> I've been urban biking for years. It's no doubt dangerous. I don't think you become complacent like you do when when driving.

Also: motorcycling.

Generally recommended to always assume you're invisible. There's even an acronym for it: SMIDSY, Sorry mate, I didn't see you.

* https://www.brm.co.nz/s-m-i-d-s-y-road-craft/

* https://www.webbikeworld.com/scientific-studies-explain-smid...

I take it one step further: I'm not only invisible but am being actively targeted with prejudice by those who can see me. You very quickly develop a knack for predicting what "cages" will do at any given moment.

As a pilot, there is a sense of "falling behind the aircraft" when your situational awareness diminishes --- getting ahead of the plane by 30 seconds, then 5 minutes, and then 30 minutes translates to non-flying tasks/jobs too. It's a great mindset for "incident management" in any field.

Exactly this.

Part of the experience of riding a motorcycle is being acutely aware of your surroundings at all times.

I rode a motorcycle as my daily commute for years, and then when I switched to a car it felt oddly strange how little I had to pay attention:

(Possibly controversial belief: riding a motorcycle makes you a better car driver. Motorcycling has made me pick up habits like always looking over my shoulder and not solely trusting my mirrors when changing lanes)

> (Possibly controversial belief: riding a motorcycle makes you a better car driver. Motorcycling has made me pick up habits like always looking over my shoulder and not solely trusting my mirrors when changing lanes)

I hope that's not controversial, I fully agree with it. Riding a bicycle does pretty much the same thing, even though the evasive maneuvers take a different form. Motorcycles probably train some instincts that are more relevant to driving a car, though, given the speeds involved. Also, motorcycles train people better because they apply more selection pressure: there are plenty of inattentive bicyclists, and most of them are still aboveground. The inattentive motorcyclists, on the other hand, aren't around anymore to drive cars.

Not controversial as far as I'm concerned. I used to say, only half joking, that all car drivers should have to learn to ride a motorbike.

I stopped riding a motorbike when I had kids. I was a pretty safe rider and still nearly got hit twice by car drivers assuming that, if cars weren't moving, nothing else on the road would be.

Once by someone in stationary traffic deciding he'd had enough and was going to turn and drive the other way without checking his mirrors (I was going slowly enough that I could just about stop although I came off the bike). And once when a driver suddenly shot out of an invisible side road at speed (again, no cars were moving on the main road).

> (Possibly controversial belief: riding a motorcycle makes you a better car driver. Motorcycling has made me pick up habits like always looking over my shoulder and not solely trusting my mirrors when changing lanes)

Completely agree:

1. Finding the gaps in traffic, and hanging out there and chilling. Cars always cluster together. If I crash when I'm in a gap, it's my own fault. But I'm not going to crash because someone veers into my lane while watching Youtube.

(Benefit of motorcycling where lane splitting is allowed: the gap may be ahead, as well as behind. Plus it feels really good to get in front of everyone else when they're all jockeying together to get ahead.)

2. Following distance. Why does everyone follow one car length behind? This is basic driver's ed. If I'm further back I've got time to dodge obstacles, account for slowdowns and react to crashes ahead. This is closely related to #1.

3. Using my turn signals, religiously. I turn them on well before a lane change or turn.

4. Memorizing my route, to avoid distractions. When motorcycling, I don't want my phone out. I need to be caffeinated, laser focused, and geared up for battle.

5. Being comfortable going slow. If I wanted to be fast, I should have put on my helmet :)

You don't get a Swedish license if you don't turn your head when switching lanes. It's weird that the country of driving has so low requirements and quality of driving

This is true in the US as well. It's just that people don't always drive like they do during their test.

SMIDSY is one very good reason for ATGATT

Not quite an acronym but to complete the trifecta, sometimes nobody was at fault and you just haddalayerdown (because we all know steel and human flesh are much better at slowing a motorcycle down than wimpy old rubber)

Cue an extremely vivid memory of a rainy drenched Washington DC street awash with glare and sparkle from the street lights. Car in front of me lit the brakes, and I grab the front handbrake on my little 250 to.... nothing. No result. "uh" escaped my mouth as I grabbed a somewhat panicked handful of brake and slammed on the rear again to.. absolutely nothing except a lighter rear wheel. Finally had to just lean into a quick hard veer into the oncoming lane cause the wet and my small bike was just gliding. I learned that day that my last word will probably be "um"

I've a similar story, but 35 years ago, a situation which was entirely my fault, 100cc and 'shit'.

Ended up with a sore knee, bent forks and a realisation that leaning plus braking in the wet is a great way to make a nice groove into the asphalt!

That sounds dignified. I had a 911 a few years ago and it aquaplaned on the motorway at ~160-180kmh, spun 180º, and sent me into the central barrier.

I learned my last words were "AAAAAAAAAAAGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!"

When you say 'gliding' you mean the... what? I'm confused. When you lock the front in the wet, 'nothing' is the best possible outcome and even then doesn't last long enough. I'm assuming your 250 had ABS and the 'nothing' was it not dramatically flopping you onto the road. (As an aside, I used to hate ABS and I've now totally come around to it. New ABS is so incredibly much better than old ABS.)

Also there's no such thing as a quick hard veer in the wet, the road is like oiled glass.

No ABS on the 250 and I agree, I won't buy anything without it ever again.

By "gliding" I mean the acute sensation of the loss of weighted-ness on the road. Like when you hit a patch of ice in a car or when you're at a severe lean angle and the tires start to skip a little.

Let me assure you, there very much is such a thing as a quick hard veer in the wet. My fingers on the keyboard right now are proof, ha-ha

Oh god, that quite literally figuratively literally gave me whiplash. I've heard that "had to lay her down" line and... there is no, absolutely NO situation in which you have to "lay her down". Well okay, maybe if you're trying to slide under a semi-trailer, Bollywood style. Exception that proves the rule, and all that.

