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Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by myflash13 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @01:04AM (#42592804)
> The US is the world’s sole military superpower. It spends more on its military than the ten next highest spending countries combined.

Dubious claim. Military power is not measured in “spending”. Manufacturing is in fact a basis for modern military power, as it was the basis for US military power in WW2. The fact that China can produce 10k+ precisely controlled drone swarms in massive quantities and produces more hypersonic missiles and ships casts doubt on this claim.

Says the Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/12/weapons...

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by buckle8017 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:01AM (#42593037)
China hasn't won a war against an outside force in recorded history.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by janalsncm on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:43AM (#42593208)
Even if that were true, it would only be an interesting bit of trivia rather than a fact with predictive power applicable to the present.

The article discusses the unprecedented rise of their manufacturing capabilities, currently unmatched. It’s not clear how information about preindustrial China would be applicable.

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by throwaway2202 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:45AM (#42593218)
Not true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_Tang...

Although china does not seem to try to get in wars historically. Conflicts between for example middle east and china over recorded history are not that many.

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by csomar on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:23AM (#42593115)
It's personal/relative, but I'd consider both the Korean and Vietnamese wars to be China's proxy war after their CCP war with the Kuomintang. They did pretty well on well (Vietnam) and preserved the status quo on the other (Korea).
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by barrenko on Saturday January 04, 2025 @03:16AM (#42593337)
If you get big enough, you don't have to fight.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by curiousgal on Saturday January 04, 2025 @03:44AM (#42593453)
Did the U.S.?

Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq...

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by renewiltord on Saturday January 04, 2025 @03:41AM (#42593442)
Turkey, meet Thanksgiving.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by wakawaka28 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @01:29AM (#42592909)
Indeed, we spend more than anyone else but also get less for our money than anyone else. It would likely be an underestimate to say that our gear and labor costs double that of any of our competition.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by randomname93857 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @11:00AM (#42595493)
labor cost contributes to higher prices, but why we always ignore corporate America and middlemen contributions to price gauging?
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by wakawaka28 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @11:29AM (#42595684)
Some middlemen are critical. I used to be more skeptical of "mere merchants" but they often take significant risks to supply us with things we need at exactly the time we need them and not a moment before. They provide a service to you by efficiently getting products into your hands, and they provide a service to the producers by handling all the logistics of distribution. Some middlemen don't add significant value, such as drop shippers (IMO). But even they might be seen as providing some value, such as making it more convenient for you to buy and assuming risks on your behalf.

People don't ever ignore corporate America's actual price gouging. I think they are sometimes conditioned to see price gouging where there is none. Domestic costs are very high, and foreign costs are low (perhaps even suspiciously low; our competition is willing to operate at a loss to put us out of business). Don't get me wrong, it would be awesome if there was some obvious price gouging at work that could be cut to solve all our problems. But it is usually just market forces that drive prices high.

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by echelon on Saturday January 04, 2025 @01:07AM (#42592815)
It won't take long for China to catch up. And in a hot war, they're the ones who can rapidly rebuild.

Lots of reports say that Chinese military spending has exceeded our own if you account for their cheaper cost of labor and material goods.

China also recently (just days ago) flew two new sixth gen fighters. The US has yet to demonstrate one.

The tactical move for the West to counter is to move as much manufacturing as possible to other countries (Vietnam, India, Mexico) and hope that can put a dent in China's manufacturing flywheel. The Chinese consumer economy isn't robust enough to absorb all of the goods they manufacture (at least not yet), and without buyers the system would need to be scaled back.

Even if China was 100% a friend, you wouldn't want one country with this much outsized control over manufacturing. In the future this will be better distributed.

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by jandrewrogers on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:04AM (#42593052)
> China also recently (just days ago) flew two new sixth gen fighters.

China doesn’t really have a 5th generation fighter yet, it is more a roadmap item than a finished product. There is zero evidence they have 6th generation systems. These terms have meaning. The US has been flying 6th generation prototypes for years, they just don’t post photographs. The US has been flying production 5th generation fighters for 20 years. They have a long lead and it isn’t like they stopped development.

Also, appearances are largely immaterial to being classified as 5th or 6th generation. Most of the relevant properties for classification are not casually observable.

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by coliveira on Saturday January 04, 2025 @01:42AM (#42592967)
> Even if China was 100% a friend, you wouldn't want one country with this much outsized control over manufacturing

It's not up to the US to decide this. China is the largest car market. It is also the largest car producing country. It is the largest manufacturing country. It also has the largest number of consumers in any country, and this market is still growing. It has the largest number of engineers. The numbers play in China's favor.

