throwaway2202

Not the case when taking into account recent history, or old history and politics. Obviously to say china was the country historically getting faraway lands to fall in line by economic means is opposite of reality. Tiktok is also political and so on. And yes they got mad when other countries do it. At least they used to, I think less so recently but I’m not sure since I don’t bother reading the news anymore when it feels like a repeat.

Not only just a superficial change, and if anyone calls it parsi in iran they just come across like a literary person, it’s that Classical persian literature as we know it is from after arab era until 1300s. Persian imported arabic words and used them widely in its literature. Maybe an analogy is english should be called Anglish.

The difference between Persian and Farsi matters in english world because it is political. In english, Farsi doesn’t carry prestige, same way iran doesn’t carry Persia. But they do for those in iran. I’m not familiar enough with afghanistan to know first hand, but perhaps same can be said for Dari. I might be wrong though on this last one.

Fair point.

There was a point in history when science was not public. Even after it became public, moat was still a thing.

Not true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_Tang...

Although china does not seem to try to get in wars historically. Conflicts between for example middle east and china over recorded history are not that many.

The concept of "modern” nation-state is modern and therefore new, it cannot be otherwise.

The original comment remarked on nation-states, and that they have existed in the past. They are not new as far as I am aware.

I’m going off old memory here, but I happened to have his C++ book in late 90s. I read that before I learn C. In intro he claimed strongly no need to learn C. Just learn C++. I was young and just followed his wisdom. Obviously there’s zero replacement for learning C before C++. I can at best say I lost a lot of time confused about basic stuff. Until I gave up, ignored him and learnt C like I should have. I was in school, I did not expect to come across faith based software development. That’s a different course.

Tomatoes were brought from the new world. Quick googling says Strawberries are also from Europe. That would give the Farang prefix.

I actually do not know. But there’s a wikipedia page on Farang that suggests this could be the case!

I can’t recall having the sour variety of lemon in Iran. There’s lemon (english lime), and there’s sweet lemon. Well, it is only sweet if you have it in the first couple of seconds after opening. After exposure to the air, it doesn’t taste that great.

Frankish is what Farangistan and farangi was derived from. Referring to the Franks of course. I think it is from middle ages or earlier, if I’m not mistaken.

The second persian empire did this. Well, in reverse. They tried to preserve books in high dry lands, believing there will be flood (coming from the west if I remember correctly).

Beef is cow, lamb is sheep, etc. are there languages that have the same word for the food and the mammal?

Why call it temporal correlation when it neither denies nor establish causation? what can establish causation in this case? Unless one attempt to go back in time, recognize he is not banned yet he has put an issue in the tracker. Source hut requests were denied as would be expected from a corporate machine. Now the machine realized it should do damage control. we can repeat this test and check for causation where corporations do damage control without the need for time travel.

There was also the economic aspect.

Inheritance to daughters and widows was developed and enforced by muslims, and I hear in turn families became motivated to marry among their own to keep the wealth in the family.

Unfortunately saying nothin used to be a thing. It was the wise thing to do. But just like how publish and perish became a thing, it is not wise to say little and selectively. Check twitter.

I don’t support the government in charge there. However the peace OP brings up in their other comment is extremely important, They tell us every other month they want to attack Iran, they literally did so three times in 20th century, and twice in 19th (and much worse when including russia, which was aligned with the english against the french).

Iran has not initiated any war since 1820s, and was neutral in both world wars. People die in wars.

The OC is not suggesting any support or disagreement regarding the execution.

Source? Looked for Source! There is None that would implicate Iran in any way. Even somewhat the opposite:

According to Armenians themselves:

verbatim from Armenian historian https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vartan_Gregorian :

""" Many Christians, and even Muslims who were adherents of the Ithna ashari form of Shicism (aka pro safavid iran) were carried into captivity during those years. [21] (by ottamans)

Simeon Tigranakertsi, contemporary source, wrote "no one can describe either through writing or through speech the difficulties of times.",[22] In 1586 one who tried to do just that, the scribe Arakel Sarkavag, attributed all the ill to the of sin accumulated by those who received the wrath of the epidemic of death through the sword, and starvation was not the end, he wrote, because after that the wolves dug into the graves and ate the dead.

