News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by bhouston on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:58PM (#42072050)
> Like imagine if China owned CNN and the New York Times and decided what stories they could publish.

It is happening on our local platforms here. Meta, based in the US, is systematically censoring Palestinian content that would otherwise be available here in Canada.

Details:

* https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/...

* https://theintercept.com/2024/10/21/instagram-israel-palesti...

For a very recent example, one of the few remaining prominent Palestinian journalists, with a following of over 1M on Meta, was banned today:

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/11/7/al-jaze...

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by epolanski on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @08:09PM (#42072139)
Didn't you read the memo from the government?

Israelis can do whatever they please and kill hundreds of people everyday, they literally destroyed 8 buildings full of people with many children to kill a single Hezbollah leader.

But how can I be surprised when more than a decade ago the same things where happening on US hands towards Iraqis or whatever. Drone kills 200 people in a market? Yeah but an Al Qaeda operative was there buying spices, so worth it.

We became numb to those tragedies. In particular when violence and death is happening by drones and bombs rather than someone pointing their rifle at you, it seems like it makes it less violent when I find it absurdly evil, cold and detached.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by sattoshi on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @09:03PM (#42072490)
Moot point because Trudeau basically banned all news from being shared on Facebook
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by bhouston on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @09:22PM (#42072625)
> Moot point because Trudeau basically banned all news from being shared on Facebook

You can still follow individual reporters posting their own content. For example I can access both https://www.instagram.com/wizard_bisan1/ or https://www.instagram.com/clarissawardcnn/, etc.

But I can not access the organization pages like https://www.instagram.com/cnn/

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by throw1230 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:05PM (#42073281)
Trudeau didn't ban news on FB, FB banned news posted to Canada because they don't want to pay publishers.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by sattoshi on Thursday November 07, 2024 @12:17AM (#42073627)
Surrounded by scandals, Trudeau passed a law that had an oh-so-unintentional side-effect of hiding news from many people’s primary news source.

It’s hard to not be cynical about it.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by wvenable on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:30AM (#42074021)
I can't say I miss it; Facebook is actually usable now and shouldn't be anyone's primary news source.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by passwordoops on Thursday November 07, 2024 @06:36AM (#42075780)
The dude lurches from one sound bite to another with policy so shallow it barely looks at first order effects.

I'm sure the impact was fully unintentional. Very welcome after the fact. But still unintentional

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by shiroiushi on Thursday November 07, 2024 @12:23AM (#42073654)
Expecting Facebook or Google to pay publishers is like going back in time to 1970 and saying that a newsstand should be paying newspaper publishers for the privilege of selling their papers.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by mikehodgson on Thursday November 07, 2024 @08:09AM (#42076330)
Google agreed to the terms. They're paying $100 million per year to the Canadian Journalism Collective.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by not2b on Thursday November 07, 2024 @12:45PM (#42078963)
No. Canada passed a law requiring Facebook to pay news media for links. Meta said no, we aren't going to do that and banned news instead.

You can argue that this was a predictable response by Meta or that it was a stupid law, but it was not a ban.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by stickfigure on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:19PM (#42073009)
The majority of Canadians share the majority of Americans' view of the Middle East.

The majority of Canadians share the majority of Americans' view of China.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by forgotoldacc on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:24PM (#42073044)
Which gives us a cyclical problem. Do they share those views because American media has so much influence in Canada? Or does American media have influence in Canada because they Americans and Canadians have shared views?

Neighbors in Asia and Europe often have completely unaligned political politics due to a language and media barrier. Even the US and everything south of Texas don't align as much as the US and Canada.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by lowdest on Thursday November 07, 2024 @12:52AM (#42073810)
No. US and Canada share a language and have historically intermingled their populations significantly. We're the same because we have largely similar daily lives as individuals, we have similar problems, and we're populated by people of similar origins. If, for example, conditions caused our paths to diverge, an extreme example would be the split between East and West Germany, then you would expect differing views. Even prior to modern media we were very similar peoples.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by Loic on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:32AM (#42074032)
Une partie du Canada ne parle pas Anglais.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by infecto on Thursday November 07, 2024 @07:24AM (#42076015)
Yes ~9% of the Canadian population is unable to hold a conversation in English. We are talking about the other 90%.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by aprilthird2021 on Thursday November 07, 2024 @12:00AM (#42073553)
Which has nothing to do with censorship on social media. Censorship is okay if it matches what people want to see? Sounds like China justifications...
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by lazystar on Thursday November 07, 2024 @12:52AM (#42073806)
some amount of censorship is unavoidable. when nation state A is in control of the censorship, and designs that censorship to intentionally hurt nation state B, then nation state B has every right to ban the platform that nation state A is using to push it's agenda.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by logicchains on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:14AM (#42073921)
What matters is the people of the nation state, and censorship by their own government depriving them of information is absolutely hurting them. Government only censors people when uncensored information would cause their interests to conflict with those of the people in power.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by corimaith on Thursday November 07, 2024 @04:23AM (#42075084)
No information is being deprived, you can read up all you want in more detail than in TikTok. Rather it's the argument to lazily consume 2 minute bites as a replacement for in-depth study.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by ImPostingOnHN on Thursday November 07, 2024 @08:26AM (#42076450)
> No information is being deprived

