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Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by likeabatterycar on Thursday January 16, 2025 @12:28PM (#42728211)
Malibu and the Palisades were exclusive neighborhoods where celebrities and other well-off industry personnel lived. They're not adding low income apartments or execute any urbanist pipe-dream for the same reason they're not bulldozing Pac Heights to install homeless shelters. Not going to happen. Ever.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by mmooss on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:28PM (#42728974)
It's a bit paradoxical that people on HN believe anything is possible in technology - we're going to live on Mars! - but advocate hopelessness in other matters.

It's just like technology: If you make it happen, it will happen. If you don't, it won't. Some people are working hard, developing the technology, while many sit around saying it's impossible, etc.

Opportunity knocks, right now. There's no guarantee of success. Let's go!

Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by HDThoreaun on Friday January 17, 2025 @08:42AM (#42737423)
Politics is much harder than technological innovation.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by mmooss on Friday January 17, 2025 @01:18PM (#42741511)
For some people!
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by laweijfmvo on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:05PM (#42728650)
This. It's not like all of downtown LA was leveled and we get to re-imagine it through rose-colored glasses.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by whimsicalism on Thursday January 16, 2025 @12:44PM (#42728390)
the electorate controls the people with guns, so we can kinda make whatever we want happen if we vote for it
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by caseysoftware on Thursday January 16, 2025 @12:54PM (#42728508)
> the electorate controls the people with guns, so we can kinda make whatever we want happen if we vote for it

"Do it the way we want or die" is a pretty bold take.

Are you going to enforce this or demand to have law enforcement or even military units do it?

Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by palmfacehn on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:02PM (#42728607)
Ultimately this is the basis for governance, including zoning and code enforcement. However, I agree with your sentiment.

You'll notice the loaded language used in the title of the article: "California's future depends on how leaders rebuild". Ideally I would think that the landowners should have priority in deciding what is built on their land. After all it is still at least nominally their private property.

Expect further arguments towards a subjectively perceived "greater collective good" to follow from that point. After this is established, the ends justify the means. In this case, the above poster explicitly describes the means as "men with guns".

Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by mmooss on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:32PM (#42729029)
> Ultimately this is the basis for governance

That's a myth / fantasy of gun and violence zealots and anti-liberals.

Obviously, to scholars and to anyone looking at the world, the basis for governance is consent. There are not enough guns in the world to do it otherwise. And I've never and I don't know anyone who has ever done something because the government pointed a gun at them. They did it because they are law-abiding people, social beings, and want a fair, ordered society.

Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by Ancapistani on Thursday January 16, 2025 @02:29PM (#42729776)
> the basis for governance is consent

For governance, perhaps, but not for government.

A trivial example: I do not consent to the authority of my city, county, state, or country. I have withheld that consent my entire life, and yet all those levels of government continue to not only exist, but to grow.

Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by mmooss on Thursday January 16, 2025 @04:52PM (#42731391)
You're weird. Humans normally, almost all consent.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by Ancapistani on Thursday January 16, 2025 @05:53PM (#42731933)
… and those humans who do not consent are coerced by any means necessary, up to and including force.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by hollerith on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:37PM (#42729086)
I don't suspect that OP fails to understand the importance of consent, but I do suspect that you fail to understand the importance of lawful carefully-target violence.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by mmooss on Thursday January 16, 2025 @04:53PM (#42731402)
I understand the fantasy of a world where sociality doesn't exist. Maybe nerds find it easier to calculate, not understanding the social part well at all.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by hollerith on Thursday January 16, 2025 @05:13PM (#42731580)
If our police departments and jails were disbanded and torn down, would that constitute an improvement or a worsening of our society in your opinion?
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by whimsicalism on Thursday January 16, 2025 @06:02PM (#42732023)
always a sign of a winning argument when you call your interlocutors nerds
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by mmooss on Thursday January 16, 2025 @10:17PM (#42733726)
It's not an insult to me; is it to you?
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by whimsicalism on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:02PM (#42728609)
? that is how all laws ultimately work
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by mmooss on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:33PM (#42729036)
It's not, except around the fringes. Consent is how governance works.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42729029

Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by palmfacehn on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:07PM (#42728676)
In practice, yes. In principle, it is a matter for debate.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by Ancapistani on Thursday January 16, 2025 @02:27PM (#42729741)
It may be California, but it's still the US. The electorate are the people with guns.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by piva00 on Thursday January 16, 2025 @12:37PM (#42728306)
Altadena isn't one of those exclusive neighbourhoods though.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by likeabatterycar on Thursday January 16, 2025 @12:47PM (#42728434)
Middle class and minorities in Altadena don't want to raise their families in Soviet-style apartments because some hipster urbanist thinks its best. They want SFH, that's why they live there.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by piva00 on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:20PM (#42728864)
Using those buzzwords really doesn't invite much of a conversation, even less when it's basically strawmanning from your part. Still I will bite a bit...

There are many examples of places around the world who managed to intersperse SFH with medium-density housing (3-4 stories apartment buildings) so it's not an either-or situation. For example: many suburbs of Stockholm have developed this way, it allows options based on people's budgets and needs, while also creating enough density to attract local businesses so people are not entirely car-dependent for basic necessities, creates third places for meetings, etc.

I'm preaching to the choir though, I do understand you will probably never understand or see it that way given the vitriol you started with. It's quite sad because there are other ways for a community to live that can cater to different needs where mixed-housing exists while also making these neighbourhoods more interesting and livable in themselves.

Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by grajaganDev on Thursday January 16, 2025 @12:54PM (#42728502)
But those celebrities and other well-off industry personnel are now burned out.

The city could issue no permits to rebuild SFH on that land and then buy it for 15-minute walkable development.

Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by ceejayoz on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:00PM (#42728581)
If they want to be in litigation with angry deep pocketed people for a few decades, sure.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by umanwizard on Thursday January 16, 2025 @12:57PM (#42728547)
You are living in a fantasy.
Re:California's future depends on how leaders rebuild after ... by palmfacehn on Thursday January 16, 2025 @01:18PM (#42728840)
It may be a fantasy for some, but for those who are derided as conspiracy theorists, it is a nightmare scenario.