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Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by kelipso on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @07:46AM (#43253800)
There is absolutely no requirement that the US has to get involved in every regional conflict in the world. Let the Ukrainians and Russians deal with their mess. There are plenty of other regional conflicts we ignore.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by smac__ on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @08:07AM (#43254025)
The USA was part of the Budapest Memorandum. This is a pretty strong reason for the USA to provide support for Ukraine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by kelipso on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @08:15AM (#43254110)
It's a reason but it's not a strong reason. Back then Ukraine was indistinguishable from Russia, basically a small breakaway country from the USSR. So the intent was more likely that the US wouldn't attack Ukraine. Besides which, the nukes in Ukraine were never under Ukraine's control or possession, so the agreement looks to be more for optics than anything.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by libertine on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @11:02AM (#43256433)
It's just the US word signed in an agreement. Meaning the US word is now of the same value of Russia.

Saying Ukraine is a "small breakaway country from the USSR", while being the largest country in Europe is one of the most detached takes I've seen on this subject lmao

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by kelipso on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @12:06PM (#43257356)
Did you even know the difference between Ukraine and Russia four years ago? Much less 30 years ago. They were considered basically the same country.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by foldr on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @01:36PM (#43258395)
Four years ago was seven years after Putin annexed part of Ukraine. This was considered a news story at the time. So it's not as if Ukraine has only been in the news since 2022.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by dragonwriter on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @01:39PM (#43258422)
> Did you even know the difference between Ukraine and Russia four years ago?

Yes, ~7 years into the current war, I think a lot of people did.

> Much less 30 years ago.

Yes, I knew the difference, then -- when the breakup of the USSR was relatively recent and the issues in and between post-Soviet states were frequent news items. Again, I think a lot of people did.

Heck, I knew the difference when I was in grade school and both were part of the USSR. There's probably a fair number of people outside the US who have some understanding of the differences between Texas and California, too.

> They were considered basically the same country.

Were considered...by whom?

[dead]
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by Larrikin on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @02:33PM (#43258986)
Who is this average American that can't look at a map?
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by kelipso on Wednesday March 05, 2025 @09:30AM (#43266879)
Because we don't care to anymore. We don't want to be world policeman anymore. Take care of your problems yourself.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by dmos62 on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @02:28PM (#43258939)
You called defending against an invasion with maximalist, genocidal goals nonsense.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by s1artibartfast on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @10:26AM (#43255888)
The Budapest Memorandum says the US wont invade Ukraine. It is easy to do that from home.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by sethammons on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @03:08PM (#43259331)
from the wiki, 4th point in the agreement:

> Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".

Ukraine was the victim of an act of aggression from Russia. Pretty obvious that the US gave its word it would protect them.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by s1artibartfast on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @05:10PM (#43260334)
How do you get that. The US sought security council action within days of the war starting.

Nowhere does it say us has to guarantee safety or go to war. Nevermind the fact that threats of nuclear aggression came much later.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by Aeolun on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @07:17PM (#43261146)
> Nevermind the fact that threats of nuclear aggression came much later.

The threats of nuclear aggression were there from the start. What other thing do you think prevents the EU from raining death on the Russians from above.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by foldr on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @08:07AM (#43254028)
You really think that this conflict has no repercussions or implications for US interests?
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by kelipso on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @08:17AM (#43254136)
No, if the US considers it be a regional conflict, then that's all it will be in terms of repercussions or interests. Maybe in terms of vague geopolitical concerns that might be relevant decades from now, though even that is unclear, but the US is too powerful to have repercussions from not being involved in this conflict.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by foldr on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @10:03AM (#43255562)
China and other countries don’t see it that way. They are looking for signals as to what they might be able to get away with, now that the US has decided that it chose the wrong team during the Cold War.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by DidYaWipe on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @05:04PM (#43260280)
If China seizes Taiwan, we're going to do exactly squat about it. The best thing the USA can do in regard to that situation is stay quiet, and let the status remain unchanged without goading China into doing something to save face.

And that means no more moronic field trips by grandstanding senators.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by foldr on Wednesday March 05, 2025 @02:53AM (#43263976)
China would have seized it already if they were sure there’d be no US response. But if the US continues to wink at Putin’s crimes, they may change their mind.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by rayiner on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @08:11AM (#43254070)
“Repercussions or implications for US interests” is layering attenuation upon attenuation. That can’t be the standard.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by foldr on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @10:05AM (#43255599)
You’re misapprehending the logic of the discussion. OP suggests that this is a regional conflict without implications for US interests (see their response to my comment if you think my interpretation is off). I said, “Really?” My questioning that claim doesn’t imply any commitment to the claim that the US must intervene in all conflicts that have implications for US interests.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by hulitu on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @09:03AM (#43254723)
> There is absolutely no requirement that the US has to get involved in every regional conflict in the world

It is not a requirement, it's the implementation. There is a good reason why the USA was called "world policeman".

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by anonfordays on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @11:27AM (#43256826)
>There is a good reason why the USA was called "world policeman".

And Europeans and leftist shit talked the US for it for decades. They called for the US to close military bases around the world, shit talked the amount the US spends on defense, etc.

Now that the US is packing up and going home, the same people are screaming for the US to stay and continue being the exact thing they shit talked the US for. What a spectacle.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by throw919232156 on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @12:19PM (#43257514)
The US provoked the war, the US can finish the war. It is that simple.

