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Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by jvanderbot on Thursday October 17, 2024 @07:45AM (#41868704)
Why are people getting weird things like corporate food stamps when they are being paid 400,000 anyway?
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by throwaway19972 on Thursday October 17, 2024 @08:13AM (#41868904)
Who cares? Have you seen the profit margins at these stingy-ass companies?
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday October 17, 2024 @10:41AM (#41870123)
>Who cares? Have you seen the profit margins at these stingy-ass companies?

Should stealing be excused just because you're doing it to some wealthy entity?

The problem with the "it's OK to steal from them because they're in a position of privilege and I'm not" justification logic, is that then the poor/homeless guy around the block should also be ok to rob you or break into your car because "who cares, have you seen the fat wages those techies are raking in?"

Have Meta done a lot of nasty stuff that they should be punished for? Definitely. But that's another topic they need to be held accountable for by the law, and should never be a justification to green light stealing since two wrongs don't make a right and you don't want to live in a society where stealing is normalized as long as you think you're doing it to someone more priviledged than you.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by salawat on Thursday October 17, 2024 @11:50AM (#41870795)
How convenient that that line of thinking's ultimate outcome is to solidify the security of the haves goods over the have nots access to what they need. Much like taking second servings before the children have had their fill.

Funny bit is no one ever seems to want to contemplate how to defang the power laws that yield winner takes all, fostering massive inequality at the expense of the majority of the population.

That'd make being rich harder though. No one wants that.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by archagon on Thursday October 17, 2024 @01:46PM (#41871854)
How is this stealing?
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by s1artibartfast on Thursday October 17, 2024 @03:51PM (#41873121)
How is it not?

It is basically lying on an expense report.

They were given permission to use funds to dinner if they were working late. Instead they treated the program as a personal credit card.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by cchance on Thursday October 17, 2024 @03:17PM (#41872842)
Its not stealing they gave them the money, in the form of the voucher, they just didnt like what they were using the voucher for or the way they were using it (on the way out of the office).
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by throwaway19972 on Thursday October 17, 2024 @06:13PM (#41874334)
> Should stealing be excused just because you're doing it to some wealthy entity?

Absolutely!

> The problem with the "it's OK to steal from them because they're in a position of privilege and I'm not" justification logic, is that then the poor/homeless guy around the block should also be ok to rob you or break into your car because "who cares, have you seen the fat wages those techies are raking in?"

False equivalence. But also, I'm absolutely ok with this.

> Have Meta done a lot of nasty stuff that they should be punished for? Definitely. But that's another topic they need to be held accountable for by the law, and should never be a justification to green light stealing since two wrongs don't make a right and you don't want to live in a society where stealing is normalized as long as you think you're doing it to someone more priviledged than you.

I'm completely fine with this world.

Hilariously, you could have made this argument a lot better by indicating perception of privilege is subjective. But you didn't—and instead only produced examples that should be ok to anyone with an ounce of morality.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by s1artibartfast on Thursday October 17, 2024 @07:11PM (#41874751)
Please share your address. I would like some of your property.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by laborcontract on Thursday October 17, 2024 @10:44AM (#41870151)
Are we sure the people with $400k salaries abusing a company food voucher program to buy toothpaste aren’t the stingy ones?
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by salawat on Thursday October 17, 2024 @11:45AM (#41870741)
Are you asking the right question when instead of just being paid the employer is engaging in the sordid practice of "company scrip" with more layers?

Employers should not be exercising control over how compensation is used. Period.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by s1artibartfast on Thursday October 17, 2024 @07:09PM (#41874736)
They weren't.it wasn't compensation.

The employees were stealing from the company coffee jar

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by em-bee on Friday October 18, 2024 @05:11AM (#41877615)
for comparison, in germany it is compensation and taxed as income. as far as i know almost everything an employee in germany receives is considered compensation to avoid tax loopholes. even actual free meals served in the office (not just vouchers) are assigned a monetary value and taxed. only snacks, drinks or exceptional meals (like pizza for the all-hands meeting) are exempt.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by JohnFen on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:40AM (#41880432)
It certainly counts as part of the compensation package.

That said, it's compensation employees accepted with conditions in its use, and to intentionally violate those conditions is not ethically supportable.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by s1artibartfast on Friday October 18, 2024 @01:14PM (#41881432)
I don't think they do, at least for tax purposes. Some have suggested this is one reason companies are sensitive around the topic.

Work meals are not W-2 taxable compensation if they meet several conditions, such as being consumed outside normal working hours and on premises.

A gift card to buy food or whatever you want is w-2 taxable income. A meal voucher so people can eat while working late is not.

https://www.henssler.com/employer-provided-meals-are-they-ta...

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by potato3732842 on Thursday October 17, 2024 @07:51AM (#41868754)
Because that's better for morale and has a lower administrative overhead than the administrative overhead of having a cutoff or whatever.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by jcgrillo on Thursday October 17, 2024 @08:01AM (#41868820)
It would be even less administrative overhead to just give everyone the $18.2k/yr in their regular paycheck.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by bathtub365 on Thursday October 17, 2024 @09:57AM (#41869736)
The idea is to keep them in the office by giving them free food they’re only supposed to eat while they’re there, without paying overtime.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by salawat on Thursday October 17, 2024 @11:52AM (#41870812)
IT people are overtime exempt. Overtime doesn't factor into the calculus.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by bathtub365 on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:11PM (#41885371)
I used to make overtime pay as a software developer. It’s just been widely accepted by a lot of software developers that they don’t deserve overtime.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by jffry on Thursday October 17, 2024 @07:50AM (#41868738)
> Meta [...] usually feeds staff for free from canteens at its larger offices, including its sprawling Silicon Valley headquarters. But those at smaller sites are given daily credits to order food through delivery services such as UberEats and Grubhub. Daily allowances include $20 for breakfast, $25 for lunch and $25 for dinner.

