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Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by yabones on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @08:44AM (#41309726)
This won't work. None of the "safety technology" we've added in the last decade has worked. Not that the individual subsystems don't work effectively on their own, but that the entire vehicle is becoming a less safe place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

There's two main contributing factors, weight and distraction.

Weight is easy to tell by looking around. More people than ever are driving around in huge SUVs and pickup trucks.

But the bigger issue is distracted driving. The majority of other drivers I see are on their phones while moving. Almost everybody is checking their phones at intersections. And those that aren't have another distraction, the big tablets built into their cars, the use of which is required to change trivial settings.

Adding more tech won't solve this. Only removing and limiting its use will roll back this trend.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by davedx on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @09:09AM (#41309929)
Distractions are often the safety systems themselves! Over the last 4 years, my Model 3 has progressively started beeping and chiming more and more at me, taking over my steering because it thinks I'm drifting out of my lane when I'm trying to actually change lanes, chimes because it thinks I'm going to run over a pedestrian or crash when there's actually a bend in the road - every year there is more of this and none of it works reliably. Other cars are similar but different.

I dread what cars are slowly turning into. Yet most people are still myopically focused on the drawbacks of touchscreens instead of hardware knobs.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by wlesieutre on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @09:18AM (#41310004)
> taking over my steering because it thinks I'm drifting out of my lane when I'm trying to actually change lanes

Isn’t this avoided by using your turn signal?

That’s how Mazda’s works

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by hunter2_ on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @09:38AM (#41310169)
That's how VW works as well, when the next lane is clear. But if you're on a collision course according to the blind spot monitoring system, a turn signal won't suppress anything and temporarily makes for what feels like extra-aggressive lane keep. This is great if you failed to notice the other vehicle, but it does maintain a bit more buffer than some practiced weavers would find necessary (like during a lane change that would be cutting someone off if not for sufficient acceleration to produce a reasonable gap albeit on the late side).
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by mmastrac on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:51AM (#41310877)
Are you admitting to weaving in and out of other traffic? That is insanely dangerous and I've been nearly hit by drivers like this repeatedly over the years.

Maybe there's a good reason the safety system of the car is fighting you on this

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by hunter2_ on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @04:01PM (#41313669)
No. I've experienced this (insufficient gap for BSM to be satisfied) during accident avoidance maneuvers where a lane change of this nature was the better option than getting smashed, and from that I'm extrapolating that weavers would mistakenly think LKA is repeatedly interfering with lane changes when it's actually BSM doing so.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by jabroni_salad on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @02:37PM (#41312920)
I have a very different experience with my 22 Golf GTI. When I'm on the highway I use ACC with max following distance and lanekeep enabled. I know what all of the safety systems feel like and I never encounter them if I have the blinker on before I enter the ACC's zone and the 'car in front of you' indicator turns opaque.

I also like that if I am following someone slow with ACC it starts to accelerate the very second that I turn on the blinker so I can start passing. My old car would make you wait until it could read that the lane was clear.

The only system that I objectively dont like is the 'travel assist' (lane centering) because I do not like the lane position that it prefers.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by beAbU on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @09:47AM (#41310254)
Yeah I think GP is inadvertently admitting that they don't use indicators.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by screcth on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:53AM (#41310904)
It's really important that drivers can control their car at all times. Software should not override control because it "thinks" that you are making a mistake.

This seems like a recipe for disaster when you are in a situation in which you need to respond quickly to an unexpected circumstance.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by wlesieutre on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @01:10PM (#41312219)
I can't speak to every car, but my experience is the lanekeeping assist applies very little force to the wheel and if you're making any sort of emergency maneuver you'll go straight through it and feel a slight bump warning you that the car thinks you're crossing the line. If you push against it at all it doesn't stop you. Maybe it even stops trying to apply force entirely if you resist its initial nudge.

I thought it might be annoying when I first got a car with LKA, but I've yet to have any complaints about it.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by bugglebeetle on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:13AM (#41310504)
Classic Tesla owner.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @04:09PM (#41313757)
Some people only use their turn signal when other people are around.

I think that's an odd behavior. As far as I'm concerned, using the signal is just as much of part of a lane change as is turning the wheel. Be in the habit of using it every time and you'll never forget it.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by wlesieutre on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @05:22PM (#41314308)
The other thing about only using your turn signal when other people are around, is that what you're actually doing is using your turn signal when you're aware of other people being around.

Especially as a pedestrian I think a lot of drivers are basically blind to your existence and then don't bother to signal turns because if they don't notice you then why would they need to warn anyone of what they're about to do with their 6000 pound metal box? And besides, are pedestrians really people anyway?

