News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by loteck on Monday June 10, 2024 @07:55PM (#40640713)
Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C...

(I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man)

Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by transpute on Monday June 10, 2024 @08:03PM (#40640752)
Thanks for the link.

> As best I can tell, Apple does not have explicit plans to announce when your data is going off-device for to Private Compute. You won't opt into this, you won't necessarily even be told it's happening. It will just happen. Magically.

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by azinman2 on Monday June 10, 2024 @09:29PM (#40641303)
You would have to activate a clearly LLM-powered software feature and have internet access. I don't know if settings will appear to disable this, but you could imagine it would be the case. This isn't just siphoning off all your data at random.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by transpute on Monday June 10, 2024 @09:34PM (#40641337)
Would Spotlight be considered a "clearly LLM-powered software feature"? Will there be an option for "non-AI Spotlight"? Disabling dozens of software features, or identifying all apps which might use LLM services, is a daunting proposition. It would be good to have a PCC kill switch, which makes opt-in usage meaningful, rather than forced.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by chefandy on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:19PM (#40641600)
Privacy "consent" is fundamentally broken. We've moved from "we're doing whatever the fuck we want" to "we're doing whatever the fuck we want, but on paper it's whatever the fuck you expressly asked for, whether you wanted to or not."
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by wmf on Monday June 10, 2024 @09:42PM (#40641381)
If you have no threat model and want to opt out of random features just because... you probably shouldn't use Apple products at all. Or Google or Microsoft.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by transpute on Monday June 10, 2024 @09:46PM (#40641404)
For years, Apple has a documented set of security policies to disable off-device processing (e.g iCloud, Siri), via MDM / Apple Configurator. Apple also published details needed for enterprise network filtering to limit Apple telemetry, if all you want from Apple servers are software security updates and notifications.

With a hardened configuration, Apple has world-class device security. In time, remote PCC may prove as robust against real-world threats. Until then, it would be good to retain on-device security policy and choice for remote computation.

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by sneak on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @01:27AM (#40642683)
Apple does not publish details to limit telemetry. Nowhere in MDM or in their docs do they tell you that you can safely block xp.apple.com (telemetry) but not gs.apple.com (boot ticket signing server for updates).
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by transpute on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @03:05AM (#40643401)
Thanks, both are listed as required for software updates, https://support.apple.com/en-us/101555

Is there a good non-Apple reference for the functions performed by their servers?

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by sneak on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @01:26AM (#40642677)
Almost certainly you will be able to disable it entirely and hide the UI to re-enable it via provisioning profiles via Apple Configurator 2 or MDM.

This is actually what you have to do now if you don’t want Siri and Mail to leak your address book to Apple.

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by transpute on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @03:08AM (#40643421)
> if you don’t want Siri and Mail to leak your address book to Apple.

By disabling Siri and iCloud, or other policies?

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by onel on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @04:00AM (#40643729)
I think the main reason might be the on-device AI is fairly limited features wise. For Apple to actually offer something useful they would need to switch between device/server constantly and they don't want to limit the product by allowing users to disable going to a server.

With OpenAI calls is different because the privacy point is stronger

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by brigandish on Monday June 10, 2024 @09:15PM (#40641200)
These two tweets stand out for me:

> Ok there are probably half a dozen more technical details in the blog post. It’s a very thoughtful design. Indeed, if you gave an excellent team a huge pile of money and told them to build the best “private” cloud in the world, it would probably look like this.

and

> And of course, keep in mind that super-spies aren’t your biggest adversary. For many people your biggest adversary is the company who sold you your device/software. This PCC system represents a real commitment by Apple not to “peek” at your data. That’s a big deal.

I'd prefer things stay on the device but at least this is a big commitment in the right direction - or in the wrong direction but done better than their competitors, I'm not sure which.

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by BenFranklin100 on Monday June 10, 2024 @09:53PM (#40641446)
If he really wanted no one to be reading his tweets he’d be using BluSky or Masto…
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by unshavedyak on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:31PM (#40641664)
Is there more to that thread? I can't read it if it exists, not sure if that is what the parent is talking about? But i don't have a Twitter account anymore, so maybe it's locked?
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by capybara_2020 on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:56PM (#40641801)
Without being logged into X, you can only see the first post in a thread.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by jjav on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @03:17AM (#40643489)
Not even that anymore, all links show is "Something went wrong, but don’t fret — let’s give it another shot."

Impossible to see any content.

