News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by dimal on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @05:56PM (#41782180)
We’re dealing with this big time in Asheville now. When cell service came back at all, everyone had shitty intermittent 3G, and none of the websites we needed for basic survival information would load. A bunch of good people created some text only news sites, and today I noticed that the Buncombe county website finally has a low bandwidth site, but even then when I inspected it, it had 130k of bootstrap css and 50k of jQuery blocking rendering. It’s great that people are doing this work, but citizens needed this a week and a half ago. By now, I’ve figured out where to get water, food, non potable water, etc. Seeing tech fail so badly through all this has been eye opening for me, in a depressing way.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by yaky on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:40PM (#41782965)
Not as catastrophic, but during power outages in my neighborhood, I am usually left with a poor cell signal (no backups on cable internet boxes). Electric utility's outage map is hidden behind a login (!) and is rendered with fancy clustering and other UI features that are already slow even with a decent connection. So it takes quite a while to check the status or even report an outage.

I could call the utlity company, but for some reason, they chose voice navigation (instead of keypad tones) for their menu, and it is not good at recognizing distorted voice (over bad 4G or 2G connection).

Re:The Static Site Paradox by ukuina on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @11:20PM (#41784188)
> they chose voice navigation (instead of keypad tones) for their menu

Most voice menus have hidden, 1-indexed touchtone mappings.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by otteromkram on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @11:40PM (#41784290)
The only time I've had an issue with using the keypad is during the prompt that goes something like, "In a few words, tell me what you're calling about."

Hitting zero repeatedly at that point is usually the only way through.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by dimal on Thursday October 10, 2024 @04:40PM (#41803340)
I was at the T-Mobile internet trucks in Asheville and the woman next to me was obviously stuck in some automated voice menu hell — you know when some one is sitting on the phone quietly listening to whatever the question “What can I help you with?” and then answering with one clear word. I saw her sitting there like that waiting, then respond clearly, “Disaster!” I’m going to guess the system didn’t have a way of handling that answer.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by nnf on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @11:32PM (#41784254)
The electric utility in my area is this bad and worse. I once reported a power outage when the power wasn’t actually out (explanation follows) and they had no way for me to cancel the report when I realized everything was fine. I tried calling but couldn’t get past an automated “we received your report and are working on it” message.

(Why would I report an outage when the power wasn’t out? Our lights blipped and my whole-home battery backup system kicked into action and showed a “grid outage” message. I checked it a few minutes later and it still showed the same status, so wanting to be a helpful neighbor, I reported it. I found out later that the battery backup system stays off-grid for five minutes following an outage of any length, even just a blip, I think as a debounce protection. When the utility trucks showed up, I told them what had happened and that their system wouldn’t let me cancel the report, but they were just glad to have a break from running around dealing with outages nearby, so they stayed and talked for a few minutes, curious about the battery system. Nice guys.)

Re:The Static Site Paradox by withinboredom on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @05:22AM (#41785963)
Heh, similar issue once, only no battery backup and the main breaker would trip instantly. So, we had power, but it wasn't coming back up. After an expensive discovery that the issue wasn't on our side, the power company had to get into the junction box and discover that the wire had melted to the metal. We were 'this close' to losing everything due to a fire. Especially because once the metal cooled down enough, the power could come back on for a few hours.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by montefischer on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:16PM (#41782782)
Do you have links to the text only news sites?
Re:The Static Site Paradox by dimal on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:22PM (#41782833)
Yeah, I should have posted that. This is the one I use the most:

https://text.bpr.org/

I forgot to save the links to the others.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by strunz on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:57PM (#41783068)
Wow it's amazing how noticeably faster than is that every other website. We really messed up the internet.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by chrisweekly on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @12:31AM (#41784515)
Speed is the most important UX feature.

I've emphasized this, repeatedly, to ~every product owner I've worked with in my 26-year career.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by apitman on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @12:13PM (#41789574)
I believe it's morally wrong to make software that makes people wait needlessly. If your software makes me wait, it better have something to do with the speed of light.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by NegativeLatency on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @09:06PM (#41783460)
http://frogfind.com/ Might be useful
Re:The Static Site Paradox by foxylad on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @09:08PM (#41783475)
CNN is on https://lite.cnn.com/. The home page is a single 30KB HTML file (my browser also insists on downloading their 6KB favicon).

