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Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by deepGem on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @04:48PM (#41651716)
Why is it so hard to just accept this and be transparent about motives ? It's fair to say 'we were not aligned with Sam, we tried an ouster, didn't pan out so the best thing for us to do is to leave and let Sam pursue his path", which the entirely company has vouched for.

Instead, you get to see grey area after grey area.

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by jjulius on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @05:13PM (#41651941)
Because, for some weird reason, our culture has collectively decided that, even if most of us are capable of reading between the lines to understand what's really being said or is happening, it's often wrong and bad to be honest and transparent, and we should put the most positive spin possible on it. It's everywhere, especially in professional and political environments.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by discordance on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @07:58PM (#41653108)
For a counter example of what open and transparent communincation from a C-level tech person could look like, have a read of what the SpaCy founder blogged about a few months ago:

https://honnibal.dev/blog/back-to-our-roots

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by vincnetas on Thursday September 26, 2024 @03:16AM (#41655409)
Stakes are orders of magnitude lower in spaCy case compared to OpenAI (for announcer and for people around them). It's easier to just be yourself when you're back on square one.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by FactKnower69 on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @05:17PM (#41651975)
McKinsey MBA brain rot seeping into all levels of culture
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by cedws on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @06:42PM (#41652643)
That's giving too much credit to McKinsey. I'd argue it's systemic brainrot. Never admit mistakes, never express yourself, never be honest. Just make up as much bullshit as possible on the fly, say whatever you have to pacify people. Even just say bullshit 24/7.

Not to dunk on Mira Murati, because this note is pretty cookie cutter, but it exemplifies this perfectly. It says nothing about her motivations for resigning. It bends over backwards to kiss the asses of the people she's leaving behind. It could ultimately be condensed into two words: "I've resigned."

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by Earw0rm on Thursday September 26, 2024 @01:42AM (#41654894)
It's a management culture which is almost colonial in nature, and seeks to differentiate itself from a "labor class" which is already highly educated.

Never spook the horses. Never show the team, or the public, what's going on behind the curtain.. or even that there is anything going on. At all time present the appearance of a swan gliding serenely across a lake.

Because if you show humanity, those other humans might cotton on to the fact that you're not much different to them, and have done little to earn or justify your position of authority.

And that wouldn't do at all.

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by NoGravitas on Thursday September 26, 2024 @10:59AM (#41659164)
> Just make up as much bullshit as possible on the fly, say whatever you have to pacify people.

Probably why AI sludge is so well suited to this particular cultural moment.

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by lotsofpulp on Thursday September 26, 2024 @12:40AM (#41654609)
It is human nature to use plausible deniability to play politics and fool one’s self or others. You will get better results in negotiations if you allow the opposing party to maintain face (i.e. ego).

See flirting as a more basic example.

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by kyawzazaw on Thursday September 26, 2024 @02:03AM (#41655006)
not for two sigma
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by bergen on Thursday September 26, 2024 @04:15AM (#41655822)
This is not a culture thing imo, being honest and transparent makes you vulnerable to exploits, which is often a bad thing for the ones being honest and transparent in a high competition area.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by jjulius on Thursday September 26, 2024 @02:08PM (#41661373)
Being dishonest and cagey only serves to build public distrust in your organization, as has happened with OpenAI over the past couple of months. Just look at all of the comments throughout this thread for proof of that.

Edit: Shoot, look at the general level of distrust that the populous puts in politicians.

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by fsndz on Thursday September 26, 2024 @05:10AM (#41656205)
hypocrisy has to be the core of every corporate or political environment I have observed recently. I can count the occasions or situations where telling the simple truth is helpful. even the people who tell you to tell the truth are often the ones incapable of handling it.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by dragonelite on Thursday September 26, 2024 @05:40AM (#41656385)
From experience unless the person mention their next "adventure"(within like a couple of months) or gig it usually means a manager or c-suite person got axed and was given the option to gracefully exit.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by fsndz on Thursday September 26, 2024 @07:23AM (#41657073)
true
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by deepGem on Thursday September 26, 2024 @12:47PM (#41660579)
By the barrage of exits following Mira's resignation, it does look like Sam fired her, the team got the wind of this and are now quitting in droves. This is the thing about lying and being polite. You can't hide the truth for long.

Mira's latest one liner tweet 'OpenAI is nothing without it's people" speaks volumes.

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by mewpmewp2 on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @06:22PM (#41652486)
Because if you are a high level executive and you are transparent on those things, and if it backfires, it will backfire hard for your future opportunities, since all the companies will view you as a potential liability. So it is always safer and wiser option to not say anything in case of any risk of it backfiring. So you do the polite PR messaging every single time. There's nothing to be gained on the individual level of being transparent, only to be risked.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by deepGem on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @07:10PM (#41652828)
I doubt someone with Mira or Ilya’s calibre have to worry about future opportunities. They can very well craft their own opportunities.

Saying I was wrong should not be this complicated, or saying we failed.

I do however agree that there is nothing to be gained and everything to be risked. So why do it.

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by dh2022 on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @08:06PM (#41653158)
Their (Ilya and Mira) perspective on anything is so far remote from your (and my) perspectives that trying to understand their personal feelings behind their resignation is an enterprise doomed to failure.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by startupsfail on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @04:56PM (#41651782)
“the entire company has vouched for” is inconsistent with what we see now. Low/mid ranking employees were obviously tweeting in alignment with their management and by request.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by widowlark on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @04:52PM (#41651750)
id imagine that level of honesty could still lead to billions lost in shareholder value - thus the grey area. Market obfuscation is a real thing.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by stagger87 on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @04:55PM (#41651774)
It's in nobodies best interest to do this especially when there is so much money at play.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by rvnx on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @05:11PM (#41651921)
A bit ironic for a non-profit
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by mewpmewp2 on Wednesday September 25, 2024 @06:23PM (#41652498)
As I understand they are going to be stop being non-profit soonish now?
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by dragonwriter on Thursday September 26, 2024 @05:09AM (#41656204)
Everyone involved works at and has investments in a for-profit firm.

The fact that it has a structure that subordinates it to the board of a non-profit would be only tangential to the interests involved even if that was meaningful and not just rhe lingering vestige of the (arguably, deceptive) founding that the combined organization was working on getting rid of.

Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by ssnistfajen on Thursday September 26, 2024 @01:50AM (#41654935)
People, including East Asians, frequently claim "face" is an East Asian cultural concept despite the fact that it is omnipresent in all cultures. It doesn't matter if outsiders have figured out what's actually going on. The only thing that matters is saving face.
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by blitzar on Thursday September 26, 2024 @02:15AM (#41655079)
We lie about our successes why would we not lie about our failures?
Re:Mira Exits OpenAI by sumedh on Thursday September 26, 2024 @06:32AM (#41656727)
> Why is it so hard to just accept this and be transparent about motives

You are asking the question, why are politicians not honest?