* These conditions, compounded by heavy taxation, resulted in the first wave of immigration of the Armenians from historical Armenia to Isfahan. According to Arakel Davrizhetsi, the contemporary historian, this first wave of immigration included both Armenian notables, other property owners, and peasants; they were: Sarukhan beg and his brother Nazar Jalal beg and his cousins, Oghlan Keshish and Ghalabeg, Melik Sujum, Melik Pashik, Melik Haigazn, Melik Baben and the entire inhabitants of four Armenian villages emigrated to Persia, and asked for the Shah's pro- tection and settled in Isfahan. At the time there were already individual Armenian merchants in Isfahan. One of these prominent merchants, Khwajah Nazar, had received a royal edict in 1586 granting him individual protection and freedom to trade widely within the realm of Safavid Persia [25].

Immigration from the war-torm borderlands of the Safavid empire to its secure interior was not confined to Armenians alone. It included Kurdish chieftains, such as Ghazi Kh&nand Hayat Beg Ulamayoghli, and various Georgian noblemen disaffected from the Ottoman camp. Others included poverty-stricken peasnats fleeing from the chro- nic wars, heavy taxation and religious persecution.26

The Armenian Catholicisate in Etchmiadzln, near Erevan, the center of the Armenian Apostolic Church, ini- tiated contacts with the new rule of Safavid Persia, shah cAbbas I (1587-1629). The Catholicisate, a bone of conten- tion between rival Catholicoses, heavily indebted and convinced that Shah CAbbas would surely attempt to regain territories lost as a result of the Ottoman-Persian treaty of 1590, established contact with Shah cAbbas. One of the Catholicoses, along with two Archibishops, went to Isfahan. They were well received by the shah who, motivated to attract commercial and artisan classes to his realm and to forge an anti-Ottoman coalition of Shicite Muslim, Georgian and Armenian leaders of Transcaucasia in his forthcoming campaigns against the Ottomans to recapture the lost territories of Armenia, Georgia, Kurdistan, Azerbayjan and Tabriz, its center, encouraged and welcomed disaffected leaders and emigrees from the Ottoman empire. Sh&h cAbbas accepted various Armenians into his service and according to Sherley was impressed with their competence and abilities.28

Further:

Shah Abbas also demonstrated a friendly diplomacy on the personal front. In an effort to win the affection of his new sugjects and to demonstrate to others the esteem in which he held these Armenians, he paid periodic visits to the homes of such notables of New Julfa as Khw&jah Safar, Khwajah Nazar, and their children, Malikagha, Sultanum and Sarfraz. He encouraged his ministers to follow his example. He even attended church services on the occasions of Easter and Christmas. In addition, the shah gave the kalantar of New Julfa one of his royal seals. This was particularly use- ful as a means of facilitating travel, bypassing otherwise necessary red-tape, and especially in making transactions and guaranteeing them with the shah's own seal.

According to Armenian tradition, in cases of disputes pitting his Christian Armenian subjects against his Muslim ones, the shah sided most of the time with his new subjects. In thus siding with the Armenians, the shah would stress that they had left their fatherland, their riches and their homes, and had come to Persia; therefore, trivial disputes should not obscure the fact that they were valued guests. Furthermore it had cost the king one thousand Tumans to bring each Armenian to Isfahan. All these sacrifices, the shah used to say, he had done not in the interest of the Armenians but for that of Persia. Such was the freedom of Armenians enjoyed that when in the bazaar disputes arose between a Muslim and an Armenian, the Armenian had the equal right with the Muslim to curse and cuss in kind, without fear of retribution.50 """

sounds true about Ottomans. Wonder what was their point though.

You might already know better, but looks like short story is it was war zone. they looked towards the persian king for protection, moved to persia, 15 years later scorched earth policy was carried out, to keep the ottaman army out, Which worked. Shortly before this Armenians were told to move to iran. And the king did right by them.

Quick google scholar search explicitly for deportation didn’t help. I did find citation free red template wikipedia pages with titles such as forced deportation of armenians to iran, seemingly waiting for biased history to be inserted.

Also trivia they can have wine at home Today in Iran, whereas those of a muslim family can’t.

Reference: Vartan Gregorian, Minorities of Isfahan: The Armenian Community of Isfahan 1587-1722, Iranian Studies, Vol. 7, 1974

This seems disingenuous on most grounds. Are you serious? To me it tends to anti iranian than pro.

