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Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by sbarre on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:41PM (#40899920)
There really was a bit of an enterprise gold rush for these gTLDs in the late 00s.

They saw .google and .mcdonalds and thought "we should have our own one of those"..

And I guess after a while of paying the non-trivial gTLD fees to ICANN, companies eventually looked at the ROI and realized they actually didn't need their own one of those...

Funny how different brands in the same industries figured it out many years before others did.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by hypeatei on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:46PM (#40899948)
It's crazy to me that a decision to buy your own gTLD would even be approved outside the most rich and tech literate companies. The evaluation fee alone is $185,000 USD and you have to pay quarterly fees too if I'm not mistaken.
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by bastawhiz on Sunday July 07, 2024 @04:39PM (#40900299)
For a company like Dodge (well, I guess their parent company) that's like selling 6-7 cars a quarter. Massive corporations look at numbers like $185,000 and don't even blink.
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by CBarkleyU on Sunday July 07, 2024 @06:28PM (#40901007)
Dodge is making 30k profit off of each car?
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by bastawhiz on Sunday July 07, 2024 @06:43PM (#40901108)
The higher end cars like Charger are hugely profitable (some with six figures of margin). They sold nearly fifty thousand of them in 2023.
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by aidenn0 on Sunday July 07, 2024 @06:52PM (#40901158)
I just priced a fully loaded Hellcat[1] Charger (even with stupid stuff like "real carbon fiber inserts" on the interior) on Dodges site, and it was $109 705. Unless you are proposing it costs less than $9.7k to build and transport one, how are they making six figures of margin?

1: "SRT® Hellcat Redeye Jailbreak" actually. I think the marketing department is staffed with 12 year olds.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by bastawhiz on Sunday July 07, 2024 @07:05PM (#40901251)
The SRT Demon starts at $96k and often sell for $225 and up
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by OptionOfT on Sunday July 07, 2024 @08:11PM (#40901562)
MSRP was $96k. Dealers would charge extra because... they forcefully injected and monopolized their position as being the only entity that can actually sell you the car.
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by DANmode on Sunday July 07, 2024 @07:03PM (#40901236)
If they’re trying to stay at product level, it possibly should be.
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by snowwrestler on Sunday July 07, 2024 @09:21PM (#40901884)
Let’s say it’s 7 cars a quarter, that is 28 cars in a year. To cover a $185,000 fee, they would need to be generating $6,607 profit per car. Seems doable?
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by 486sx33 on Sunday July 07, 2024 @06:21PM (#40900963)
Margins are a question but you can drop $150k on a single dodge diesel pickup
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by cogthrow on Sunday July 07, 2024 @04:42PM (#40900320)
> The evaluation fee alone is $185,000 USD and you have to pay quarterly fees too if I'm not mistaken.

$185k is a rounding error in the marketing budget of many companies

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by griftrejection on Sunday July 07, 2024 @04:43PM (#40900327)
If only there were a better way to deploy that capital. Oh well.
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by nickdothutton on Sunday July 07, 2024 @08:58PM (#40901778)
This is the answer. Same thing happened in the early-to-mid 90s. The corporate web site money didn’t come from the IT budget, it came from marketing. The money for the Leased Line Internet connection too, for all but the most R&D focussed companies in the UK. Corporate email for employees and (shudder) actual Internet access for them, often only came later.
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by ryan29 on Sunday July 07, 2024 @05:16PM (#40900498)
I think it can make sense for smaller companies as long as the costs aren't unbearable. There's value in being your own registry operator, especially when it comes to stuff like intellectual property claims, etc..

By being a registry instead of a registrant you get an extra layer of protection that helps to ensure your domain is untouchable. I think it makes a lot of sense to use for long term infrastructure if, again, the costs aren't prohibitive.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by seventyone on Sunday July 07, 2024 @08:25PM (#40901614)
Quarterly fees are ~$15k

The domain for my work project was over $400k. Buying a gTLD would have been way cheaper, but wouldn't have managed to get us the cool domain we have.

edit: on the other hand, we're hostage to a country who could ruin everything. I guess someone above my pay grade rolled the dice

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by bombcar on Monday July 08, 2024 @09:15AM (#40905146)
People thought it was going to be like the AOL keywords of yore - but it was already so late in the game that nobody gives a shit, you either use google to search for bing or you just don't care.

There's probably ten or twenty domains (not counting my own or my work's) that I can type from memory, the rest I just search for.

The other killer is that "clownfarts.com" looks like a website but www.mcdonalds looks like a typo, even to non-tech people who don't understand any TLD besides the big three.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by silisili on Sunday July 07, 2024 @04:12PM (#40900121)
This isn't exactly accurate. Google and McDonalds didn't have some early exclusive launch. There were hundreds that launched at around the same time, when ICANN opened the process, and not in the 00s.

I'm too lazy to research them all here, but I recognize a number of them here from their initial applications, which would have all happened at the same time as the two you mentioned.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by sbarre on Sunday July 07, 2024 @06:56PM (#40901195)
Yeah sorry I had the timeline off... I also wasn't implying any exclusivity but I remember when these were first announced/marketed that those two domains were prevalent?
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by akira2501 on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:45PM (#40899940)
They all have the same oeuvre that typo squatted and oddly hyphenated domains have and immediately make me suspicious just looking at them. Which is bad enough for the commercial purposes most of these were probably purchased for, but I can only imagine that they would be exceptionally useless for sending emails or other communications.

Another "ghost mining town" left behind from the wild west that was the first decades of the commercial internet.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by brifsttar on Sunday July 07, 2024 @04:00PM (#40900039)
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by sbarre on Sunday July 07, 2024 @06:55PM (#40901188)
Yeah sorry my timeline was off there... I knew someone who worked on a gTLD platform and I mistakenly thought it was while I was at a certain job but it was the job after.