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by tim333 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @03:53AM (#42593503)
The US can have a big effect with policies supporting local / non Chinese manufacturing with tariffs, subsidies and the like, as they are already doing.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by pm90 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:09AM (#42593071)
Certainly. The reality of the political situation though is that China is an authoritarian country ruled by the PRC, increasingly acting more like a dictatorship. While China’s economy, society and people have 100% the right to grow as much as they would like, those of us living in (sonewhat) liberal democracies would still want to contain the power of the PRC (and the cult of Xi Jinping).
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by tomohelix on Saturday January 04, 2025 @03:08AM (#42593317)
> liberal democracies would still want to contain the power of the PRC (and the cult of Xi Jinping)

I am not Chinese but I still find this comment hilariously offensive and tone-deaf. I can say almost without a doubt that the US has a "tremendous" issue with cult-of-personality right now. But I don't see Chinese or other countries attacking or trying to "contain" this.

The US is still treated as a nation, unified in its people and leaders, by even its adversaries. But when Americans deal with other countries, there is a tendency to say things to the effect of: "the people are fine, it is the X that must be suppressed", ignoring that this X is inherently or directly connected to people of this nation.

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by jhanschoo on Saturday January 04, 2025 @03:42AM (#42593445)
Your comment immediately reminded of this Reuters story yesterday: "Supporters of South Korea's Yoon adopt 'Stop the Steal', hope Trump will help" https://www.reuters.com/world/supporters-south-koreas-yoon-a...
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by coliveira on Saturday January 04, 2025 @11:39AM (#42595768)
Most Americans are incapable of seeing the double standards of their own culture. Unfortunately for them, the rest of the world is well aware of this.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by manishader on Saturday January 04, 2025 @07:15AM (#42594273)
If 1989 had gone in a different direction and China today is just a giant version of Taiwan, how would that possibly be better as an American? We would all be trying to figure out how to get paid in digital Yuan.

Instead they have huge manufacturing capacity sitting on top of a completely busted financial system. Look at the returns of Chinese equities vs GDP growth the last 20 years. It is completely absurd.

The financial system is imploding right now, trying to find a place to hide https://tradingeconomics.com/china/government-bond-yield

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by kelipso on Saturday January 04, 2025 @09:42AM (#42594941)
> returns of Chinese equities

Another phrase for money leaving the country without goods coming in?

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by coliveira on Saturday January 04, 2025 @11:37AM (#42595757)
> returns of Chinese equities vs GDP growth

The equity market is just one place where companies can go to receive investment. In China this is a small part of total investment pool. So, no surprise that these equities don't go as fast as the rest of the economy, there is a lot of competition. In the US this is the reverse because traded companies are allowed to swallow more and more of the real economy.

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by klipklop on Saturday January 04, 2025 @01:19AM (#42592866)
The irony is in a world war China would likely take over the manufacturing plants the west built in places like Thailand and Vietnam to assist China in the war effort. Further bolstering their war time production.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by coliveira on Saturday January 04, 2025 @01:44AM (#42592981)
Let's not even talk about Taiwan, which will be the first target, and its plants will all produce chips for Chinese products.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by wumeow on Saturday January 04, 2025 @01:47AM (#42592990)
Those plants will 100% be destroyed/disabled in the event of an invasion.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by seanmcdirmid on Saturday January 04, 2025 @01:49AM (#42593000)
Those plants depend on a lot of imports for spare parts and raw materials, even if China took them over tomorrow somehow intact with with the people to operate them, they would be out of commission in a month or so.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by okasaki on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:55AM (#42593263)
They say that but it doesn't really make sense to actually do it.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by coliveira on Saturday January 04, 2025 @09:44AM (#42594950)
Even if that is possible (unlikely), it will be a big blow to American power because Taiwan produces the best of semiconductor technology.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by Mistletoe on Saturday January 04, 2025 @03:58AM (#42593528)
Can we even talk about a world war like this in the nuclear era? Wouldn't we all just annihilate each other with nuclear weapons if we had a full fledged war?
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by marcosdumay on Saturday January 04, 2025 @12:43PM (#42596311)
The more time Russia spends in Ukraine, the more evidence we get that no, we won't just annihilate each other. We will probably do something more complex.
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by aurareturn on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:52AM (#42593250)
>manufacturing plants the west built in places like Thailand and Vietnam

What are these?

Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by fragmede on Saturday January 04, 2025 @03:41AM (#42593440)
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by aurareturn on Saturday January 04, 2025 @04:11AM (#42593600)
Did Apple build these factories?
Re:China is the manufacturing superpower by rat87 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:25AM (#42593124)
Invading Thailand and Vietnam would likely lead to a military alliance of them US, Japan, the Philippines, Australia and possibly South Korea. If they just want Taiwan at least for now it seems like a bad idea to get all the other countries to enter the war