So probably a perk they decided was worth it or necessary for morale at some point

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by Eumenes on Thursday October 17, 2024 @08:19AM (#41868960)
> Daily allowances include $20 for breakfast, $25 for lunch and $25 for dinner.

Dayum, I could make a weeks worth of meals with the daily allowance of each of these.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by JohnFen on Thursday October 17, 2024 @10:11AM (#41869861)
My thoughts exactly. $70/day to eat is mystifyingly generous. I don't spend $70/week.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by potato3732842 on Thursday October 17, 2024 @08:21AM (#41868975)
I suspect this is a result of acquisitions.

They buy some startup, bring them all under Meta's HR umbrella with all the rules and perks that comes with. Since these recently acquired guys are running out of random offices in random places they just give them a stipend rather than force them to all relocate to a campus with dining.

The $400k employee was probably a higher up (or key SME Meta felt they needed to put in golden handcuffs) at one of these acquired companies and was probably already on his or her way out.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by questionableans on Thursday October 17, 2024 @04:20PM (#41873356)
At Meta, $400k would be high E4 or low E5. That’s someone earlier in their career who probably feels fairly anonymous and is used to taking all the deals they can get to live cheaply, even if they don’t need to anymore.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by tivert on Thursday October 17, 2024 @10:45AM (#41870165)
> So probably a perk they decided was worth it or necessary for morale at some point

I always thought that stuff (along with the snacks) was a ploy to keep employees working longer hours. Needing to get food/coffee/whatever is a transition that can allow people to decide to disengage from work. A strategically placed coffee station can prevent a longer trip to the cafeteria or a coffee shop, and free food in the cafeteria can prevent a trip offsite to a restaurant or the worker's home for a meal. Plus it can seem like a plus to the employee, because people often pay a lot more attention to money than time.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by HDThoreaun on Thursday October 17, 2024 @01:56PM (#41871948)
Of course it is. That doesnt mean it isnt also a perk. I am happy that my office has coffee even though it also benefits my employer with the increased productivity. Same with lunch, its a win win for the company and the employee.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by tivert on Thursday October 17, 2024 @02:15PM (#41872158)
> Same with lunch, its a win win for the company and the employee.

I don't think it's that simple. Sure, on some level it's a win for you (free food) and a win for them (more time spent working), but on another level you might be winning more if the perk wasn't influencing your decision-making to take the employer-preferred path.

I think it's a little more clear when thinking about employer provided dinner, like Facebook apparently provides.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by dns_snek on Thursday October 17, 2024 @03:36PM (#41873004)
I don't think it's a win for the employee if they're getting $100 worth of extra labor out of you in exchange for $25 worth of food. And not just financially, I always thought that these "perks" make it harder to disconnect and relax from work which is likely to take a toll on mental health - I know it would for me.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by s1artibartfast on Thursday October 17, 2024 @05:25PM (#41873973)
It isnt an exchange of extra labor for food. They are demanding the work either way for the salary.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by jerlam on Thursday October 17, 2024 @11:45AM (#41870753)
Now we know who's paying all those food delivery companies $20 to deliver them a single coffee.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by joezydeco on Thursday October 17, 2024 @02:26PM (#41872278)
We use a Doordash voucher as an incentive to go hybrid and come into the office once or twice a week. Seems silly to spend all that time commuting and then you go leave for another 60-90 minutes to get lunch.

At some point it will disappear and go to a hard RTO, but for now it kind of works.

I've seen others ask how is buying toothpaste and wine is possible on a voucher, Doordash definitely does this "add groceries in the next 15 minutes!" thing once you've ordered lunch.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by SkyPuncher on Thursday October 17, 2024 @08:19AM (#41868956)
I, for one know, some people like this. They grew up in struggling families where food and resources were scarce at times.

My impression is that's created a deeply rooted sense of need. That sense of need stays, even when you clearly have great salaries.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by beepbooptheory on Thursday October 17, 2024 @08:33AM (#41869048)
I have only worked at pretty bad startups I guess, but for me I could get paid well but if there is some strong sense of job insecurity (as there always seems to be in this world), I will never leave a certain level of survival/hoarding mode. I have savings and everything but to this day I will still only buy a car I can potentially live out of. Every day I am ready to go back to the kitchen, but until then every morsel must be collected and appreciated.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by JohnFen on Thursday October 17, 2024 @11:41AM (#41870707)
This is (depending on how extreme you are, I suppose) wise. Once you're making more than a subsistence income, one of the keys to long-term financial stability and security is to live well below your means[1].

Doing that also gives you freedom in the sense that you are no longer "trapped" in whatever job you have, because you can develop a long enough runway that you can leave a job before you've found a replacement.

[1] In my youth, I dated the daughter of one of the richest people in my city. I asked him what the key to getting rich is, and his response was "spend less than you earn". At the time, I thought it was a way to to avoid answering my question, but in the decades since I've realized that was actually the correct answer and everything else is just expanding on that.

Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by mrtksn on Thursday October 17, 2024 @08:26AM (#41869003)
People love free stuff just as much as they love spending money I guess. There are deals even in upscale stores for brands used by people who don't know how much money and how many properties they own.
Re:Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy hou... by rsynnott on Thursday October 17, 2024 @01:43PM (#41871828)
Not sure how it works in the US, but at least here, if an employer wants to provide meals to some employees and not have it seemed to be a benefit in kind (and thus liable for income tax), they have to provide them to _all_ employees (or at least all employees working at a given site).

I'd wonder if that was part of the issue here, actually; are these sorts of meal vouchers treated specially for tax in the US?