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by davedx on Friday August 30, 2024 @11:01AM (#41401377)
No, I always indicate. I am saying Tesla’s various safety systems frequently have false positives. Ask people who tried to get into the FSD beta program how reliable these systems are.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by bdamm on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:31AM (#41310692)
In my Model 3, when I use my turn signal this does not happen. Also, it can be disabled. And I could hardly say that the gentle tug is "taking over the steering", it's more like a nudge.

In my experience it does sometimes make errors, but it also sometimes makes very good assistance, so much so that I've come to depend on it. Have you ever noticed that the dings and chimes are much more frequent when you're looking away from the road?

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by uoaei on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:39AM (#41310761)
Please use your turn signals.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @04:11PM (#41313772)
> taking over my steering because it thinks I'm drifting out of my lane when I'm trying to actually change lanes

Rather than being like other commenters telling you to use your turn signals, I'm going to take another approach. I'm going to ask.

Why aren't you using your turn signals?

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @11:00AM (#41310991)
You're making conclusions that are completely unsupported by your arguments. You say "none of the 'safety technology' we've added in the last decade has worked.", but then go on to lament the deaths caused by rising vehicle weights, and distracted driving, primarily on cell phones.

But most of the safety tech introduced in the last 10 years (or at least that is much more prevalent in the last 10 years) are things like collision avoidance systems, mandatory backup cameras, lane change warnings, etc., that have nothing to do with weight nor distracted driving.

Yes, I agree increasing vehicle weights and distracted driving are a huge problem. But then saying "Adding more tech won't solve this. Only removing and limiting its use will roll back this trend." is a completely unwarranted conclusion.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by diggan on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:22AM (#41310587)
> This won't work. None of the "safety technology" we've added in the last decade has worked. Not that the individual subsystems don't work effectively on their own, but that the entire vehicle is becoming a less safe place.

It looks like this is a US-specific issue, which isn't really highlighted in your comment. In other countries, it seems like the "motor vehicle fatality rate" has decreased for the last decade, some years more than others. The three other countries I checked were Australia, Japan and Iceland, as those had comparable pages on Wikipedia as the one you linked: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22Motor+vehicle...

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by davidmurdoch on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:15AM (#41310523)
> None of the "safety technology" we've added in the last decade has worked

Forward Collision-Avoidance systems really great.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by dopylitty on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:54AM (#41310916)
Except they barely work for cars[0] and don’t work at all for pedestrians[1]

0: https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/09/braking-bad-automatic-emerg...

1: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26469713/iihs-testing-suv...

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by davidmurdoch on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:59AM (#41310969)
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by cmiller1 on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @11:00AM (#41310980)
I've experienced this in a Subaru CrossTrek, several times while driving down back roads it started beeping at me "OBSTACLE DETECTED" and then slammed on the brakes when there was nothing in front of me.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by davidmurdoch on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @12:03PM (#41311542)
Back roads meaning dirt roads? Could it be the cameras mistaking dust for an obstacle?
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by cmiller1 on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @08:06PM (#41315420)
Nope, just regular old paved winding back roads.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by jiveturkey on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:40AM (#41310770)
i disable mine. 100% false positives. agree though, great for the masses.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by davidmurdoch on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @11:01AM (#41311002)
You might be an aggressive driver. haha
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @04:18PM (#41313835)
Eh, phantom braking is definitely a problem. It's gotten better, for sure, but I've definitely had times where there was nothing within 1/4 mile in front of me on the highway and suddenly it slammed the brakes.

When I first got my Tesla in 2019, there was one specific overpass that I would go under during my commute that seemed to have a ~20% chance of triggering automatic emergency braking. I got into the habit of preparing to stomp the throttle which would override AEB.

Luckily, a software update came out a few months in that seemed to fix that specific case. Now, I've done 1,300 mile road trips that didn't have a single phantom braking incident.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by Workaccount2 on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:12AM (#41310487)
People just love trucks that are practically purpose built to kill pedestrians and motorcyclists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU

Thank you Ryan from Fortnine.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by NoMoreNicksLeft on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @11:40AM (#41311351)
Gigantic trucks save the lives of people stuck on the kidney waitlist.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @04:25PM (#41313913)
There are people that love high trucks like that and simply do not care that it makes their truck more dangerous to others just for their own aesthetic preferences. It's simply not their problem. Some would even claim the added danger is a feature that incentivizes others to stay out of their way.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by HPsquared on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @08:56AM (#41309812)
Couple of comments on that chart: 1. It doesn't account for miles travelled 2. I see a downward trend since the 1970s with a bit of variation and a recent "lockdown peak".

