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Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by duffpkg on Thursday July 04, 2024 @05:01PM (#40878016)
All of the quotes and interactions I had with the local solar installers were reminiscent of the used car lot if not outright fraud. I was able to do what was permissible myself and a regular licensed electrician did the rest. The equipment is UL listed. There was some learning curve but I found the diysolarforum.com to be a pretty good resource to learn what I didn't know. I ran the whole setup standalone for about 6 months before switching the house over to it. The only problem that happened was a loose battery cable connection which the BMS and inverter alerted to and handled correctly.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by iamthemonster on Thursday July 04, 2024 @07:33PM (#40878862)
This approach may vary by country. Not a single sparky in Australia will sign off on someone else's solar/battery install.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by fouc on Thursday July 04, 2024 @08:29PM (#40879065)
Isn't there a distinction between the house wiring and the solar/battery stuff?

P.S. I've never heard of sparky being used as slang for an electrician, sounds very aussie.

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by selcuka on Thursday July 04, 2024 @08:51PM (#40879145)
> P.S. I've never heard of sparky being used as slang for an electrician, sounds very aussie.

When I moved into a new house in Australia I asked the real estate agent if I could extend the fence, and he said I'd need a cheapie to do that.

I said ok but scratched my head as to why it needs to be cheap, only to find out later what he actually said was chippy, slang for a carpenter.

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by marcus_holmes on Thursday July 04, 2024 @10:13PM (#40879411)
Chippies are also known as "wood butchers" apparently. Amused me ;)
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by old_hat on Thursday July 04, 2024 @09:41PM (#40879314)
Yeah, it's all fun and games until you're at Macca's and someone says, "Oi, can you pass me a chippy?" and they get real confused when you go find a carpenter.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by fennecbutt on Saturday July 06, 2024 @07:18PM (#40894066)
Maccas is nz, maccies is Aus
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by selcuka on Saturday July 06, 2024 @11:09PM (#40895000)
It's definitely Maccas in AU. Maccies must be a UK thing.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by Scoundreller on Friday July 05, 2024 @01:18AM (#40880011)
Next you’ll need a roofie
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by unwind on Friday July 05, 2024 @03:03AM (#40880388)
Why, though? Is there some kind of requirement that only fully trained carpenters can build fences?
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by roygbiv2 on Friday July 05, 2024 @04:24AM (#40880831)
Just about everything in Australia needs a license to do. Even down to network cabling.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by gambiting on Friday July 05, 2024 @07:18AM (#40881785)
The rule is - if it's going inside the wall, only a licenced electrician can do it. Yes it also extends to things like speaker or HDMI cables. It's mad.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by qubitcoder on Friday July 05, 2024 @09:47AM (#40882665)
Mad, indeed. It's hard to imagine those rules are followed, especially for speaker wires and HDMI cables.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by whatevaa on Friday July 05, 2024 @01:15PM (#40884430)
HDMI cables? Sounds like protectionism. Invent rules to make yourself more work.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by LorenPechtel on Friday July 05, 2024 @01:53PM (#40884681)
Aren't there power delivery versions of HDMI?

I can understand requiring a license for any power wires behind walls.

I could also see the possibility that it's just an old law that doesn't consider data-only cables which don't have the safety issues that wires carrying power do.

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by gambiting on Friday July 05, 2024 @05:11PM (#40886055)
It's definitely an old law that never took data cables into account, but the current interpretation is that any cable that carries electrical current has to be installed and certified by an electrician.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by whatevaa on Sunday July 07, 2024 @02:28AM (#40895683)
While HDMI can provide a tiny bit of power and there are active cables for signal boosting, HDMI was never meant for power delivery. You might be mixing it with HDMI with Ethetnet.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by throwaway81523 on Thursday July 04, 2024 @08:53PM (#40879151)
Sparky=electrician is common in the US too. I had previously thought of it as meaning a radio operator e.g. on a ship.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by soci on Friday July 05, 2024 @01:57AM (#40880132)
in Spain we call them “chispas”, which literally means sparks. An electrician is someone who knows the home electrical wiring stuff, while a chispas is someone who is skilled in repairing home appliances.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by happymellon on Friday July 05, 2024 @03:00AM (#40880372)
We use sparky in the UK for an electrician too.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by lelanthran on Friday July 05, 2024 @03:20AM (#40880463)
> P.S. I've never heard of sparky being used as slang for an electrician, sounds very aussie.

I'm surprised to find out it's aussie slang; I always thought it was slang local to South Africa :-/

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by Lio on Friday July 05, 2024 @06:00AM (#40881401)
We say the chippie in the UK too.

We also use sparkie for electrician.

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by SideburnsOfDoom on Friday July 05, 2024 @10:37AM (#40883178)
It's local to UK and more recent British colonies

ZA and AUS included. USA less so.