A thing of beauty, compared to their normal home page with 90+ files of 12MB.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by pnt12 on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @12:24AM (#41784489)
Wow - that is the fastest loading site I've seen!
Re:The Static Site Paradox by andrepd on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @02:02AM (#41784959)
It's almost as if we all have supercomputers in our pockets which could easily handle text and images of only web devs didn't shove 10MB of code in an interpreted language every time time we open a page!
Re:The Static Site Paradox by hoseja on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @03:40AM (#41785449)
Half of the people on this site are those very same webdevs.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by deanishe on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @12:54PM (#41790039)
What's up with that?

Why would you rather build SUVs for soccer moms than race cars?

Re:The Static Site Paradox by freedomben on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @01:57PM (#41790787)
Which means pointing it out has a higher potential for bearing fruit. If we convince just one web dev to start thinking/caring about it, that's a win.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by froh on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @03:00AM (#41785250)
yup. I marveled at a cray y-mp 4 back in the days. now I use one as my daily driver, compute power wise. mind. blown. come to think about it...
Re:The Static Site Paradox by andrepd on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @04:40PM (#41792387)
No, you don't.

You use something some 200 to 2000 times more powerful.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by cheschire on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @09:42PM (#41783648)
Re:The Static Site Paradox by Drawde on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @07:33AM (#41786719)
http://68k.news/

is also a nice one

Re:The Static Site Paradox by dendrite9 on Friday October 11, 2024 @01:44AM (#41806552)
Someone on here I think runs Plain Text Sports. I rarely follow games, but I like the idea of such a simple site.

https://plaintextsports.com/

Re:The Static Site Paradox by erikts on Saturday October 12, 2024 @10:01PM (#41824565)
https://text.npr.org/ text onli version of NPR (National Public Radio)
Re:The Static Site Paradox by dingnuts on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @06:36PM (#41782492)
that situation has had me thinking about getting an amateur radio license again. In a disaster like what happened to Western NC, which encompasses a much greater area than just Asheville, I wouldn't want to rely on anything based on the Internet. You want something with a long wavelength and low power. But it's so inaccessible, and I'm not sure if it's for good reason or not.

Connectivity was knocked out from Black Mountain all the way to the Tennessee and Georgia borders. I'd be surprised if many people even have shitty 3G back yet. What I know is remaining in touch with people who live there has been hard.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by __mattya on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:57PM (#41783071)
You can listen without a license. I was able to hear everything on a $15 handheld and it was immensely helpful.

In an emergency you are allowed to transmit without a license. There were plenty of unlicensed calls going to the Mt. Mitchell repeater.

All that being said, I am definitely getting my license once this is over.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by carlosjobim on Thursday October 10, 2024 @11:59AM (#41800220)
> You can listen without a license

You can also talk without a license, who's going to stop you? Especially in an emergency situation.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by j_bum on Friday October 11, 2024 @12:19AM (#41806073)
I don’t know anything about this topic, so forgive me if I’m wrong.

Would there be any risks associated with increased “free for all” amounts of radio traffic going around during a natural disaster like this? Couldn’t specific channels become cluttered to the point where signal is too disrupted to read, or is that not quite how it works?

Re:The Static Site Paradox by carlosjobim on Friday October 11, 2024 @03:17PM (#41812597)
I think there are thousands of frequencies. Traffic can split up into those.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by dimal on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:12PM (#41782753)
What I want is for every smartphone to have an FM radio built in. There are FM radio IC chips available, and apparently some Android phones have them. It seems like a reasonable thing to require smartphones to have them for emergencies. I had to run my car in the beginning, burning precious gas just to hear on the radio what the hell was actually happening.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by rzzzt on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:21PM (#41782817)
It might be selection bias, but my impression was that it is very hard to find a phone without this feature (going back to the Windows Phone and semi-smart feature phone era as well). The usual downside is that they do not spring to life unless a wired headphone is connected, because the cable is used as the antenna.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by zem on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @08:15PM (#41783205)
> unless a wired headphone is connected

aren't wired headphones increasingly unsupported in newer phones?