I'm just not seeing an increasing trend overall. There was certainly a notable increase from 2013 to 2016, but that's about all you could say. You'd need 2023-2024 data to see if the recent increase was due to lockdowns.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by JBorrow on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @09:00AM (#41309846)
At some level this is an almost uniquely American problem; see similar statistics here from Great Britain: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua..., Australia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i... which have been dropping rapidly since the 1970s. So, relative to other very similar countries, the U.S. is doing much worse.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by bfrog on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @09:14AM (#41309969)
These countries also presumably enforce stricter licensing laws, charge appropriately for driving urban tanks (American pick ups), and actually enforce some traffic laws with serious consequences not a slap on the wrist with inexpensive tickets.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by WinstonSmith84 on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:21AM (#41310573)
> But the bigger issue is distracted driving

Certainly right, but staying focused while driving in countries with a lot of speed traps is impossible. You put your limiter, move at a snail pace and it's truly boring (for experienced drivers - not experienced drivers will be alert and stressed and that's maybe good). As an experienced driver, you either fall asleep or you just use your smartphone or whatever

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by verzali on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @10:53AM (#41310898)
If you are seriously getting that bored when driving then I'm sorry, but you should not be on the road. You are a danger to everyone around you. It's incredible that you think you need to drive fast or you'll fall asleep.
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by AlexandrB on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @11:17AM (#41311146)
Crazy stuff. Why is there an expectation that driving should be "not boring"? How do you think people handled this boredom before smartphones?
Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by jcranmer on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @02:48PM (#41313028)
If you are tempted to fall asleep or distract yourself while driving, you are not an experienced driver. Part of the experience one needs to gain as a driver is how to keep the necessary focus for driving, or at the very least, recognizing that maintaining that focus is impossible and therefore not driving.

If driving the appropriate speed is difficult for you to do undistracted, then you need to find ways to improve your driving skills instead of blaming the law for saying that you're a bad driver.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by Der_Einzige on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @11:24AM (#41311218)
That chart doesn’t say what you think it says

Fatalities per mile and injuries per mile are down, and the safety/security systems are strictly net benefits. Americans are driving more than in the past and in more vehicles. The real issue is that Americans do t give a shit anymore, are distracted as hell, and in general trust in society has declined. Low trust societies have insane road cultures, and the decaying state of the average driver is a reflection on the decaying state of Anerica trust in society.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by MisterTea on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @11:21AM (#41311178)
> There's two main contributing factors, weight and distraction.

We cant ignore reckless drivers. Since COVID I noticed a large trend in people strait up not giving a damn about anyone and driving as fast and recklessly as they can. EVERY SINGLE DAY I see street racing on the highway in traffic, speeding, large SUV's bullying smaller cars, people chasing each other in either road rage incidents or racing, and yes swerving around as if they're the only one on the road while playing with phones - utterly insane behavior. I have to drive with eyes in the back of my head.

Just last week a co-worker witnessed someone driving over 100 MPH on a highway with a 50/55 MPH limit while throwing trash out the sunroof and then trying to squeeze between two cars that were in his royal highness' way. They didn't fit, side swiped one of the cars, lost control and caused a severe accident he was almost involved in.

The same week another coworker was forced off the highway by a big stupid jeep who he saw make eye contact with him but didn't care and forced him to swerve onto the grass shoulder.

What the hell is going on in these peoples heads? Why is there so much selfish bravado? Why all the bullying? Why are we forced to be victims to these clowns? Why is no one doing anything about this?

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by Der_Einzige on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @11:27AM (#41311237)
Were they a Nissan, dodge, or Chrysler driver? I’ve noticed drivers of these three brands are extra terrible, and the RAM 1500 has the highest (by far) DUI rate for any vehicle.

If you drive any of those brands I will treat you like a maniac, and I’m usually right.

Re:the US lays out a road safety plan that will see cars 'ta... by MisterTea on Wednesday August 21, 2024 @12:35PM (#41311882)
In my neck of the woods the obnoxious car crowd is comprised of slammed shit boxes which are mainly BMW followed by Infinity with a smattering of Honda and Lexus. The rest are morons with Mustangs/Chargers/Camaros - all the same car really and my friend calls all of them a Charlstamaro.

For the SUV crowd you have jacked up jeeps with "angry eye" body kits along with a mix of pickups from the major 3 and the asshats in Escalades.

Any BMW is to be avoided.