Edit: You do definitely hear that, though. Not saying it doesn't fit, just that I don't like it. :D

Except if you’re wearing black: then drivers and pedestrians will scream at you to tell you how invisible you are.

No complacency is very real and necessary. When I bike everything is my responsibility, my life is in my hands, so I’m not looking to finger-point when a driver does something stupid or rash — it’s on me to be notice, anticipate, and react so that I don’t get killed.

> "I've been urban biking for years. It's no doubt dangerous... Part of my commute was on a path off the roads, it was nice."

Ironically, in 10+ years of cycling in London, the worst accidents I've ever personally witnessed were bike-on-bike crashes on the crowded cycle lanes! Broken bones, possible head injuries, ambulances and police called. I do recall one near-miss involving a bus and a few dooring accidents but nothing the cyclist didn't walk away from.

I think the problem is that in a lot of places in the west bicycles are forced to mix with motor vehicles, and away from pedestrians.

This always seemed like a weird trade off to me - “you are inconveniencing some pedestrians, so go in this other lane where you can die”

I grew up in Eastern Europe, where technically the laws are similar, but no policeman is going to stop you for riding on the sidewalk. So you naturally mix with pedestrians - that means you travel slower but a lot safer.

I remember going to Barcelona ~ 10 years ago and renting some bicycles to explore the city. I knew that this would be a different experience since the laws are different, but my partner at the time just didn’t care to follow local laws, so she just went on and started going on the sidewalks. The locals were _very_ strict in directing you off of them, no police got involved but I could see that happening if you tried to do that more.

Now I went there last year, and it was like the locals have “lost the war” on that - maybe because the city has built enough bike lanes that the few places where you _had_ to go on a sidewalk you weren’t that much of a nuisance or because the sidewalks themselves got bigger or something else, but the experience was a lot more pleasant than anywhere else I’ve cycled.

Bicycles should _not_ mix with cars in my opinion - let those travel at high speeds, just make mixing of pedestrians and bicycles regulated and safe and all would be well.

Mixing pedestrians with bikes runs into its own set of issues, at high enough density bikes simply can’t be ridden.

Really there’s no one solution that works at every scale. Bikes on sidewalks are also far less safe in deaths per mile than it seems.

> Really there’s no one solution that works at every scale

Get private cars out of cities. That works

Cities are more than just ultra dense urban cores and megacities. Cars work well for stand alone cities under ~500,000 people.

That said, America relies heavily on public transportation even in smaller communities we just call them school buses and ignore em. So cars aren’t the cheapest option even at these scales, but they can be quite convenient when there’s minimal traffic issues.

I live in Thessaloniki, where you can get pretty lucky: The city is built along the coast, so there's a large boardwalk spanning the entire coast, it's pretty broad and has a nice bike lane. You can cycle from one side of the city to the other in 20 minutes or so, and the boardwalk is so broad that pedestrians tend to have enough space to stay out of the bike lane. It's an extremely pleasant way of transportation.

If you cycle anywhere other than the boardwalk, though, Greek drivers are going to kill you, but I've developed coping strategies (using side-streets).

Bicycles and pedestrians should absolutely not be mixed! What needs to happen are dedicated bicycle lanes and reduced car traffic.

They can be mixed off traffic is rather low and the path is wide enough (basically plan for the encounter of a pram in one direction with a cyclist with trailer in the other direction). But that typically doesn't work for sidewalks in many cases because they're either too narrow or have too much foot or bike traffic.

E-bikes and cargo bikes are also a lot heavier than other bicycles and are getting more common. Due to higher mass and being powered they're quite a bit more dangerous to pedestrians.

This generally works were the traffic is low, in sub urbs and on specific paths(not sidewalks in metropolitan areas). combined pedestrian walk and bicycle paths are possible, in sub urbs and in more rural areas, though even there they should generally be split and only used for overtaking:

https://www.osteraker.se/images/18.5bb0400617c11d33b551007/1...

In bigger cities where the foot traffic is high, it's absolutely not possible, in my opinion.

I'm very much an "old school" commuter cyclist, I started way before this current movement towards vision zero and separated bike infrastructure, to provide context. Bicycling is my main transport and has been for 15 years now.

I practice "vehicular cycling" and love being in the road. I also choose routes where I can maintain at least 75% of the speed limit, so lots of 30mph roads.

It's definitely sketchier than the new style infrastructure that's popping up, but it's also way faster. I use a radar and mirror for safety and I keep the speed delta between traffic and myself at a minimum. Only serious injury I've had was getting creamed by an incoming drunk driver at speed.

Best world would be keeping pedestrians, cyclists, and cars all separated for maximum convenience. But failing that, I'd much rather be in a painted bike lane than on a sidewalk.

I think it depends if I'm coming home from the gym late at night I might be less aware than when I'm my usual self. Especially if the roads are quiet. I've had two near calls in London - once an uber driver swung in front of me out of nowhere to pick up a passenger and it was wet so my bike couldn't stop in time and I went into the back of them. The other a car was parked in the cycle lane and they opened their door just as I was passing.

I am now even more aware and paranoid when cycling but my real solution has to optimise my routes for reduced stress rather than speed or distance - I'll happily take a longer route if I know it's much more chill

> I've been urban biking for years. It's no doubt dangerous

Yes

I gave up using my bicycle in the city. It was very good for me, but one mistake and it would be very bad, easily terminal

It is easy to make bicycling safe(r): get rid of the cars

Cycling isn't very dangerous. The average cyclist will outlive the average driver. The health benefits of regular cycling over a lifetime outweigh the risks.