Re:The Static Site Paradox by dorfsmay on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @08:59PM (#41783431)
Yes, that is becoming a huge issue for me.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by dimal on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @07:33PM (#41782918)
Ah, yeah. I was wondering how it could work without an antenna. I guess an FM antenna needs to be larger than the 5G antenna built into phones too.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by freedomben on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @01:59PM (#41790818)
Indeed, most phones have the hardware already, but the radio isn't surfaced in the software.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by pwenzel on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @09:05PM (#41783451)
Plain old AM/FM radios are cheap and super efficient. Everyone should have one! I have a portable radio that I use regularly and its AA batteries often last a few years!
Re:The Static Site Paradox by roywiggins on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @01:13AM (#41784701)
I owned a series of Moto Gs that could, but with the removal of headphone jacks I am not sure how much reception you could expect. I did manage to pick up FM stations without anything plugged in but only pretty close to a transmitter.

Some phones even used to have TV tuners in them, though I don't think any of them were sold in the US.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by joseda-hg on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @02:08PM (#41790917)
Back in Venezuela there we're at least 2 models of the Telepatria, A phone with TV Capabilities, if I recall correctly, both models being basically modified ZTE designs

The original model did come with an external anthena, and the latest model is from 2015, no anthena needed

Re:The Static Site Paradox by jachee on Tuesday October 08, 2024 @06:47PM (#41782567)
CB is roughly 11m wavelength and doesn’t require a ton of power, and doesn’t require any licensing.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by andrepd on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @01:59AM (#41784938)
Plus, what you call "shitty 3G" is (a) not really that bad objectively speaking (better than dialup 20 so years ago), and (b) actually the norm for hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people. I always think it's very depressing and even hypocritical how little the average SV dev cares about anyone with less than an iphone 15 with 4G in their pocket.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by eru on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @02:54AM (#41785217)
Is Asheville in SV?

In any case, in places like eg India 4G is more common than 3G. 3G is being phased out. 5G is rolling out.

(I realise that India isn't the poorest of the poor anymore. But not sure that's necessary for your argument?)

Re:The Static Site Paradox by zaphar on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @07:41AM (#41786780)
Asheville is in Western North Carolina
Re:The Static Site Paradox by eru on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @07:49AM (#41786834)
Thanks. Yes, that's what Google told me, too. I was just confused by andrepd's accusation.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by 4ggr0 on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @02:40AM (#41785140)
well, people without 4G or a later phone model probably don't have the money for your $5 per month service anyways, so why care about them at all /s
Re:The Static Site Paradox by withinboredom on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @05:24AM (#41785965)
I know you meant this sarcastically. BUT, when traveling, my phone has a free 3g, unlimited data plan. So, you run into these problems even in modern society.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by 4ggr0 on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @05:42AM (#41786053)
oh, good point. actually had this experience this week. for some reason 4G/5G was unavailable and all i had was H+. NOTHING worked. couldn't buy a train ticket from my phone, websites didn't load etc.

all i was able to do was to send and receive signal/telegram/etc. messages...

Re:The Static Site Paradox by nicbou on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @05:37AM (#41786029)
I am used to this, having used all sorts of bad internet connections over the years. Too much of the internet is designed on fast computers with fast internet and excellent monitors. Some of my best work was done on a 12” MacBook with a spotty hotel WiFi. I pay very close attention to page speed.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by shaicoleman on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @07:05AM (#41786501)
As a workaround, you can try using Opera Mini and configure the Data Savings option.
Re:The Static Site Paradox by zaphar on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @07:37AM (#41786751)
I live in Sylva which is about 45 minutes from Asheville and yeah, Cell service made getting any useful information on your phone pretty bad. If I hadn't had Starlink I would have been in the dark for at least a week on a whole lot of stuff.

If I could sum up much of the miserableness of this disaster event it would be communication breakdowns in all kinds of ways.

Re:The Static Site Paradox by __mattya on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @08:37AM (#41787235)
Buncombe honestly did a much better job than the surrounding counties. Up here in Madison County most of the updates were only posted on Facebook. A lot of the updates from here and surrounding counties were posted on Facebook as photos of text or videos with no caption.

I get that these counties don’t have the budget or the technical staff for this but it’s really unfortunate.