Don't dump your wars and middle eastern refugees on the EU. What if the EU started a war in Mexico, drove 40 million refugees to the US, then left and let the US clean up the mess?

[dead]
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by the17263127 on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @12:54PM (#43257917)
Based, bro. Now educate yourself about RAND policy papers on US influence in the Caspian sea and the Black sea. Educate yourself on the perennial desire of the US to weaken Russia and keep Germany down.

Educate yourself about Nuland's involvement in the Maidan revolution. Watch Lindsey Graham on YouTube giving militaristic pep talk speeches to Ukrainian soldiers way before 2022.

But it is easier to rewrite the narrative after Trump's win and downvote dissenters. Opinion control and narratives is what the US excels at.

If you need nuclear weapons, let Jewish scientists build them. If you need rockets, let German scientists build them. If you need LLMs, let Russian developers build them.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by kelipso on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @01:50PM (#43258548)
This is all done in close cooperation with Germany and France and probably other EU countries too. Who was celebrating the Maidan revolution the most? Americans were barely aware of it.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by anonfordays on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @03:39PM (#43259591)
>Based, bro.

Soyed, bro.

>Now educate yourself about RAND policy papers on US influence in the Caspian sea and the Black sea.

Ah yes, papers that incorrectly judged the energy landscape of the future and the hilarious inaction of Europe.

>Educate yourself on the perennial desire of the US to weaken Russia and keep Germany down.

Germany has done enough self-owning to keep themselves down. Don't worry though, they'll just import a few million more third-worlders! That'll do the trick!

>Educate yourself about Nuland's involvement in the Maidan revolution.

As stated by another commenter, overwhelming support from Germany, France, and the EU.

>Watch Lindsey Graham on YouTube giving militaristic pep talk speeches to Ukrainian soldiers way before 2022.

Immaterial.

>But it is easier to rewrite the narrative after Trump's win and downvote dissenters.

It's not rewriting, it's a retelling of facts.

>you need rockets, let German scientists build them.

Or Elon Musk LOL!

>If you need LLMs, let Russian developers build them.

Russians are a non-player in the LLM space.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by dlahoda on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @08:16PM (#43261521)
how it is the case us started war insubjedt country of ua?

or you mean other countries?

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by HDThoreaun on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @12:19PM (#43257512)
Right, the leftists are idiots. Now everyone is going to start a nuclear program and the world will become much less safe.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by justin66 on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @11:50AM (#43257147)
> Now that the US is packing up and going home, the same people are screaming for the US to stay and continue being the exact thing they shit talked the US for. What a spectacle.

On the contrary, Russian tanks rolling into Eastern Europe is something many people on the left and right in the United States have always taken seriously, and judged to be worthy of the US's intervention, even if they judged some of our other interventions to be bullshit. The strange part - the real change - is that there are people now who do not.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by _DeadFred_ on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @12:36PM (#43257717)
Heck yeah bro, we're owning the Europeans! What a win for the USA! Love basing our geopolitical policy, and breaking our honor in keeping commitments on that. So much winning.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by anonfordays on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @03:41PM (#43259604)
>Heck yeah bro, we're owning the Europeans!

Not at all, we're just giving them what they've asked for for decades.

>What a win for the USA!

What a win for the EU! The militaristic "world police" oppressors are leaving!

>Love basing our geopolitical policy, and breaking our honor in keeping commitments on that.

We're being honorable by finally giving Europeans what they've asked for.

So much losing!

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by arandomusername on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @05:14PM (#43260369)
USA has not made commitments to defend Ukraine. They have not broken their comittments in defending countries they promised to, e.g NATO
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by mopsi on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @10:23PM (#43262275)
Haven't they been proven right? What was the point of decades of military spending on Europe, all those bases and other expenses, if in the end, the US simply lacked the willpower to use them as intended to stop a Russian invasion and simply gave in to Russian demands without getting anything in return? The US is losing its superpower status without firing a single shot.
Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by mitthrowaway2 on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @12:07PM (#43257373)
The US didn't end up in this position by fluke. It was a deliberate policy reaction to the nuclear weapons age. If you don't want everyone from Croatia to Canada equipping themselves with nuclear weapons and starting border skirmishes over water rights, the states that maintain a nuclear arsenal and international network of military bases have to step up and enforce the rules.

And yes, the invasion of Iraq on a paper thin pretext arguably was the beginning of the collapse of this equilibrium, and it's no surprise that North Korea reacted by doubling down on their nuclear program.

With great power comes great responsibility. For generations, Americans preferred having a monopoly on geopolitical power. The USA can certainly give up its great responsibility, but beware the consequences, because the global calculus changes accordingly.

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by honkycat on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @01:04PM (#43258013)
The Russians are stealing their rare and valuable resources so they can gouge our long term allies.

Trillions of dollars in essential rare earth materials and natural gas isn't worth fighting for? Then why EVER go to war?

Re:U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine by jopsen on Tuesday March 04, 2025 @01:25PM (#43258273)
True, but rarely do you get an opportunity to wear down a principal enemy by donating equipment to a democratic nation defending itself.

Without any requirements that the US puts boots on the ground.

It's in the interest of most countries that borders are immutable and that aggressors are made to pay.