Pre-islam persian language continued in iran until 10th century at least, and it evolved into modern persian. Abbasid revolution was pro-iranian. Persians writing their work in arabic is no different than everyone writing in english today. Communicating in english is not bad, Is it? benefits obvious. English to a persian today, is what arabic was 1000 years ago. Both are taught in school.

Iran is not itself related to muslim expansion in india. Iran itself had been conquered by saljuks, and so was baghdad and a byzantine emperor (Check saljuk empire. read the account of their take over of middle east, you might get some perspective). India was conquered by Mahmud ghazni who is not persian and he also takes over some iranian cities.

Timur sack of delhi is decidedly not iranian, iran was revolting against timur itself. Mughal dynasty of india was supported initially by iran, via safavids, and it was probably an improvement over what was in delhi before which I think Timur had left. Taj mahal isn’t too bad. Some people of lower caste in india probably converted to islam, probably because it freed them. But I’m not familiar with india enough to know the extent.

Muslims did restrict zoroastrians and manichaeism. Zoroastrian was also state sanctioned. Extent of their religious prosecution seems less generally (although check Mani, and Mazdak), but muslims also legally accept christianity and judaism.

Not to defend this government really, but the graphs tells us iran was in war and was sanctioned. The graphs still tell us it is sanctioned.

The economic progress in gdp measures or revolution capacity measures? The shah himself thought it was the US who caused his situation.

Atrocities of safavids were after iran was completely destroyed by mongols and timur. Safavid were not the most peaceful, but compared to their predecessors, they were very good. For example they did not cement men alive. Instead built mosques and reunified the land.

Ajam and arab is valid. But sassanid empire was a caste society. So which caste were the arabs? I actually don’t know. Sassanid in its last 20 years have extensive war campaigns, regicide and mutinies.

Mongols turning persian into main language seems like an anti-arab measure. But I am not sure.

What something is used to mean differs from whether it makes sense objectively. Ming existed independently of observer obviously, and sciences are objective by definition.

Objectively one also considers if people move, and flow of money. I can’t tell what is there that make a region a key factor in determining light or dark ages of physical sciences.

Maybe basij in theory was meant to be representative, in practice at best representative of 10% of students in a technical university. Maybe even 15 some place. But at some building at sharif, easier to detect gravitational waves.

To give benefit of the doubt, one may attend one of the social science universities focused on religious studies, where basij is more representative or actually is, and extend this to sharif. But those universities are not representative of all universities, even assuming they don’t have alternative criteria for admission. I am not sure but I think they do.

It’s far easier to communicate to conservatives and seculars and everyone really that this disturbance is backed by foreign states (as it is their official public policy), than to make an inaccurate claim that alienates one’s cause, whatever that is. If religion to protect one’s country, could be reason to be moderate.

Edit: Missed the gay part. It’s more complicated than it looks. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Iran . But while I agree there’s official repression, I heard an argument once that a gay person who keeps it private is capable of natural reproduction in iran, whereas in the modern western gay family, they have to go through surrogacy, which is not cheap and outprices some men, not sure if even common. So in this sense the percentage of gays in the US will shrink over time but they have good gay rights. The other is the Iranian government repression rarely comes into action. if a male is known to be gay by those around him, good chance he won’t get reported to government since the punishment is too extreme for anyone to bear it on their conscious, even if the person is truly religious, they prefer to be wrong, and if they are correct, government and the muslim law requires witnesses or conclusive evidence, otherwise defamation. Muslim law bans gays, it "happens" to ban defamation but not sure what is the punishment of the latter. So in this climate the way of loudly claiming gay rights on streets not only embarrasses one’s acquaintances since defiance of norms, it is actually self-sentencing. This is a tight bound, but there’s no law in iran or anywhere else I assume that forces men to marry anyone throughout their lives. There’s formal repression, less rights, but reality is also important.

To add the economic situation is consequence of trump pulling out of the nuclear agreement, sanctioning, and democratic administration keeping the status quo.

@dang my other comment is dead. Flagged or not according to guidelines?

At mild risk of getting downvoted.

At least in the last 10 years, the protests has been motivated by economic situation. people don’t like the government but they also remember how bad the last revolution was, iraq-iran war after it on top.

Iran’s banning of abortion matters far less than gov successfully promoting lower number of children through the 90s. Matters far less because numbers, easy to verify.