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Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:18PM (#40555723)
At least as far as Hacker News is concerned, I'd call htmx way more marketed. It has hundreds of HN submissions in the past year alone [0] including one that broke 1000 points. Compare that to Hotwire which is sitting at less than 30 submissions in the past year [1], the most popular of which is this one.

[0] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&prefix=true&query...

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&prefix=true&query...

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by creativenolo on Sunday June 02, 2024 @03:28PM (#40556635)
In fairness to the commenter, I don’t know either of the projects but htmx’s _page_ is way less marketing focused that hotwire’s page. The hotwire page’s marketing is crazy: ‘turbo’, ‘stimulus’, ‘strada’… Crazy but yet commendable.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by runjake on Sunday June 02, 2024 @07:45PM (#40558037)
Aren’t those just product names? They don’t strike me as crazy.

Hotwire and htmx both look like good products to me.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by creativenolo on Monday June 03, 2024 @05:16AM (#40560723)
Yes, they are. And the product names are an artefact of the marketing effort. By ‘crazy’ I mean ‘crazy good / near over the top’ effort marketing.

Agree they both look good products. But put the websites side by side and ask what page has had more marketing effort put into it and I’ll think you’ll see the commenter point.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by carom on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:29PM (#40555804)
I guess it is that HTMX just feels like one guy's side project. Granted he is great at posting. TFA feels like 37 Signals took the same idea and is trying really hard to sell it.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by artur_roszczyk on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:29PM (#40556235)
Live views in Phoenix were way before both.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:35PM (#40556289)
But not before Intercooler.js (the predecessor to HTMX) or Turbolinks (the predecessor to Hotwire). This is an idea that has been developing for as long as the web itself, I don't think it's important to assign inventorship of the concept as a whole to any one project. They've all been learning from each other and innovating in their own ways.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by basch on Sunday June 02, 2024 @03:33PM (#40556667)
Meteor, Ember, Derby were the "next big thing" 10 years ago.

Principles of Rich Web Applications (rauchg.com) Nov 4, 2014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8559519

https://www.infoworld.com/article/2612250/application-develo...

https://shiggyenterprises.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/picking-a...

https://blog.emberjs.com/inside-fastboot-the-road-to-server-...

It's not just that the idea has been developed over and over, but it is constantly hyped as a return to the golden past, and yet never gets the love that new client side spa messes end up attracting.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by inopinatus on Sunday June 02, 2024 @07:02PM (#40557810)
Pjax, 2011. We can probably keep going back further. No-one has a monopoly on this idea.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by recursivedoubts on Monday June 03, 2024 @12:16AM (#40559281)
htmx was a mashup of $.load(), pjax and angular 1 style attributes (very different conceptual model but I saw how angular used custom attributes and thought that looked better than the JavaScript api I had cooked up)

later on I figured out that what I was doing was generalizing hypermedia controls, but that took me years to figure out.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by rawoke083600 on Sunday June 02, 2024 @10:03PM (#40558738)
why does this matter ?
[dead]
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:44PM (#40555916)
First off, name calling.

Second, I actually thought the same as you but digging into the history I don't see any records of a public release of Hotwire until December of 2020, and HTMX was public in May of that year. Both commit logs and first HN submissions are in agreement on those dates, but if you have other evidence I'm open to it.

I'm pretty sure what I was thinking of was actually Turbolinks:

https://github.com/turbolinks/turbolinks

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by joshmanders on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:52PM (#40555984)
Htmx is the successor of Intercooler.js, which is like 10 years old already. https://github.com/bigskysoftware/intercooler-js
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:59PM (#40556034)
As noted by @madeofpalk [0], Hotwire is the successor of Turbolinks, which dates back to at least 2012 [1].

That said, I'm not particularly interested in litigating who inspired who. Both libraries are neat and have developed in parallel for ten years. That's cool!

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40555941

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4577169

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by stavros on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:15PM (#40556151)
For what it's worth, I mentioned HTMX to a Ruby developer friend, and his reaction was "oh, like Turbolinks", so I think the mindshare was probably there first. That having been said, HTMX is my preferred way of making dynamic frontends now. I've never been a React developer, but I've always found SPAs way, way overused.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:22PM (#40556192)
Yeah, Turbolinks was huge throughout the Rails era—I remember it even being part of the random beginner tutorials that I did back in the day. I only ever heard of intercooler.js after htmx was announced.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by madeofpalk on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:48PM (#40555941)
And then yes, Hotwire is just the next iteration of turbolinks.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:10PM (#40556115)
Ah, yep, that accounts for my sense that I was using this back in 2012! Thanks!
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by Affric on Sunday June 02, 2024 @08:19PM (#40558199)
His mastery of millennial style memes is so rich. You can tell he just believes he is right and everyone else is dumb but he’s just “in it for the lols”.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by recursivedoubts on Monday June 03, 2024 @12:18AM (#40559291)
I definitely don’t think everyone else is dumb, or that htmx is right for everything, or particularly novel.

I do enjoy the lols I will admit that, hopefully as much at my own expense as anyone

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by Affric on Monday June 03, 2024 @06:39AM (#40561290)
A bit presumptuous of me. Maybe it's just me that thinks you're smarter than everyone else.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by worthless-trash on Sunday June 02, 2024 @11:06PM (#40558990)
I don't know _htmx personally, but I think he's more than willing to poke fun at those heavily invested in technology that is overkill for their needs. He most definitely is poking fun and laughing at the current mindset of javascript culture.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by whiskeymikey on Sunday June 02, 2024 @11:25PM (#40559058)
What’s TFA?
[dead]
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by edanm on Monday June 03, 2024 @04:48AM (#40560572)
This is how I've always understood it.

Not pejorative btw - just a phrase to refer to the current article.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Monday June 03, 2024 @12:30AM (#40559357)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19781756

A good thread for understanding the different ways people think of it. I always go with @speg's interpretation, because the pejorative meaning just isn't used that frequently on HN:

> I tend to rethink of it as "the featured article".

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by arp242 on Monday June 03, 2024 @09:07AM (#40562282)
Turbo is more or less a continuation of Turbolinks, which has been around for ages. The Turbo repo goes back to 2015 (htmx starts in 2020), but Turbolinks is many years older. Of course there have been other "htmx-like" frameworks before; who even knows who or what was first at this point?

I don't think "feels like 37 Signals took the same idea and is trying really hard to sell it" is very fair (I've never seen them try to "sell it" at all, much less "very hard"). Regardless, you're allowed to "steal" ideas.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by ranger_danger on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:45PM (#40555920)
I'm curious as to what people think is the appropriate amount of time to wait before reposting the same story.

I know people complain about any and all reposts in the first place (https://xkcd.com/1053), but obviously there should be a priority on teaching people things they didn't already know instead of punishing people that never read old news.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:48PM (#40555949)
You may have noted this from my links, but just in case—when I say the htmx has a lot of submissions I'm not referring to duplicate submissions, I'm referring to dozens of different submissions of different projects using or adjacent to htmx.

Re: the meta question, dang's policy that he repeats a lot is that reposts are fine every year or so [0]. Individuals may obviously disagree, but that's the rule that's actually enforced.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40523838

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by benhurmarcel on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:42PM (#40556353)
Personally I also find value in those posts even if knew about those technologies before. I often find interesting and up-to-date information or opinions in the comments.