Thanks for the correction!

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by Ekaros on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:48PM (#40899962)
I have a customer with one of these vanity gTLDs. And always go to wonder why... Oh it is cool with all the subdomains and services, but still... Is it really worth the money for profile of company it is... Which is not exactly high profile or known...
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by paulddraper on Sunday July 07, 2024 @04:39PM (#40900302)
A. It wasn't the 00s.

B. Much better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

As it turns out, they didn't need it, and lost a bit of their marketing budget.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by DidYaWipe on Sunday July 07, 2024 @06:40PM (#40901092)
This whole scam was so disappointing, although par for ICANN's course. When we heard that they were opening up TLDs, I thought that finally limited TLDs would be abolished.

But nope. ICANN turned the whole thing into another disgraceful money grab... taken to a new level. Now that it has flopped, we can just hope that someday we'll be able to end a domain name with any valid string.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by cut3 on Sunday July 07, 2024 @06:43PM (#40901107)
Ive always wondered why a tld cant just be anything after the last period
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by userbinator on Sunday July 07, 2024 @08:07PM (#40901542)
Mainly to control the resource usage of the root servers, I believe.

DNS is hierarchical, and I don't think devolving into a semi-flat namespace is a good idea at all.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by avidiax on Sunday July 07, 2024 @11:29PM (#40902379)
This isn't anymore "flat" that then TLD nameservers like com., net., etc. It's just one level down.

ICANN could certainly afford to run servers for a "flat" TLD system.

The problem for ICANN is that it will sour relations with all the existing TLD registrars, and there are security problems with allowing any TLD. For example, I might be able to redirect traffic for a particular local network host name (e.g. "router", "fileserver", "raspberrypi", "linksys", etc.) to an external IP address of my choosing. Or I can make something that is normally a local file (e.g. "cmd.exe") and make it also a valid hostname.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by DidYaWipe on Monday July 08, 2024 @12:16AM (#40902566)
"I might be able to redirect traffic for a particular local network host name (e.g. "router", "fileserver", "raspberrypi", "linksys", etc.) to an external IP address of my choosing"

Interesting idea. Can you give an example of how that would actually happen? Also the cmd.exe one. So what if it's a valid hostname?

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by avidiax on Monday July 08, 2024 @03:36AM (#40903352)
If the search domain list is empty or contains "." or "", or the search algorithm is flawed (maybe an IoT device), trying to connect might lead to a bare TLD lookup.

CMD.exe is either a program accepts either a filename or URL in the same context (VLC does this), or the user is confused about the URL/file distinction. The .ZIP TLD was concerning for this reason.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by DidYaWipe on Monday July 08, 2024 @02:21PM (#40907864)
Thanks for the reply. Maybe I just don't know enough about all the scenarios. I don't know what "the domain search list" is or what user action would involve it.

I was looking more for specific dangerous use cases; for example, "The user types such-and-such in the address bar, and instead of getting this he gets that." In other words, how is this a problem in actual practice.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by avidiax on Monday July 08, 2024 @02:33PM (#40908011)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_domain

An example:

The attacker posts a message to a forum, chatroom, etc. like:

Download: 2024YourCompanySalaryData.zip

When the user clicks "2024YourCompanySalaryData.zip", it is actually a domain name, and loads that website. This website then asks you to enter your corp credentials, or executes a 0-day on the victim's browser, etc.

The forum doesn't need to allow file downloads (i.e. a real .zip might not even work), and even if it does, client or server side virus scanning doesn't have a .zip to inspect.

The user is less wary of phishing, having never seen the .zip TLD. They assume they are downloading a file.

https://blog.talosintelligence.com/zip-tld-information-leak/

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by DidYaWipe on Monday July 08, 2024 @04:05PM (#40909039)
Thanks. I don't really see how that's worse than today, where a bad actor can do exactly the same thing in a forum post. Typically the post shows the text you enter, but can go to any URL.

In terms of the user going to a site instead of a zip file: If a user is willing to unpack and run a random file he downloaded and give it credentials to something... what's the difference? Not being argumentative, but this seems like a stretch.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by avidiax on Monday July 08, 2024 @06:02PM (#40910225)
The difference is that many forums or chat programs will automatically linkify valid hostnames/URLs.

Now "foo.zip" is a valid URL.

You could have a forum or chat program that you think is quite safe, since it doesn't allow file uploads, and doesn't allow arbitrary link text, and this would upend that.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by brookst on Sunday July 07, 2024 @11:41PM (#40902432)
Not just ICANN, but how many technical systems are optimized for having a few hundred TLDs? Going to millions / billions seems like it’s likely to uncover a lot of implementation shortcuts.

Not necessarily a reason not to do it, just a reason to be a little careful in rollout.

Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by lifthrasiir on Monday July 08, 2024 @01:34AM (#40902857)
Technically speaking, it is possible to use an approach similar to IDN to provide a flat namespace without actually making the root zone itself flat. Namely, an arbitrary TLD .abcdefgh can be translated to .xx--abc.def.gh--yy internally if .abcdefgh itself results in NXDOMAIN. Each level would then have less than 10^5 labels at worst.
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by DidYaWipe on Sunday July 07, 2024 @06:52PM (#40901160)
As far as I know, there's no technical reason. I've seen people raise trademarks as an issue, but that's a red herring. There are already trademark-dispute resolution procedures in place.
Re:ICANN's list of abandoned vanity TLDs, which now has abou... by estebarb on Sunday July 07, 2024 @11:55PM (#40902480)
After seeing that list it doesn't surprise me anymore that companies like Avianca filled for bankruptcy. I'm sure they paid for than domain per year more than what they spend now in customer support.