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by AnonC on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @04:07AM (#40643761)
That's likely due to tracking prevention or protection by your browser because X really, really wants to track you. If you disable the tracking protection and related settings, you may be able to see the single tweet.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by qingcharles on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:44PM (#40641733)
I don't know what you're seeing. It's a very long thread. Exceptionally good take on the whole thing. Apple has gone way out of their way to try and sell this thing. Above and beyond compared to how I imagine Microsoft or Google would have tackled this.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by zooq_ai on Monday June 10, 2024 @11:33PM (#40641996)
If your AI model sucks, you have to use other gimmicks to lure customers. That's marketing 101.

Create irrational fear about piracy, push privacy focused products and profits as the sheeple promptly fall for this

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by astrange on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @03:29AM (#40643561)
I've never seen someone use "sheeple" in an anti-privacy argument.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by zooq_ai on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @12:49PM (#40648557)
the most successful sheeple operation is the one the sheeple and the entire world is completely oblivious of it.

jokes aside, this is no different from people selling bunker beds, gold, ammunition, crypto, vpns. It is specifically for the set of gullible people who think they and their data is so important. Reality (except for 10,000 people or so) is, most lives and their 'precious' data is worthless. (I'm not talking about SSN, Bank Accounts -- those are well protected by tech cos HN seem to hate on)

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by rmm on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:41PM (#40641724)
Ok that made me spill my coffee.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by theshrike79 on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @04:26AM (#40643867)
https://infosec.exchange/ has a ton of infosec people, big names.

https://ioc.exchange/@matthew_d_green - And he's there BTW :)

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by Andrex on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @11:03AM (#40647021)
Or maybe (gasp!) a blog?
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by tantalor on Monday June 10, 2024 @09:57PM (#40641471)
> nobody can read his tweets without a X account

False; works fine for me logged out or incognito..

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by windexh8er on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:26PM (#40641631)
No, you can't see the thread. You can see the first post, but X took this away [0].

Nitter still works [1]. Also Threadreader (as can be seen linked in Green's tweet).

[0] https://tweetdelete.net/resources/view-twitter-without-accou... [1] https://nitter.poast.org/matthew_d_green

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by unshavedyak on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:38PM (#40641705)
Also can't see the thread.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by steg132 on Monday June 10, 2024 @09:59PM (#40641483)
I’m on iOS. I can’t see the thread. Incognito or normally.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by OneLeggedCat on Monday June 10, 2024 @11:13PM (#40641877)
False
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by firecall on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:07PM (#40641530)
Threads also is popular.

Probably the mainstream Twitter alternative at this point?

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by jxi on Monday June 10, 2024 @11:46PM (#40642083)
Threads is far from mainstream and just filled with spam and OnlyFans spammers at this point.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by fragmede on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @02:03AM (#40642972)
weird, i get a bunch of music and programming stuff on my Threads feed. it's not very deep, but what's on the surface is quite nice and not a bunch of almost-porn. Twitters become half porn though
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by threeseed on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @03:42AM (#40643625)
By every metric Threads is mainstream:

a) Top 10 App Store charts in every country.

b) Heavily promoted through Facebook and Instagram.

c) DAUs are higher than X.

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by JimDabell on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @10:55AM (#40646891)
That sounds far more like Twitter than Threads. I get so much spam on Twitter now that I hit rate limits reporting it all.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by firecall on Thursday June 13, 2024 @07:43PM (#40676097)
There is a lot of that.

But there is far more.

Kara Swisher is on Threads, for instance.

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by wslh on Monday June 10, 2024 @10:50PM (#40641760)
Beyond all the hardware complexity, another attack vector is the network infrastructure.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by astrange on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @03:30AM (#40643566)
That is covered in the article.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @12:31AM (#40642360)
"I wonder if Matt realises nobody can read his tweets without a X account?"

https://nitter.poast.org/matthew_d_green/status/180029189724...

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by Tepix on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @02:21AM (#40643108)
Thanks. I wonder how long that service is going to last.
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by dmix on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @10:23AM (#40646500)
its been around a loong time
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by vaylian on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @01:38AM (#40642789)
> (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man)

He actually has an active Mastodon account, but this particular story is not on there (yet): https://ioc.exchange/@matthew_d_green

Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by Tepix on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @02:23AM (#40643124)
Inactive since 2 months
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by vaylian on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @11:32AM (#40647447)
You were right until a couple of hours ago. Then this happened: https://ioc.exchange/@matthew_d_green/112597917470493480
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by stavros on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @02:38AM (#40643217)
He's not wrong that, given that you want to do this, this is the best way. The alternative would be to not do it at all (though an opt-out would have been good).
Re:Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in t... by gvurrdon on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @09:22AM (#40645888)