It seems censorship is indeed being conducted, as described here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42072050

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by lazystar on Thursday November 07, 2024 @10:20AM (#42077393)
youre ignoring my point to such a degree that it seems intentional. ill have to assume that you either work for a nation state, or you have a third grade education level.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by ImPostingOnHN on Thursday November 07, 2024 @10:31AM (#42077493)
I actually replied to someone else, not you. I'm not aware of any point you have because I haven't read anything you've posted. Given your attitude here, it seems like that's for the best. Perhaps you meant to reply to someone else, too?
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by lazystar on Thursday November 07, 2024 @10:24PM (#42083805)
sorry, its been a long couple of days. my apologies
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by boffinAudio on Thursday November 07, 2024 @06:42AM (#42075806)
Censorship is fascism. If you want bad ideas to die, let them be examined and discussion to proceed. When you censor ideas you don't like, you give them a safe environment to foster.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by aprilthird2021 on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:28PM (#42079376)
No it doesn't. When the citizens of nation state B have the right to freedom of speech and freedom to consume foreign-controlled media, then nation state B does not have the rights you outlined over its people.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by bhouston on Thursday November 07, 2024 @06:08AM (#42075629)
> The majority of Canadians share the majority of Americans' view of the Middle East.

Almost 50% of Canadians believes Israel is committing genocide in Gaza: https://www.readthemaple.com/polls-show-gap-between-canadian...

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by hnbad on Thursday November 07, 2024 @07:28AM (#42076051)
IIRC similar polling in the US led to similar results so the claim is not wrong even if the implication was likely that the majority of Americans support Israel.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by balex on Friday November 08, 2024 @01:26AM (#42084659)
Source? And what are these consensus opinions? (Honest questions)
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by lazystar on Thursday November 07, 2024 @12:54AM (#42073820)
a non-zero amount of censorship is unavoidable in a social media platform. when nation state A is in control of the censorship of social media platform Z, and designs the censorship of that platform to intentionally hurt nation state B by causing division amongst the citizens of nation state B, then nation state B has every right to ban social media platform Z.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by RobotToaster on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:57AM (#42074190)
So if the censorship on Facebook is designed to hurt China, they have every right to ban facebook?
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by sham1 on Thursday November 07, 2024 @03:26AM (#42074741)
I mean, China has banned Facebook. It may or may not be due to that stated reason, but it's nevertheless banned.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by lazystar on Thursday November 07, 2024 @07:12AM (#42075958)
yes, of course
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by troyvit on Thursday November 07, 2024 @11:24AM (#42078059)
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by insane_dreamer on Thursday November 07, 2024 @02:44PM (#42080144)
But that’s not why they banned it. They banned it because FB refused to submit to the CPC’s censorship.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by logicchains on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:12AM (#42073911)
>designs the censorship of that platform to intentionally hurt nation state B by causing division amongst the citizens of nation state B

If the division is a result of the platform exposing people in that nation to information that they previously didn't have access to, due to the government censoring it, then it's absolutely a good thing for the people of the nation. The government of the nation state can get fucked when its interests go against the interests of its people. A divided people is a much better thing than a people united by ignorance and belief in falsehood.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by lazystar on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:20AM (#42073960)
but thats not what nation state A is doing - differing amounts of information is selectively made available to different groups of citizens in nation state B, purely to sow discord when those two groups of citizens interact.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by aprilthird2021 on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:29PM (#42079397)
But it doesn't matter what the intent is. The intent behind many types of publishing and media can be malicious. The ability to publish that media and the ability of Americans to consume that media is protected free speech
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by seanvelasco on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:06AM (#42073876)
can i have a dataset containing articles that were censored? these articles may be misinformation or openly sympathetic to terrorist organizations.

i'm quite happy with Meta handling the moderation on the conflict.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by ImPostingOnHN on Thursday November 07, 2024 @08:36AM (#42076522)
Being openly sympathetic to the ongoing genocide of Palestinians is bad, so if your rule is being followed, we should expect to see an equally low amount of information from both sides of the conflict: the Israeli side and the Palestinian side.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by seanvelasco on Thursday November 07, 2024 @12:47PM (#42078994)
i'm not saying that. i'm saying there should be honest reporting on the conflict, and that includes this truth - although what's happening in Gaza is heartbreaking, and you could even argue disproportionate, there is no genocide of Palestinians in Gaza.

i'm saying we remove the noise surrounding the conflict, and this is curbing the systemic spread of non-truths and hate speech by Iranian-backed disinformation campaigns. TikTok is rife with this.

