of what the law counts as a crime. And no, non-lethal crime didn't increase so it is not about medicine that is getting better.
France is under occupation by invaders like when France was under occupation by Nazi Germany. Can’t talk. Can’t complain. Can’t address the occupiers.
And we can’t talk about occupation. Like you’re doing now: Downvoting me to hide my speech, so that there is no problem. No crime is a problem if you can move the people who were hurt far enough from your social circle.
Parisians have developed this unique trait of being about to dodge the identity of the people while talking about it: “Man this block is so dangerous, but it’s impressive how one block away, it’s safe. Maybe it’s because it was renovated. The other day, that women arrived at 10 pm, it was dark, the police arrived too late. But I don’t understand, the municipality installed flower pots all along the street, should be safer now!”
See, never mentioning the cause because it’s socially too dangerous.
If this keeps up, we're going to ban you. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
Actually, you're right about murders, but you're wrong overall i'd say. Organized crime is on the rise since 2004? Maybe a bit before.
Politicians "reformed" the police, removed our "proximity police" which were basically social workers with physical and weapon training, who also were a great point of contact for future informants as it built a lot of trust in some cities (mostly western and northern France: it didn't work as well in the south and in Paris, but it worked truly great were i lived and their removal killed a lot of initiatives. My bet is that the failure in Marseille and Paris killed the initiative which worked great in small to medium cities).
And then circa 2008 they added another police reform that basically pushed police towards targeting petty criminals. Petty criminals turned to organized crime "en masse", and nowaday you have basically 3 crime families who run most of the crime in France. They reached Paris around 2011-2014, divided it cleanly around 2017 (i've heard multiple people talking about a missile launcher sighted in the 93 around 2015-2016 when i lived there, in at least 2 different location) and now politicians act surprised.
> French want less criminals and immigrants in the street. Whatever it takes.
Maybe it's because I spent most of my time in big cities hanging out with relatively well-educated, often left-leaning, relatively young people, but I'm not getting that vibe at all.
Yes, you do have pathological cases of badly integrated immigrant communities - for example the quartiers Nord de Marseille, and yes, I've known more working class people who have to endure abuse from anti-social immigrant drug dealers to express some pretty far right views, but I'm not sure that reflects the majority of the French population. I don't watch the news much, but when I do I don't see anything about issues with integration, mostly stuff about Ukraine and Trump.
They just said that they hadn't observed the same thing in their entourage.
> Some had to crawl, bleeding on the floor, reciting to Coran.
Are you referring to a recent event in France? Can't find any with the query "réciter coran otage". That quote makes France look like a war zone.
> Some pupils grow under oppression, having to donate their lunch meal every day.
> Some had to give their mobile phone.
Are you making a link with "occupants" from the first sentence? Because bullying and assault didn't wait for immigration to exist, and criminality in general is caused by so much factors that makes the analysis harder than just looking at correlations.
> some people are thrown in the Seine.
Search for "jeté dans la Seine" (thrown in the Seine):
- [20 years ago] Brahim Bouraam: murder of a Moroccan in Paris by a far-right militant [0]
- [5 days ago] A jogger thrown into the Seine by a drunken German, another bystander injured [1]
I don't think you referred to those actions.
> But as long as you give occupants priority and respect in your life, and you respect them
Nobody said something remotely related to that in the thread.
> don’t say anything about the occupied zone
...
I hope that you can still find some enjoyment in the dystopian alternate reality you're experiencing.
PS: I lived in a hot district. I haven't been assaulted but I know someone who has been. It hasn't been perpetrated by an immigrant, and nothing happened after. He hasn't been caught, police closed the case, and life went on. It makes me think the problem here is not related to immigrants. But that's anecdata anyway. A study apparently found no correlation between immigration and criminality [2].
[0]: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Brahim_Bouraam
[1]: https://www.20minutes.fr/faits_divers/faits-divers-paris/414...
[2]: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/04/23/no-study...
Is that truly not the case in France? I'd be curious as to the results of a study comparing this effect across both countries.
False statistics.
Let’s call it a strange anomaly that when we get racketeered, it’s arabs, when my car’s bumper was broken, it was by an arab, when I got punched in the metro, it was an arab, when my relative was raped at 7, it was an arab, and we literally have anti-muslim bollards around every school in my country to prevent arabs from using trucks to maul 70 people like they did in Nice, and other anti-muslim metal detector in every Christmas market “because we’re safe”, which cost us millions on top of freedoms we lose,
…but according to YOUR statistics, immigration makes us SAFER.