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by mrexroad on Friday July 05, 2024 @03:52PM (#40885469)
In the US, sparky is common slang electrician among the trades, but far loss-so for end customers who are looking to hire one.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by nicoburns on Thursday July 04, 2024 @08:48PM (#40879137)
It will, but I suspect this will get a lot easier everywhere as more of the problem gets packaged as units that you can just buy off the shelf (and the prices of such units come down).
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by Arrath on Friday July 05, 2024 @03:32PM (#40885344)
I'm currently in a pickle in this regard, as my new house has solar on Net Metering, but no ATS or battery. While its nice to only pay the base connection fee, I still go dark when the line power does.

I'd love to add at the very least an ATS to keep my fridge and freezer going when the power goes out during the day, if not a battery but I have little to no documentation on the existing solar install, so i'm reaching out to the county to see if permits have any info. Fun times!

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by GaggiX on Thursday July 04, 2024 @05:23PM (#40878158)
What voltage are you running your solar strings at? I was wondering what would happen if the loose cable was a cable from the solar panels instead of the low voltage battery.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by cyberax on Thursday July 04, 2024 @06:12PM (#40878485)
If you want a DIY-friendly option, it's best to look towards DC optimizers. They are installed on each panel and they provide a steady 48V output. They also do MPPT tracking on the panel level, so you get the best possible performance if you have some shading.

Unlike microinverters that are notoriously unreliable, DC optimizers so far have excellent long-term reliability.

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by nanomonkey on Friday July 05, 2024 @03:24AM (#40880478)
Are you suggesting using a DC Optimizer from your solar panels to charge 48V batteries directly? This would be interesting. It's the first I've heard of optimizers being used for anything other than prior to an inverter.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by cyberax on Friday July 05, 2024 @01:49PM (#40884648)
You absolutely can do that. You still need a charging controller and a BMS, obviously. But you can avoid the AC round-tripping.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by nanomonkey on Friday July 05, 2024 @04:21PM (#40885658)
Nice, the 48V batteries I have already have BMS's...any suggestion for a nominal 48V DC optimizer and charge controller?
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by cyberax on Friday July 05, 2024 @11:11PM (#40887931)
Tigo is known to work. I've heard that SolarEdge DC Optimizers don't work without a SolarEdge inverter connected to them.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by duffpkg on Thursday July 04, 2024 @05:31PM (#40878207)
The panel strings are at ~500v so there are safety, fusing and grounding considerations. Pretty common electrical equipment and cable is rated for use at 600v. There are special locking water resistant connectors for solar panels called MC4.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by GaggiX on Thursday July 04, 2024 @05:40PM (#40878281)
Are the hybrid inverters you are using be able to detect arc faults (in series) from the strings? Running 500V DC is probably by far the most dangerous thing in your setup, fortunately your solar panels are mounted on the groud.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by grecy on Thursday July 04, 2024 @08:47PM (#40879131)
> All of the quotes and interactions I had with the local solar installers were reminiscent of the used car lot if not outright fraud.

I had exactly the same experience. They absolutely would not tell me the actual system cost, only how much I would save on my current bill per month. It felt exactly like a car salesman only talking about monthly payments, and it was horrible.

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by lazide on Thursday July 04, 2024 @11:53PM (#40879709)
Yup. I’ve (US) also talked to a few local ones to just see if they had a couple panels I could buy off them for close to wholesale for a personal project - which if they were actually involved in installation would be trivial - and just got blank stares.

They were clearly just doing lead generation for some other company they had no direct connection with, and didn’t even have any idea who to talk to that could even answer my question.

I had way better luck just looking online and paying shipping, which is absurd given how they were presenting themselves.

So not even as good as a used car salesman on an actual car lot, more like door to door used car salesman.

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by Workaccount2 on Friday July 05, 2024 @10:16AM (#40882951)
These companies are the equivalent of people who received a free product to review and then post a referral link for it in the details. Of course, they glow about how amazing the product is and how you should drop everything and buy it.
Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by LorenPechtel on Friday July 05, 2024 @02:11PM (#40884825)
Yeah. Talked to a couple of solar companies. They were utterly focused on costs vs utility costs and very opaque about how that was being modeled. And it was based on the rules back then--which of course could not hold. Net metering is a huge subsidy that is already being walked back.

The true value of solar or wind is the cost of the fuel it saves. Nothing more. Even if his numbers come true there's a big problem--bad weather could deplete your batteries. You want to turn to the electric company in that case? You are once again in the situation that the value is only the fuel.

Re:Batteries: How cheap can they get? by m463 on Friday July 05, 2024 @08:15PM (#40887208)
I think solar credits works into things too. People trying to get a long-term revenue stream.