i believe the rising antisemitism today owes to the proliferation of such content on TikTok where young people consume it on a daily basis.

there is no denying an extremely disproportionate amount of misinformation is coming from the pro-Palestinian movement, backed by Iran and Qatar-based Al Jazeera.

there is no denying an extremely disproportionate amount of hate speech is directed towards the Israelis and the Jewish people, not the Palestinians.

just scroll TikTok or Twitter. for one mild post against a Palestinian, you will find ten extremely antisemitic content directed towards an Israeli who has nothing to do with the conflict.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by ImPostingOnHN on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:21PM (#42079311)
> there is no genocide of Palestinians in Gaza

Sure, just like there is no terrorism in the middle east. We said it, so that makes it true.

Honestly though, I believe the rising islamophobia and anti-Palestinian attitudes owe to the proliferation of such content online. There is simply no denying an extremely disproportionate amount of hate speech and misinformation coming from the pro-Israel movement, backed by Israel and Israeli media, and directed towards Palestinians and those who oppose the genocide of them. I say this as a jewish person.

I'm just suggesting we remove the noise surrounding the conflict, by curbing the systemic spread of non-truths and hate speech by Israeli-backed disinformation campaigns. Just scroll through any social network or news post with comments. For every one mild post you see describing Israel's genocide of Palestinians in Gaza and The West Bank, you will find ten extremely islamophobic comments directed towards Palestinians who had nothing to do with the conflict.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by seanvelasco on Thursday November 07, 2024 @02:02PM (#42079726)
i tried to have a discussion with you, but you decided to troll. i can't believe HN has people like you.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by ImPostingOnHN on Thursday November 07, 2024 @02:55PM (#42080245)
If you are interested in discussion, I encourage you to post good faith replies, instead of calling people who don't agree with you, "trolls", an old and tired routine of internet trolls dating back decades.

What exactly do you take issue with? Your naked and hurtful assertions not being taken on blind faith? The fact that I, a person of jewish faith, see significantly less hate directed at me for it, than I do directed towards Palestinians and those who oppose the genocide of them?

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by davu8 on Saturday November 09, 2024 @02:37AM (#42093076)
yet another terrorists apologizer.

"There is simply no denying an extremely disproportionate amount of hate speech and misinformation coming from the pro-Israel movement"

what a ridiculous thing to say. let's compare pro-palestine vs pro-israel gatherings. the only thing pro-pals guys do is spreading their hate towards Jews (not only Zionists)

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by anone9462 on Saturday November 09, 2024 @03:38AM (#42093297)
Your opponent justified himself that TikTok ban was necessary- he looked some antisemitic videos, and this is it, he promotes terrorism and antisemitism, totally falling under propaganda.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by ImPostingOnHN on Sunday November 10, 2024 @01:34PM (#42101706)
"Your opponent"?
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by safety1st on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:39AM (#42074078)
While one is certainly entitled to disagree with Meta's moderation policies, I feel like this muddies the issue.

Specifically what happened in Canada is:

* A national security review found Tiktok's operations in Canada to be a risk to national security

* Tiktok's operations in Canada are being closed down but Canadians are still able to use and post on Tiktok

* This type of review is pretty opaque by nature so more details are probably unavailable at this stage

If Canadians are still able to use and post on Tiktok I'm not sure there is a speech/censorship issue here. Maybe Tiktok Canada was harboring spies or something, or maybe this is a roundabout way to push Tiktok out of the country later, but I don't think we have any solid public info.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by bryan_w on Thursday November 07, 2024 @02:35AM (#42074443)
> If Canadians are still able to use and post on Tiktok I'm not sure there is a speech/censorship issue here. Maybe Tiktok Canada was harboring spies or something,

If tiktok is allowed to do business in the country, then they can buy allegiance via the creator fund which makes it harder to get citizens to realize (and leave it) once they start deploying active measures.

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by NooneAtAll3 on Thursday November 07, 2024 @06:53AM (#42075866)
> I feel like this muddies the issue.

"instead of focusing on China, we should limit the issue as a whole"

"It is not about the data. It’s about a foreign government controlling the algorithm that decides what millions of people see"

"it's not only China - we do it to ourselves to. Instead of focusing on China, we should limit the issue as a whole"

"this muddies the issue"

you know what? instead of focusing on China, we should limit the issue as a whole

Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by exe34 on Thursday November 07, 2024 @03:19AM (#42074692)
here in the UK, Facebook can't seem to get enough of assisting hamas in their propaganda war.
Re:Trudeau government bans TikTok from operating in Canada by insane_dreamer on Thursday November 07, 2024 @02:43PM (#42080125)
For sure US companies do it too. But from a _national security perspective_ the US/Canada don’t care about local companies as much as foreign companies _controlled by a foreign (and in this case hostile) government_.