Between a reality that I can witness and has material reality, and your statistics, I choose that you are blatantly falsifying truth in order to commit a crime against humanity. Because we’re real people dying in my country and this is by design from you, as demonstrated by the orders to kill mécréants by Algerian influencers.
Or maybe you don’t have problems because you’re Muslims.
Yes. Many people feel unsafe, are affected by crime, or feel they are. Yes, people are afraid. Whether they are, statistically actually more unsafe, or not (most often aren't) matters little. If people have a problem with criminal behaviour or abuse, they have a problem with criminal behaviour or abuse. Regardless of where that comes from. Being beaten up by three Moroccans hurts just as much as being beaten up by three Frenchies whose great grandparents were also born in Marseille.
It honestly doesn't help. First and foremost because many people will now dismiss the problems you may adress, simply because they are drowned in what appears racism, or at least ignorance.
You've heard of the Italian Mafia? A criminal organization where ethnicity was literally a criteria for admission? Or, while not criminal, Jewish diamond merchants? Having a specific ethnic group specialize in a certain type of commercial activity isn't new.
When that activity is trafficking drugs from Morocco, against the wishes of the local state, it's not surprising that the organization is largely composed of people who happen to share a common language, culture and ethnicity with Morroco.
And if you're wondering why Morocco, well that's where all the hashish is grown.
You've possibly been to "Chinatown" in a large city (say NYC). Now remplace east Asian immigration with North Africa immigration, replace the stereotypical restaurants and dry cleaners with drug dealing, and you have north Marseille.
This unfortunate fact actually drives a lot of the racism. If you ignore it because it sounds racist well... The problem will remain, refusing to accept that there currently is an ethnic group that dominates illegal drug trafficking in a certain place, due to ties with the source of the drug doesn't make it any less true.
Similarly, of you're smuggling cocaine into the US, speaking Spanish is a really good trait to have. Because the country that produces most of the cocaine speaks that language.
If there's a clear, proven answer to that, one that works obviously better than other methods to solve or prevent it, then by all means: name this parameter.
In all other cases, it helps nothing. If anything, its counterproductive.
Let me give an example: a significant portion of Dutch heavy criminals, in the niche of harddrug trafficking were raised in poverty (relatively, its still the netherlands), in tough neighborhoods, by parents/families that often fall partly outside of the established social constructs.
If you look carefully, non of these parameters are "of certain ethnicity", but the enthnic group underlies many of these parameters. A populist politician, or racist, would say "they are all Marroccan". Which, except for the absolutists "all" is true, even. But it doesn't help one bit in preventing this crime, catching the criminals or preventing new kids to become the next generation.
What helps is finding the traits that do lead to them turning criminal; many of these traits may stem from their ethnic background. Mind you: these traits are by no means excuses, merely traits that allow a clearer and more effective treatment of the societal illness that these criminals are.
(Source: my ex treated a.o. criminals at a TBS. Where phyches "dissect" these people in order to treat them so that some might some day return to society)
If that were true, France would have a vastly different immigration policy. It would even have an explicit, drastic, and targeted emigration policy.
Well, half /s anyways. Working class don't want them because "they're taking our jobs". Middle class don't want them because "blah blah security". Upper class want them because that's cheap labour. And as it happens, the upper class is the class in power.
Most french don't care. But this still creates tensions, even between immigrants, say for like housing. As we say in french, it's a "bourbier".
In the end, it's the same situation as in any other country where immigration has taken over the frontline of the political debate.
And the sad reality, the maintainers for most useful OSS projects are essentially paid employees of a company. Which can be easily enticed/forced by governments.
And then there's the hardware manufacturers. Even the most hardened software running atop compromised hardware becomes worthless.
I'm french, i have not heard any people, work, street, even television or internet speak about that.
The sad truth is that it wouldn't even solve the issue, criminals will always be able to use encrypted communications. there are open source software that can't be tampered with, software that doesn't use a single server where backdoor can be put, or they could even simply encrypt their text message. i could do that from my mac terminal and Bruno Retailleau isn't going to put a backdoor in my mac terminal...